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Michael D Higgins insists he is President of Ireland, refuses to commemorate partition

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,976 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Don't have to prove dishonesty, just lack of transparency, as I have already explained.



  • Posts: 6,246 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No need for a wider conversation,partion has failed,deosnt work,wont ever work


    Quite why you have nailed your coulers to the mast and demand every and any excuse be used to block democracy is quite telling as regards those,whom perpetuate.partition.here and what they will stoop to,to demand no poll



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,702 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    Yes it was unknown prior to the GFA how would partition end. All we knew is we factually happened.


    Now we know it is only the people of Ireland that will have a say and not people of Britain or their politicians. We also know from the GFA that the boundary line of the NI jurisdiction can't be changed to suit partitionists should the present NI vote to unite. In the 90's there had been a call by Sammy Wilson of the DUP that the boundary of NI should be changed to give unionists a stronger majority and to further prevent a UI of happening. Thankfully more gerrymandering breaks the GFA.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,063 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The SoS tells the Judicial Review that he/she based his/her decision on a set of circumstances and came to the conclusion it was time to put the question to the test in the public interest (Allowed for in the court ruling if you bother to read it).

    Transparent and honest and completely compatible with the GFA and subsequent annexes and court rulings.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,976 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You are mixing up the specifics of a border poll under the GFA with the general context of elections/border polls.

    An election at any time or a referendum at any time is always democratic.

    However, there are exceptions and a border poll under the GFA is one. The GFA put certain democratic controls on the holding of border polls which were key protections. A minimum period of seven years between them and a requirement that the SoS reasonably hold the opinion that one was likely to succeed were limits agreed democratically. It means that an SoS hostile to unionism (say Jeremy Corbyn) couldn't keep holding a border poll every month until the people got too tired and gave in. Such actions would be anti-democratic in nature. So in actual fact, a person who calls for a GFA border poll when the conditions set down by the GFA have not been met is the one acting undemocratically. It is no surprise to me to see Mary-Lou in that position. Why do you think that the more honest and more reasonable political leaders down here such as Martin and Varadkar have refused to call for a border poll. They know that it is undemocratic to do so in the current circumstances.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,976 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Yes, and the SoS would tell the court the set of circumstances (I read it on boards as a good idea, felt it in my waters, and talked to a man down the Shankill Road) and reach a conclusion as to whether the SoS acted honestly or not in reaching their decision.



  • Posts: 6,246 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Mate spin it what ever way,yous want....only person here,demanding democracy be blocked and not allowed is you


    To.my eyes (and anyone not utterly blinded by partisanship)the criteria has been met and its utter contempt for democracy from the british,partitions a failure,why.yous want to.perpetuate it,to extent you've convinced yourself holding elections/polls.is undemocractic is.beyond me,but to.my eyes,theres no.justication for demanding.democracy not be allowed....from efforts to overturn brexit referendum to blocking border polls here,yous lot along with the british,clearly place little to no.value in democracy



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,063 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    No, the SoS would likely present the political climate, the direction the rest of the UK want to go in, contrary to the expressed wish of a majority in the north, the view of the Irish government which has produced a proposal for Unification and he/she, as the judgement outlined 'may' also use opinion polls and data. As the judgement, you clearly haven't read says, the SoS may correctly and lawfully call a poll at any time based on criteria he/she chooses.

    For example, the Secretary of State could call a poll in order to give a quietus to the controversial question of a united Ireland for a period of time if she thinks that a majority would vote in favour of remaining in the United Kingdom. She could direct such a poll if there was a doubt in her mind as to whether a majority was to be found on one side or the other. She could decide to call such a poll if persuaded by political representatives that it would be desirable to sound the people out on the issue or to close the issue for a number of years. The precise circumstances and the political context of a decision are variable and highly political. 



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,976 ✭✭✭✭blanch152




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,976 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The criteria for a border poll have not been met, not a chance. You might set out the factual basis of this delusion?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,063 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,976 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    A GFA border poll can only be held under certain conditions as set out in the GFA.

    However, there is nothing to stop a SOS calling a poll on anything he wants to such as the price of chicken.



