organic farming

Mooooo

If its by reducing fertiliser emissions, clover and LESS is prob the most cost effective but the clover will take a lot of management and the bolloxing with clover safe sprays etc could make it difficult as well. Majority of us view slurry as an asset not waste as perceived by those outside ag

Say my name

Mooooo wrote: »

If its by reducing fertiliser emissions, clover and LESS is prob the most cost effective but the clover will take a lot of management and the bolloxing with clover safe sprays etc could make it difficult as well. Majority of us view slurry as an asset not waste as perceived by those outside ag

Majority view it as an asset currently.
In a few years when all the systems are decided on and running, the majority will view it as a valuable carbon asset. But the systems will be already in place then that your slurry will be legislated as a waste and farmers will have to pay the A.D. plants to take your 'waste' to save the planet.
The farmer then will get 'fertilizer' from the A.D. plants with 'fertilizer' from other human related industries mixed in. All safe of course to put carbon into the soil and save the planet.
Meanwhile the transport ferrying all this around will run on unicorn blessings.

All I'm saying is people need to have their eyes open on all this. There's going be lots of shaming going on in the next few years. All for the sole purpose of making money from other people's carbon. And probably getting a worse product back in return if it does come back which even if it does won't be your own and out of your control.
The next few years will decide the next hundred.

Water John

Mooooo wrote: »

If its by reducing fertiliser emissions, clover and LESS is prob the most cost effective but the clover will take a lot of management and the bolloxing with clover safe sprays etc could make it difficult as well. Majority of us view slurry as an asset not waste as perceived by those outside ag

Those measures will achieve a bit and are a first step. The ambition set in Shinagh is very high. An earlier realisable target might also be an option to include. This might be something in the order of 50%. These would identify technology and practices that could be relatively easily have widespread adoption in this country.
If that were to happen, then all the talk about cutting herd size, would be for nought as a better outcome would be achieved.

Markcheese

It'll be interesting to see a breakdown of the costs for the different parts of the research farm out in bandon..
But are they spending 2 million reinventing the wheel ? Teagasc has done loads of research on low input dairy grazing system ( solohead I think )

blue5000

Say my name wrote: »

Majority view it as an asset currently.
In a few years when all the systems are decided on and running, the majority will view it as a valuable carbon asset. But the systems will be already in place then that your slurry will be legislated as a waste and farmers will have to pay the A.D. plants to take your 'waste' to save the planet.
The farmer then will get 'fertilizer' from the A.D. plants with 'fertilizer' from other human related industries mixed in. All safe of course to put carbon into the soil and save the planet.
Meanwhile the transport ferrying all this around will run on unicorn blessings.

All I'm saying is people need to have their eyes open on all this. There's going be lots of shaming going on in the next few years. All for the sole purpose of making money from other people's carbon. And probably getting a worse product back in return if it does come back which even if it does won't be your own and out of your control.
The next few years will decide the next hundred.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there Say. Let's say you have to transport 100.000 gallons of slurry or 1000 tons of maize or grass feedstock to an AD then transport the liquid back again how much carbon is that going to burn?

Soil carbon on organic tillage farms needs to be looked at. Ploughing is the only way organic farmers can establish a crop in this country. But it has been ignored so far. I think this money would be better spent researching how to grow cereals organically using min till methods, instead of spending it hauling slurry around West Cork.

Castlekeeper

blue5000 wrote: »

I think you've hit the nail on the head there Say. Let's say you have to transport 100.000 gallons of slurry or 1000 tons of maize or grass feedstock to an AD then transport the liquid back again how much carbon is that going to burn?

Soil carbon on organic tillage farms needs to be looked at. Ploughing is the only way organic farmers can establish a crop in this country. But it has been ignored so far. I think this money would be better spent researching how to grow cereals organically using min till methods, instead of spending it hauling slurry around West Cork.

Or maybe grow alternative crops or mixes organically, that require less cultivation.
Focus on what works rather than what doesn't.

