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organic farming

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    At that, there will be many lowland running to it.



  • Posts: 4,503 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Didn't the points system go against a hill/livestock farmer? I know the current senator is not a friend.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,587 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    A lot of lowland farms are below 50acres, remember on a similar sized lowland farm you will still achieve 2/3 of that payment maybe more. On a smaller holding you organics payment might only be less than 5k and your output will reduce. For a hill farm output may not substantially reduce and even if it dose margin is miniscule

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭tractorporn


    Points were not implemented in the last tranche, everyone who applied was taken in regardless of enterprise type. I suspect that the next tranche will be the same, with even a few tweaks, like higher max payments rates probably over 100Ha and a lower min stocking rate, probably to mirror ANC stocking rates.


    Pippa is pushing for these changes so that it encourages larges chucks of hill farmers to join so that she can say she got a the area in organics up to 4/5% singlehandedly.



  • Posts: 4,503 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That could be worth looking at, might be simpler than an environmental scheme.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭tractorporn


    Yeah and should fill the requirements of the eco scheme as well.


    There's talk that the double funding issue that Bass (I think it was Bass who mentioned it) will be sorted in the next round of CAP which should see double payments for organics and the next GLAs/REPS scheme on the same ground allowed.



  • Posts: 4,503 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Is there a limit to the amount of hectares that are paid on in organics? I wonder is commonage disqualified? Really the only thing between me and being organic now is non certified hay, feed and licks but they're solvable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,587 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    If they get 4-5% if the land Ares into organics it will swallow the 250million in the scheme

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,587 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    At present you are paid full rate 170/ha on 60ha above that it is 30/ha. No commage I imagine is not included unless all shareholders are organic and maybe not even then

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭tractorporn


    Yes the upper limit atm is 60ha after that the payment drops to €30/ha so nothing really. Commonage can be used with the right paperwork but you won't get an organic payment for it as it stands



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭tractorporn


    That's what she wants, her target is 55,000ha into the new scheme but I don't think we will see the colour of that especially as the payment should be increased for existing farmers as well as new entrants



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,993 ✭✭✭endainoz


    Would be happy to see that alright, have ten hectares in GLAS in LIPP that I don't get an organic payment for.

    I'm not sure would I hold my breath though, I think the push will be to get more people into organics overall and the two certification bodies will be delighted to get more annual fees from new entrants.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,587 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    But you will kit get people in unless the payments increase

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,993 ✭✭✭endainoz


    It was oversubscribed three years ago, lots of lads felt like they were burned and didn't apply again the most recent time. 3 years ago it was opened with dairy and tillage lads in mind for priority. I think if the restrictions for entry were relaxed, then you'd have plenty applying for it. Other factors for the relaxed stocking density for hill farmers would make thing a lot easier too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,767 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Absent here for a while and reading back the comments over the last few weeks is interesting. Glas is gone and good riddance to it. The main question is, will new eco schemes be allowed overlap with organic. It also depends on how much the payment per Ha is risen in organic.

    Fair play to Pippa Hackett for pushing it on. Nigel Reneghan has done a great job leading the IFA Organic Task Force. He has disturbed a few and the green monster, envy has risen. If we, as farmers, really start engaging in biodiversity and carbon sequestration, I think we'll easily mange the CO2 targets. That's the train that's oncoming, farmers can engage in a myriad of ways. Going organic is just one option. There may be little difference in produce price but inputs will be considerably lowered.

    Their is a Teagasc Organic Webinar on tillage tonight at 7.30pm. You have to preregister. Also dairy farm walk on the 3rd Nov in Wexford.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,587 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    There is definitely a change in climate change thinking coming. I think there is a restructure coming in 2030. It will s now openly recognized that wester European beef is way more carbon friendly than beef from the rest of the world. I think they are re-evaluating it and it is 2/3 of the carbon footprint of the Us not to mind Brazil. Ireland is lower than that again because our hedgerows and grass based production.

    In fact if we changed all our arable land to tillage and horticulture it might be a backward step as it would lead to hedgerow removal( or severe pruning at least) and a much higher spray usage mainly because of our wet moist climate.

    When you take the methane cycle on grassland into account and it possible to finish cattle to 300-350 kg carcase weights on grass and about half a ton of ration and that the includes the calf phase.

    Multi species swards may be our saviour. Winter finishing may be a problem

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,157 ✭✭✭White Clover


    Will it be a case of going back to go forward, Bass? What I mean is will we see a return of the British Friesian that will finish off silage only at 24 months. If the dairy herd is going to be curtailed, calf quality comes to the fore again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,587 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    The so called British Friesian was a much over estimated animal. Yes when you had the option of carrying cattle to 3+ years old it probably came into its own. However now you want weight gain. There is no point in producing a 300 kg or less carcasses in February. There will be a move to killing HE and AA at 18-20 months as well as the winter period. After that square HO bullocks will do.

    It may be more of a problem for the dairy industry as what cow type will produce milk with least fertlizer and feed input's

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭tractorporn


    Trust me the OCBs would much rather keep their current membership happy, with a slight increase each year than have a huge influx of envelope farmers in one scheme opening that cause huge problems and leave at the end of the scheme.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,587 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    A lot of hill farmers are 80-90% organic anyway as are some extensive farmers. Few will leave after joining unless it's a complete disaster for them

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,730 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    True, it's only a niche market and if the organic beef/lamb supply doubled it'd finish the bonus



  • Posts: 4,503 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If one were to go into organics, what's the craic with buying in stock? Can a non organic animal be converted or how does it work?



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 13,047 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    Afaik it's only a non organic bull that can be bought in for breeding. An animal has to be born and reared organically to be certified organic.

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭tractorporn


    Only stock born on the farm can be sold as organic, rams or bulls can be bought from anywhere and there's an allowance for non organic breeding females each year, they have to be either maiden or in calf heifers/hoggets so they will never be organic themselves but stock from them can be sold as organic. Hope that's not as clear as mud.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭tractorporn


    Anyone go to the farm walk in New Ross today? Any reports back?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,896 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    A big crowd at it. Pippa Hackett, dept, teagasc, both organic orgs, glenisk, Nigel Renaghan, all well represented.

    Farm looked well too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭tractorporn


    Sounds good any announcements about higher payments?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,896 ✭✭✭✭Say my name




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 380 ✭✭trg


    Hi all,

    We've c. 20 sucklers and would take very little to get rid of them as we've no grá for them at all. We have about 52 ha on the area aid.

    Fertiliser usage is low, roughly 8 ton. Really marginal hilly land.

    Was thinking that we're fairly low on the input side so would a switch to organic pay a bit better I wonder?

    We have a shed with straw pens beside cubicles and 4 Bay slatted shed.

    Was wondering what annual payments might be? And major capital cost that would need to happen?

    If sucklers go they'd probably be just replaced by stores.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,993 ✭✭✭endainoz


    Best to talk to an Agri advisor, but if you do go into the scheme you'll go into a two year conversion period where you'll get 220 euro per entitlement and 170 per entitlement after full conversion. Keep in mind that you won't get an organic premium for land that might be in GLAS, your stocking rate is also quite low, I'm not sure what the minimum rate is but that might need to be looked at. It's also suprising you need to spread fert at all with such low numbers but I'm not sure of your situation, maybe your sell bales separately.



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