organic farming

Prop Joe · 20-07-2021 10:43am

Where to buy organic ration in kerry?

rounders · 27-07-2021 3:49pm

Few good articles in the Independent about organics today.

The first one, I always thought looking for double the payments was pie in the sky stuff till they mentioned our payments are 50% less than in Europe

‘Payment per hectare needs to double to attract new people to organics’

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/payment-per-hectare-needs-to-double-to-attract-new-people-to-organics-40691757.html

‘It’s great to have freedom’: Why this Monaghan suckler farmer converted to organic without grant support

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/its-great-to-have-freedom-whythismonaghan-suckler-farmer-converted-to-organic-withoutgrant-support-40691682.html

endainoz · 27-07-2021 5:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669083#Comment_117669083

Premium articles, any chance of throwing the text from them on here? Or is that very much frowned upon

rounders · 27-07-2021 7:22pm

Some of the key points from https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/its-great-to-have-freedom-whythismonaghan-suckler-farmer-converted-to-organic-withoutgrant-support-40691682.html

What makes 2021 particularly special for the IFA Organics chairman, who also runs a substantial commercial poultry enterprise, is that his transition was made without financial support from Government.He was “really let down” in 2018 when he was refused entry to the Organic Farming Scheme. “I was distraught about it at the time because I’d consulted so many people and I’d made a personal commitment to go down that road which is a big mindset change. It was a major decision that we made as a family. Nigel Renaghan and wife Bernice with children Pat, Peter Katie, Colleen, Sofia and Hugh. “What hurt the most was to be told that the reason we didn’t get in was because we weren’t big enough farmers. It was a points-based system, the bigger you were the more points you got. I didn’t have enough land, that was my problem.” Nonetheless, Nigel stuck with it and completed his two-year conversion period at his own cost. He completed the required organic courses and plans, converted his farm buildings and sowed red clover and forage rape all in the hopes of being accepted when the scheme reopened. “I spent €129,000 on a cattle shed with organics in mind. But I had matting down that cost €2,500 which had to be removed and replaced with straw until I got to a place where I was more self-sufficient. “The conversion was tough, I had a lot to learn because you’re coming from fields where you’d spread nitrogen and the land goes into shock when you take it off it.

“People think you can’t stock as intensely organically as you can commercially, but this year I was stocked heavier organically — I had 65 cattle. And one thing I’ve really noticed is I wouldn’t be dosing cattle the way I used to and they are okay, they are not coughing or anything. “I’ve come out the other side with more grass than I had using chemical fertiliser — the clover has knocked me for six and the cattle are thriving. “People might say ‘Nigel you're not even in the scheme, would you not just get out of it? But one of the best benefits of not being in the scheme is that nobody can come into my yard, turnaround and say ‘this and that isn’t right and we’re going to pull your Basic Farm Payment’.

rounders · 27-07-2021 7:28pm

On for the other article the main points that stand out - https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/payment-per-hectare-needs-to-double-to-attract-new-people-to-organics-40691757.html

Bord Bia has also drawn down little to no EU funding for organic promotion and that speaks volumes to Bord Bia’s commitment to organic production. “If they think Origin Green is the best Ireland has to give on agricultural production, where does organic fit into it?

Ms Westbrook described Ireland’s organics record as “a bit of an embarrassment” in comparison to the rest of Europe. “Other member states are gearing up for it and they are actually quite glad that Ireland is not because, if it did, we would steal the market, which is what we should be doing.” Gillian Westbrook, CEO of the Irish Organics Association. She said the road blocks are “complicated”. “First of all, the per-hectare payments are not sufficient — they are around 50pc of what the rest of Europe is getting. “The CAP, while it has given some support toward organic and it increased significantly in 2015, there are a lot of issues around double funding that I believe don’t stand up. For example, there are 16 actions under GLAS deemed to be ‘double funding’.“The new CAP must get rid of those inconsistencies and have a level playing field and a level market across the EU.

There is more to the articles but don't want completely take the piss. Not sure if they would feature in the print edition of farming on Thursdays (think that's when it comes out). Been a few Organics articles lately and not just the standard copy paste sort of articles

Water John · 27-07-2021 10:06pm

Thanks, Rounders. Farming Indo is on Tuesday. Having heard him speaking twice on the IFA Presidential campaign and having met him via organic training, I think the IFA lost out in not picking him. He was by far the more impressive speaker at the IFA events. Nigel and I belong to the 63 who soldiered on without payment.

Very correct on red clover, great stuff in silage. If one has the land every drystock farmer, organic or not, should grow a few acres.

endainoz · 30-07-2021 12:29pm

So I was looking for some info regarding lime application. Ill be doing a deep soil analysis first to see how the trace elements are but I'm pretty certain they'll tell me to apply lime to bring up the PH levels. Now I know there's a huge difference between the powdered lime and Gran lime in price but the Gran lime seems so much more effective. Ill probably want to do the silage ground with it, so it would work out to be about 10 hectares to get it done. I was hopefully going to spread in with a wag tail spreader.