This €2m would by the farm ffs, and I'd say is basically going to be spent crunching numbers until they get an answer that suits them, whence the click will be stopped ala a Donald Trump style election.
There's nothing to suggest its remotely achievable at the minute a bit of hit and hope and PR to buy time.

yosemitesam1

Castlekeeper wrote: »

Or maybe grow alternative crops or mixes organically, that require less cultivation.
Focus on what works rather than what doesn't.

This €2m would by the farm ffs, and I'd say is basically going to be spent crunching numbers until they get an answer that suits them, whence the click will be stopped ala a Donald Trump style election.
There's nothing to suggest its remotely achievable at the minute a bit of hit and hope and PR to buy time.

Much much more than 2m has been awarded to teagasc for ghg reduction research over the last 20 years. Money doesn't go very far when academics are spending it

rounders

Personally I prefer this group getting it rather then Teagasc.

Teagasc don't seem to branch out into unusual areas, they seem to confine to a specific area. I'm not suggesting our research group shouldn't do any more research, just that it's nice to get a different perspective

Water John

It needs to be fully audited and verified. No ignoring the road diesel etc. Some research places draw in feed etc and it never appears on the books. Has to be transparent, no more greenwashing.

Siamsa Sessions

Any recommendations for books on soil that would suit a beginner?

I was looking up The Soil Owners Manual earlier. Would this be a good start?

yosemitesam1

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Any recommendations for books on soil that would suit a beginner?

I was looking up The Soil Owners Manual earlier. Would this be a good start?

What sort of perspective, soil health or understanding soil tests and the likes

Siamsa Sessions

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

What sort of perspective, soil health or understanding soil tests and the likes

Soil health I think. Would understanding characteristics and tests come after that?

Siamsa Sessions

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Any recommendations for books on soil that would suit a beginner?

I was looking up The Soil Owners Manual earlier. Would this be a good start?

Teaming with Microbes. Soil is fun once you go down the rabbit hole so to speak. Understand the relationship between the living plant and the biology below and above the surface.

Water John

Been promising myself to get this:
https://nots.ie/product/for-the-love-of-soil/

Really liked both Nicole Masters and Christine Jones at the Biological Conf.

SouthWesterly

Water John wrote: »

Been promising myself to get this:
https://nots.ie/product/for-the-love-of-soil/

Really liked both Nicole Masters and Christine Jones at the Biological Conf.

Just read a sample on amazon kindle. Interesting book.

Dinzee Conlee

Nettles lads, have a pile of me after coming in one paddock...

I know it’s easy enough to spray em - but what’s the organic approach?
What would ye organic lads do to get rid of em?

I know they are good for all kinda of butterflies and insects, and I am ok leaving some, but they are starting to take over so I need to do something...

Thoughts?

wrangler

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Nettles lads, have a pile of me after coming in one paddock...

I know it’s easy enough to spray em - but what’s the organic approach?
What would ye organic lads do to get rid of em?

I know they are good for all kinda of butterflies and insects, and I am ok leaving some, but they are starting to take over so I need to do something...

Thoughts?

An organic neighbour said to spray them on a friday evening and mow them monday morning. :rolleyes:

Jim_11

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Nettles lads, have a pile of me after coming in one paddock...

I know it’s easy enough to spray em - but what’s the organic approach?
What would ye organic lads do to get rid of em?

I know they are good for all kinda of butterflies and insects, and I am ok leaving some, but they are starting to take over so I need to do something...

Thoughts?

The place here was full of them up to 6-7 years ago, big patches everywhere. Regular topping sorted it, the only nettles now are in the ditches but will encroach on the field if let be

Ak84

Mow them a couple of days before cattle move in. Hopefully in sunny weather. The cattle will eat them all after a couple days wilt. Very good for them. Possibly anthelmintics as well.

endainoz

Ak84 wrote: »

Mow them a couple of days before cattle move in. Hopefully in sunny weather. The cattle will eat them all after a couple days wilt. Very good for them. Possibly anthelmintics as well.

That's a great call, didn't realize they would eat it after wilting. Nettles can be a good sign of soil health aswell.

