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Mayo GAA Discussion

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27 mayo man in london


    JP Kean facebook post on october 16



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm not on Facebook so I got sent it by email, I'll pm it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,935 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy


    Explain what? Of course Croke Parka nd Connacht Council keep gate receipts, what do you want Mayo GAA to do about that exactly?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,935 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM!

    We know that there the are lots of people in and around the Mayo County Board, who have no interest in looking back, no interest in investigating if any one, or a number of things, have sadly left our County, with the title of the biggest losers in the history of Gaelic Football. There’s a very good reason for that, which is that they don’t want anyone attaching blame to them.

    As a player and as a County team manager, I have played my own part in adding to that history. My involvement started in 1971 as Mayo Minor Captain and ended as Mayo Minor Manager in 2002. I played Senior (badly) right through the ‘70’s, which was of course the only decade in which Mayo failed to win a Senior Connaught title. It’s a bit of a mystery to me how that happened, given Mayo’s underage All Ireland record between 1966 and 1978.

    Mayo won a minor All Ireland in 1966. In 1980 all of those players were only 31 or 32 years old. All in their prime throughout the ‘70’s. In 1967 Mayo beat Kerry in a replayed All Ireland U21 Final. Many of those players would have been in their prime through the early to mid ‘70’s. In 1971 we again won the Minor All Ireland and many of that team played in the 1973 All Ireland U21 Final defeat to Kerry. That Kerry team formed the basis of the highly successful Kerry Senior team of the following ten years. We won the All Ireland U21 Final in 1974, and were beaten All Ireland Minor Finalists that year too. Then, in 1978 we won a third Minor All Ireland in 12 years! So what happened to all of that talent? Why did it fail to produce even one team to win a Connacht Senior title between 1969 and 1981?

    Okay, so maybe there’s no point in digging that far back. It might be more productive to revisit the more recent past, which in a few short years, has produced the largest group of top quality players in the history of Mayo Football, at least 8 or 10 of whom would rank with the greatest ever produced in our County.

    There are those who believe that focusing entirely on the future, even if it means making the same mistakes, and perpetuating that losing sequence, is better than investigating the historical reasons, which if addressed, might cure the problems and bring that evasive All Ireland Senior Crown, which at times has deservedly eluded us right at the death, but which at other times we have thrown away!

    It looks like the proposed review planned into the 2021 Final debacle is being long-fingered. A review which should have taken place in the cold light of day in the immediate aftermath of the game, when feelings were running high, and memories still sharp, could have been very cathartic. All that passion and emotion running loose might have resulted in some hurtful and over the top comment. In fact, that was there anyway, but some of it would surely have been very educational, cleansing and constructive.

    However, it appears the Board are hoping that with the passage of more and more time, the anger and disappointment will have dissipated to such an extent, that a delayed review and likely another whitewash, will satisfy the fans. The management and players may get a slap on the wrist, and Mayo GAA will just carry on carrying on! A new slapstick Comedy movie for the third decade of the 21st Century.

    The makeup of the Review Group is unlikely to instill any confidence, that it will rigorously examine, the weaknesses in support and direction provided by the Board, in the strength of the team management structure, or in the quality of the playing group. The review body will probably consist of collection of ‘Company’ men, trained in the art of toeing the line, which involves pointing the blame away from the officers and Board. In my view, if the Board was really serious about a full reveal of what has gone wrong, so many times, it should have approached someone of the calibre of a Jim McGuinness or a Peter Canavan or a Jim Gavin to lead a properly independent, no holds barred review.

    I know I might sound a bit like a broken record by mentioning again, the comprehensive review of Mayo GAA structures prepared by Liam Horan 15 or so years ago. If the Board of the time had been farseeing enough to look seriously at Liam’s proposals, and less concerned about the affect it might have on their personal positions of relative power and influence, which meant so much to them, the Board of 2021 might have been spared the present proposed review, and there might well be several more Sam Maguires in the trophy cabinet.

    And now for the ‘Elephant in the room’. Again, I have to apologise for going back in time, to examine a decision that must rank as the most ill advised, most expensive, and most destructive decision ever taken by the Mayo County Board, or perhaps by any County Board, with the possible exception of Cork. That was the decision to take over McHale Park on some kind of long term lease basis, and to redevelop it, without it would appear, any proper costing, or plan to meet the costs. I thought at the time, and stated as much in the Western People, that it was a decision fraught with danger, because I didn’t believe the Board had the expertise to manage and fund such a project, and because I was hugely concerned about the amount of money the loan repayments would take away from the promotion of football in the County. I had absolutely no idea, how grossly I had underestimated the inept and inadequate approach of the Board to the task, or how extreme the consequences would be for every club and every GAA player in our County.