Would it be financially crazy to go for big bags of Gran lime? Would I be better off getting a contractor to spread the powdered stuff? It's a good 20 odds years since the land got lime so I'm certain it would react to it.

blue5000 · 30-07-2021 1:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117682440#Comment_117682440

I think whoever supplies the ground limestone offers a spreading service as well. Doing it with a wagtail sounds painful to me.

endainoz · 30-07-2021 2:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117682931#Comment_117682931

I guess it would depend on the application rate. Had the idea of loading it soth the loader in big bags.

Danzy · 31-07-2021 5:02am

Gran lime is great for a year, powdered lime works for many years. Much more efficient cost wise and in fixing pH etc. No comparison.

Water John · 31-07-2021 11:53am

Agree Danzy, Gran lime is a quick fix and short term. 2T ground limestone every 4 years. A tonne should be < €25 delivered a spread, so that's €12.50/year cost.

wrangler · 31-07-2021 1:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117686275#Comment_117686275

After the first few applications it should last longer than four years, I was getting eight to ten years at the end

blue5000 · 05-08-2021 9:18am

How long more will organic farmers be allowed to plough ?

Water John · 05-08-2021 9:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117708722#Comment_117708722

Good question, but I suppose farming is evolving and many who are not organic are also moving away from the plough, where possible.

The more I read, I think grass seeds and clover seeds should be sown separately. Grass seed needs to be covered and clover simply rolled in, for optimum take.

Base price · 05-08-2021 11:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117708923#Comment_117708923

The same as WBC. We sow (broadcast with the wagtail) oat seed and harrow it in with a triple K harrow. We then sow linseed and phacelia seed before rolling it.

Bass Reeves · 05-08-2021 11:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117685612#Comment_117685612

Many people misunderstand the difference between granlime and agrilime. Granlime is spread in springtime and is 100% available. Technically granular limes are only three time stronger however leeching is not allow for. Leeching can account for losses of 350kgs over a single winter (2t/ acre application).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117686275#Comment_117686275

It harder to get PH up with granlime however it's.much easier to maintain pH. Most research shows that ph is maintained by 50 kgs/ year the cost is 7-8 euro. For the first 12 months after application of agriculture lime you lose all slurry N value and have to use can instead of urea. On silage ground that could cost you 25 euro/ acre

Earnshaw · 15-08-2021 1:39pm

In new CAP, 25% of direct payments are to be transferred into eco schemes, question is will Organic farmers have access to this fund?

Water John · 15-08-2021 7:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117757381#Comment_117757381

That is what is being lobbied for in the present consultation process, by all involved in organics.

endainoz · 18-08-2021 10:43am

https://www.teagasc.ie/news--events/news/2021/multi-species-swards-grow.php

Good news, though it's taken them long enough to come around to the idea. I wonder how many more droughts it will take for intensive lads to take the hint.

Bass Reeves · 18-08-2021 11:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117770550#Comment_117770550

Only issue is how you solve the dock issue. Docks can quickly become predominant in swards especially on silage ground. You then have the issue of controling them

Say my name · 18-08-2021 11:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117770768#Comment_117770768

There's more issues than that.

It's management and persistency. They won't drill into existing swards. You need to plough. And three/two years is the limit of some of the plants before resowing.

The docks should be palatable when fert is reduced/eliminated. They should die out over time if not let seed.

Birdnuts · 18-08-2021 10:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117770768#Comment_117770768

Docks love excessive soil N levels too

Say my name · 18-08-2021 11:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117773853#Comment_117773853

I think it's the actual splash plate on a slurry spreader too favours their growth.

When you go with the splash plate you cover the entire soil in a blanket of slurry. It changes the soil to a kind of anaerobic for a short time and whatever seed is there with the juice definitely germinates. Dribble bar I think not so much, the air is still going down in the soil and docks don't prefer it as much..🤔?

If you've open high calcium soil the Dock doesn’t seem to like it.

JohnChadwick · 30-08-2021 2:18pm

Can you lease land to another farmer with the stipulation that it must be farmed organically for the duration of the lease?

Would never consider leasing to a dairy farmer when you see how hard they drive the land. Also would not want my land under tillage.

tractorporn · 30-08-2021 9:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117823208#Comment_117823208

Plenty of organic farmers itching to lease more land. Usually its the opposite stipulation, that it can't be farmed organically.

Say my name · 30-08-2021 9:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117825152#Comment_117825152

Another point is if the land is not certified organically farmed already is that there's two years of a lead in period going to be wasted for that certified organic farmer renting this land.

On that point. What does an organic farmer do with the produce of such land in those two years?

Hardly allowed graze their stock or use fodder saved on that ground.

Only option to get use from it would be to sow oats or barley and sell the grain conventionally and use the straw.

Or?? Thoughts.

JohnChadwick · 30-08-2021 9:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117825152#Comment_117825152

Yea the thinking nowadays is that the soil would be in a dire state after 5 or more years of intensive nitrogen input, high frequency silage cutting and perennial ryegrass reseeds.