  • Posts: 6,246 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The cemsus results to be released next summer are prelimimarly showinh.cat/nationlist majprity


    To my eyes and anyone not blinded by partisansanship to extent,they.convince emselves holding election/polls is undemocratic,the criteria is met.....the fact yous need block democracy and are utter terrified to face electorate is the ultimate in telling,hitler was never elected chamcellor,no need to.fear democracy and certainly no.justification in.blocking it imo



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,976 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The census results are not showing that at all. You are fantasising.



  • Posts: 6,246 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Except im not😅😅


    Criteria has been met,your anti-democrtatic wishes and demands have thankfully (and hopefully) run out of road,


    The utter distain of democracy simply seeps out of your posts....usent yous once want to demand a super majority,and when.that been destroyed with facts and logic...you have simply lurched to.claiming holding.polls/elections is undemocratic....when will it become a.GDPR issue🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,063 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Good lord, this really is fascinating.

    Would you go off and actually read the judgement as you are making a complete fool of yourself.


    [13] In relation to the Belfast Agreement counsel stated that where a provision of the Belfast Agreement had been enacted into domestic law through the NIA reliance upon the agreement added nothing to the legal arguments the court must consider in assessing the application. Where the applicant relied on provisions of the Belfast Agreement which had not been enacted into domestic law these were unincorporated treaty provisions and thus not justiciable. In fact, counsel argued, the statutory provisions of the NIA in this context faithfully reflected the Belfast Agreement annex. The Belfast Agreement made no reference to the need for a policy or subordinate legislation and in the light of Robinson the NIA fell to be interpreted and applied with flexibility. Tying the Secretary of State down to a policy would detract from the need for a flexible political decision in the light of evolving circumstances.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,422 ✭✭✭trashcan


    Talk of a “middle ground” in the context of a border poll is nonsense really. It’s a binary choice, stay within the UK or vote for a United Ireland, there is no third way. Now you may be right and significant people within what would traditionally have been thought of as nationalists may well decide to accept the status quo, but that’s not middle ground, that’s making a choice for one option over the other, as everyone will have to if and when it comes to a poll.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,355 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Where did I object to ME being called a partitionist....?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,355 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    A border poll next summer, so that the UI crowd can lose? Sure work away! ROFL



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,063 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    So complaining in feedback about it means you are happy about it?

    Glad we cleared that up, you are happy to be called a partitionist. Cool.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,355 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    The only dissident Republicans on this thread are those who deny that partition is a fact of life and will rather stick their heads in the sand regarding that reality.

    The same talking points about partition, the GFA are those extolled by Republican SF.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,063 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You making stuff up again Mark?

    Who 'denied partition is a fact of life'? Somebody living on the 'border'? 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,355 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    A majority Catholic/Nationalist population in the North?

    Say what? What utter rubbish is this? Stop lying and making stuff up, even your supporters on this thread won't be thanking you for it, as it will make them also look bad.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,355 ✭✭✭✭markodaly




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    Its just like a dissident republican you talk about the IRA surrendering and the state giving up on the north. All these are the view of dissidents AFAIK. They also don't like SF. Do you support the GFA? You seem to have little regard for it or the peace it brought. Trying to take digs at any participants of the peace process says no.

    I think anyone who supported the peace can still aspire to a UI as the GFA points out.

    Michael D. our president certainly saw the bull in the 100 years celebrations of oppression and the anti-democratic self interested.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,355 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Blazz for example. Yourself on occasion although you have through gritted teeth acknowledged that Northern Ireland belongs to the UK as per the GFA for now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,355 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    The feedback thread was about name calling for the sake of it. I gave my feedback because well, and here is a hint, it was called the feedback forum.....

    You can call me whatever thing you want. But it shows up the people doing the name-calling tbh.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,063 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Again, please stop lying.

    Never once did I deny partition exists. And many times now I have said I comply to the agreement I voted for which states only that I accept the will of the majority to remain in the UK.

    Umpteen times I have asked you to show the text that says we 'accept' partition and you have failed to produce it and in fact, by bolding selected bits of text drew attention to the careful wording in the agreement that avoided asking us to 'accept' partition.

    Like NI Mark, you have failed and are now stooping to cheap lies about what I said.



  • Posts: 6,246 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




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  • Posts: 6,246 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Quite telling,alt right memes yous nees to resort to,when being destroyed with facts and logic😊


    Fairly simple to prove me wrong,hold the poll



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