Glyphosate, an incredibly interesting presentation.

https://youtu.be/pqJrkLy5VdQ

wrangler

endainoz wrote: »

That's a great call, didn't realize they would eat it after wilting. Nettles can be a good sign of soil health aswell.

Sheep and cattle really clear apaddock after mowing it, good for the grass too

Water John

I find with organic cattle, they will actually eat the tips of growing nettles and brambles.
Yeah mow/top them a few days before grazing. Good remedy for most weeds, except ragwort.

Will listen to that Quitter, thanks.

JohnChadwick

Have 1 field with the world of thistles every summer for the last good number of years, if anyone has any clues to solving them?

Stopped topping it about 3 years ago as I now use more proactive solutions - like getting the soil conditions right.

So the field has hardly had a heavy machine on it in 3 years. I know thistles are a symptom of soil compaction.

wrangler

JohnChadwick wrote: »

Have 1 field with the world of thistles every summer for the last good number of years, if anyone has any clues to solving them?

Stopped topping it about 3 years ago as I now use more proactive solutions - like getting the soil conditions right.

So the field has hardly had a heavy machine on it in 3 years. I know thistles are a symptom of soil compaction.

They need to be mowed twice a year and don't let them flower. 'Topping' is a waste of time , Mowing depletes their resrves and will kill them,
They'll thrive if you leave them alone and do nothing

JohnChadwick

wrangler wrote: »

They need to be mowed twice a year and don't let them flower. 'Topping' is a waste of time , Mowing depletes their resrves and will kill them,
They'll thrive if you leave them alone and do nothing

Ya want to look at more soil biology focused solutions though. Preferably one that doesn't involve using machinery.

Base price

How do organic farmers deal with docks. Some of our land is in GLAS/LIPP and the number of docks/thistles/creeping nettles in those fields has increased substantially in the last five/six years. We are not allowed to blanket spray them and I really don't want too as the spray will kill the clover, plantain and other plants in the sward.
We got a adjoining 7 acre field (not in GLAS) sprayed a few weeks ago that was polluted with docks, thistles and some creeping nettles. The contractor recommended Forefront T which seemed to have worked well but to the detriment of clover, plantain, yellow rattle etc. When OH and I walked it last week I felt awfully guilty

SouthWesterly

Base price wrote: »

How do organic farmers deal with docks. Some of our land is in GLAS/LIPP and the number of docks/thistles/creeping nettles in those fields has increased substantially in the last five/six years. We are not allowed to blanket spray them and I really don't want too as the spray will kill the clover, plantain and other plants in the sward.
We got a adjoining 7 acre field (not in GLAS) sprayed a few weeks ago that was polluted with docks, thistles and some creeping nettles. The contractor recommended Forefront T which seemed to have worked well but to the detriment of clover, plantain, yellow rattle etc. When OH and I walked it last week I felt awfully guilty

Find out what your ground is deficient in. The docks etc are there for a purpose.
Can you not just top them before they go to seed?

Dinzee Conlee

Base price wrote: »

How do organic farmers deal with docks. Some of our land is in GLAS/LIPP and the number of docks/thistles/creeping nettles in those fields has increased substantially in the last five/six years. We are not allowed to blanket spray them and I really don't want too as the spray will kill the clover, plantain and other plants in the sward.
We got a adjoining 7 acre field (not in GLAS) sprayed a few weeks ago that was polluted with docks, thistles and some creeping nettles. The contractor recommended Forefront T which seemed to have worked well but to the detriment of clover, plantain, yellow rattle etc. When OH and I walked it last week I felt awfully guilty

This was what remained of the docks in one field after the sheep were in for a bit. Not sure if its a sign that they are deficient in something or not, but I like to see them eaten

Edit : If only they did the same for the rushes

Base price

SouthWesterly wrote: »

Find out what your ground is deficient in. The docks etc are there for a purpose.
Can you not just top them before they go to seed?

Under the t&c's of GLAS/LIPP you cannot top/mow before the 1st of July annually.
We get biannual soil sampling done by a private contractor over the entire farm.