    The Board had to be bailed out by Croke Park, when they ran into difficulties with their Bank, and were locked into an outrageous repayment system, which could only have been agreed to, by people who knew that some other soft target, was actually going to be funding the ridiculous repayments of over €33000 every month, initially for 30 years!! That €33000 is not coming out of the pockets of the County Board officers who created this monstrous debt in the first place of course, it is being paid for by the clubs. There are roughly 50 clubs in the County, so in effect, on average, each club has to find €600 every month to pay for this County Board Folly, which equates to €7200 (Seven thousand two hundred euro) per year. With the payment system being tiered, Intermediate and Junior clubs do pay less, but believe me, this is the very first payment your club has to scrape together and is mandated to hand over every single month. When you consider that Croke Park expect to be paid for 30 years, that means that €216000 (Two hundred and sixteen thousand euro) on average, will have been removed from your Club, your Parish, and your players including your underage players during the term of this loan. Can you imagine the damage that loss of finance will cause at local level, across every one of fifty plus clubs in Mayo. If the maths education my primary school teachers gave me is not too far off the mark, that amounts to close to a cool €12,000,000 (Twelve million euro) removed from the financial resources of our clubs, to pay for perhaps, the costliest white elephant in the history of amateur sport.

    Now, that is a white elephant that needs to be considered in any review of the past and present performance of our County teams, because the removal of that vast amount of money to fund a depreciating piece of defective and costly infrastructure, hugely impacts the quality of player, that every single club in the County can produce. Just imagine if that €600 per month was spent on a good coach in every one of our 50 clubs, over the past ten or so years, since this insane project was undertaken. Imagine the scoring forwards we might have unearthed, or the extra Lee Keegan’s or Keith Higgins’s!!

    If the Mayo County Board was a business, and I have long argued it should be operating as a business, then our Board would be insolvent, as it is incapable of meeting its debts, without wreaking havoc and potentially visiting financial destruction on every club unit in the County.

    Our Mayo people of course are paying through the nose on the double. They fund their clubs to pay this huge McHale Park debt in the first instance. Add to that the multi millions that Mayo supporters have paid, to follow their team to All Ireland Semi-Finals and Finals, all of which goes into the Croke Park vault. Fifteen big Mayo games probably contributed a minimum of €30,000,000 (Thirty Million euro)to the GAA, and with perhaps 60% of that coming out of Mayo pockets, equating to €18,000,000 (Eighteen Million euro), we are being royally screwed. Mayo supporters, who have probably been the GAA’s greatest cash cow over the last twelve years, are being squeezed financially from all sides, and it is unfair, inequitable and unsustainable. Croke Park need to be made aware of the strain their unconscionable loan terms are creating, and perhaps the Board in the best interests of Mayo Football need to consider ‘pulling the plug’, which is what would have happened some time ago were the Mayo County Board operating in the real business world!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27 mayo man in london


    tell croke park we not paying 33k a month anymore...thats what they should do. or will the mayogaa executive bow to the powers to be at croke park and take it up the a$$ for 24 more years. historically we know what the answer will be so better load up on some new tubs of vaseline.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭muddle84


    And we were doing so well.......



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,935 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy


    We were paying almost 50k a month before Croke Park stepped in so we are actually saving 200k pa on repayments, the whole redevelopment was a folly but who do you wnat to pay for it?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The thing is, are Cork repaying their bail out? It's completely unfair to lump this bill on every club in the county



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,935 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy


    Is that whats actually happening though? The clubs are not forking out for this every month



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 511 ✭✭✭boosabum


    Cork have a big advantage that it can hold big concerts there and make money to service their debt.

    Unfortunately, music promoters won't send an ed Sheeran or Bruce Springsteen to McHale park.

    I would image a three event per year revenue generator was included in the business plan when the costings were done back in the boom times which won't be realised



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,884 ✭✭✭HBC08


    Whilst I'd agree with a lot of what of what JP says he needs to be reign it in and be a bit realistic aswell.

    He's been close enough to the actual day to day stuff to know it's not going to be smooth all the time,there are obvious issues,and being a Hurler on the ditch doesnt help anyone.Im not sure it's his intention but he's been getting echo chamber reactions on fb for a good while now.

    Maybe he needs to get more involved again....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,758 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    What are the thoughts on Mayo likely voting against both options today?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,705 ✭✭✭✭Green&Red


    Prediction for this weekend?


    Knockmore

    Breaffy

    Westport

    Garrymore


    If Garrymore & Breaffy both win it means Westport can’t meet the winners of Knockmore/Tubber until the final


    Kiltane & Aghamore


    Louisburgh, Mayo Gaels, Parke, Kilmaine

    Laherdane & Swinford


    Kilmeena, Islandeady



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,935 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy


    Disappointed but not really surprised, hopefully there might be a tweak to allow team 6 into the knock out rounds, that might swing it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,302 ✭✭✭spakman


    Being discussed at congress at the moment, and about to vote so there won't be any amendments today



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,464 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    It was defeated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,758 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Disappointing really



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,386 ✭✭✭✭DDC1990


    No horse in this race but the referee is extremely one sided. Westport getting a very raw deal.


    Ballina getting some very very soft frees.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,736 ✭✭✭Fowler87


    Some late drama to Knockmore-Ballintubber game. Odd penalty decision though! Fair play to Knockmore keeper. Great moment for him



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,705 ✭✭✭✭Green&Red


    Some finish to that game, we were sure it was done, then he gave the penalty, which the tubber lads were sure Diarmuid would score. Great moment for Ryan McDonnell, delighted for him.

    Poor enough game in the first half. I really don't understand why tubber didnt just keep the ball, why bother trying to score at all when there is a breeze like that, much smarter to just hold onto it. Knockmore had retreated, they would have forced us out the field if the goalie and corner back spent five minutes passing it back and forth.

    Our first goal was lovely, such quick hands and a great finish but other than that I thought Tubber were much the better team.

    Second half picked up a lot in intensity, the second goal was a killer for them, I'd feel sorry for their goalie, first year senior. We did a great job up to the second water break of just keeping the ball. Got some great scores and just worked very hard. Seemed to tire in the last quarter and tubber nearly did it. They seemed very hesitant to shoot when they were 3/4 points down, it made no sense, there was a gale.

    Ref was diabolical, for both sides, gave some awful soft frees. There seemed to be a period of 10 minutes in the second half if you got your hands on the ball from a kick out it was a free. I felt, but this may be biased, that he gave a lot to tubber in the first half but then he let us get away with constantly going down with injuries in the second half, surprised there wasnt 20 minutes of extra time. Gibbons first yellow seemed harsh but the ref was kinda obstructed, his linesman could see it was chest height though and not round the neck, should have said something.

    I don't think it influenced any of his decisions but he lives and is married to a ballintubber woman, this shouldn't be happening. Not his fault but the county board shouldn't be appointing him to tubber games.

    Thought O'Malley & Plunkett were very good for tubber, especially in the first half. Thought Diarmuid was anonymous until five minutes from time. Gibbons was well contained.

    For us it'll be a big lose if Darren McHale and Colm Reape are out for long, massive, hard to see a county title without them.

    King, Orme and Naughton were outstanding. Kevin Mc, Dempsey and Pearse Ruttledge all had great second halves, Ruddy had a very good first half, probably wasn't mobile enough for into the wind but Shane McHale was MOTM for me, he ran the show, absolutely unreal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,070 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    Breaffy out without a whimper! Shockingly poor game of football and Breaffy went out with the same game plan as usual, run the ball into contact until you're dispossessed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,405 ✭✭✭naughto


    Will the manager get the road now though he should have went after the final last yr



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,070 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    Ford was managing last year but I wouldn't be surprised to see McIntyre get the axe for this year. But there's more at fault than just bad management (and it has been bad management).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,705 ✭✭✭✭Green&Red


    Looked like ye had it until ROD got the goal. Bit like Mayo ye find a novel way to lose.

    Means Belmullet/Knockmore v Westport/CBar or Garrymore



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 97 ✭✭Fanofconnacht


    Just read article by JPK. Just confirms once again how inept a County Board we have. At this point obvious that review of AI campaign, Management of Team, Panel etc will not occur in any useful manner, JH will continue for another losing season with a significant number of serial losers on the panel, a new Chairman will be elected who will maintain or lower standard of Mayo County Board. Everything will be the same next year yet the eternal optimists will believe we will win an AI.

    We can still expect that Breaffy and Ballintubber will have more players on Mayo team than Knockmore. Based on what we saw over weekend hard to comprehend the 15 starters we had in Croker in Sept.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,302 ✭✭✭spakman


    'Serial losers" - at least you're not disguising that you have an agenda and are hostile to practically everyone involved, be they players, management or county board officials.

    BTW, we don't have any serial all-ireland winners in the county to call upon.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭Squatman


    good point. its easy to forget that many of this team have finally won a league all ireland which has evaded us for many years, and similarly, many were part of the 2016 <21 final win over Cork in Ennis.



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