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Heavyweight Boxing



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,777 ✭✭✭ squinn2912

    FFS that’s put me in a mood. I was looking forward to getting a look at that fight. This fights all comers is some nonsense. Oul bollox

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,777 ✭✭✭ squinn2912

    Anyhow, the Tyson debate is one that’s gonna stick around, folks. If you don’t like reading it you have the option to not. The alternative is that the thread goes quiet because there’s gonna be a lull in HW action for a little while. It becomes more relevant as the current crop face each other. Your mind changes or is reaffirmed by a fighter. If Fury beats say aj then there’s a stronger argument for him, if he loses then anyone thinking Tyson would win will use that as the evidence has changed. Hardly that surprising. I’d like to watch a prime Povetkin fight Tyson. Some action in there but Tyson kos him for me!

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,446 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright

    Because Spinks was a LHW , He was middle weight champion at the Olympics ,

    Yes he won the heavy weight title but it was because he seen the right opportunity in Holmes , he was afraid to leave the dressing rom against Mike ,

    Holmes was retired grand da when he got the call to fight Mike.

    Remember the story of Don King knocking on his front door when he was two year retired one night looking for him to fight, Holmes said who do you want me to fight King said Mike Tyson below is Holmes own words ,

    Holmes replied i can't beat mike Tyson Don said, 'What if I give you 3 ½ million dollars?,' and I said, 'Where's Mike at?' I'm just glad he didn't kill me. He knocked me down a few times, but I didn't feel it because the first time he hit me I was numb. 

  • Registered Users Posts: 48,397 ✭✭✭✭ walshb

    A fight I was only thinking of the the other day, and although I'd go with Tyson via KO, I think AP is a style and size and makeup that could make this very competitive.

    He's hard, tough, physiologically strong and suited to being good against Tyson. Tyson might not do the job with one shot, but I think his speed/power and overall better defense see him connecting a bit too much, and we see a Richard Steele like stoppage ala Razor Ruddock fight 1.

    Watched Bowe-Holyfield last night: Wow. words cannot accurately describe its brilliance. Relating to HWs today, I am thinking that a Wilder-Bowe fight could be serious fun, and I'd give Wilder a fair chance of nailing Bowe for the KO. Bowe is perfectly in Wilder' eye line. The perfect height for Wilder to detonate very cleanly, and Bowe could be hit. It's why I think a 90s Foreman may well have walked through Bowe for the KO, assuming Bowe doesn't KO Foreman, and I don't think he does....after Lewis-Bowe, Foreman-Bowe is right up there as a fight I'd die for!

    I will say that if Wilder cannot KO Bowe, then Bowe eats him up....such a skilled big man, and could punch.

  • Registered Users Posts: 48,397 ✭✭✭✭ walshb

    Yet you will hear some mention how Holmes was doing so well.....and then when Mike whacked him, he suddenly became this shot to bits has-been. He got whacked clean and hard, and it was not that much to do with his age/inactivity.

    Fact of the matter is that any version Holmes does not beat Tyson. He hadn't the chin/recovery skills of an Ali to survive 12. Yes, he took a good shot, but he was on queer street several times from fighters not near as brutal as Tyson for finishing.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 48,397 ✭✭✭✭ walshb

    Otiz is not great. Not near it. Has beaten nobody. Old man when Wilder fought him

    I'd back all Tyson's championship fighters to beat Luiz Ortiz. And Tyson himself would have taken him out in a few rds tops.

    He is just not that good...

    Dillian Wyyte, maybe a notch higher level......

    Post edited by walshb on

  • Registered Users Posts: 48,397 ✭✭✭✭ walshb

    Meant to respond here. I was not implying that he was a turkey. But he does not have a good skillset from what I see. That's all.

    Big, awkward and has a right hand power punch...

    Out of 10 for skillset I'd be going 4/5 here, compared to a 9 for say Bowe/Holyfield/Lewis/Tyson.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,777 ✭✭✭ squinn2912

    Yea I had intended posting about it a couple of times. I think it would be a brilliant contest. AP was some force in his pomp whatever about the juice. Wlad got away with a lot of stuff in that fight.

    I think Tyson may have to get up from a kd but ultimately around round 8 or 9 I think he’d have wore AP down and slowed him enough to get him out with two kds and rst finish. Haha I’m reading as I’m replying and it’s like listening to myself. I do think it’s a 70-30 match up.

    Ach yea Bowe-Holyfield was unreal but I did think there wasn’t much defense. I’ll get a rewatch at it and post with a bit more accuracy, my memory could be hazy on it. I do think Bowe allowed himself to be hit and anyone who does that is in trouble with Wilder. He was a bit lazy at times too and I felt could have been trimmer at times. Dunno about Foreman but that’s why I think Lewis beats him. I often say I think the earlier the more likely for Bowe to win and then later it’s all Lewis but I think Lewis really fancied that one and Bowe didn’t. Could Bowe take Lewis’ right cross? Battle of the jabs wouldve been fantastic. Foreman himself allowed himself to be hit. I could see Bowe stopping him late with cleaner work all night. He’d wanna be mobile for it though.

    All in all with Bowe Wilder I think Bowe. Don’t think Wilder could stand up to him and he’d jab the head off him. Fury Bowe? I think Fury but only just. I think he wins that on points but it would be an enormous test of his fitness. Much more of a test than Wilder gave him and in all three fights he was blowing hard and Wilder wasn’t good enough to sense that and get after him. Bowe gets him in trouble and it’s another story.

  • Registered Users Posts: 48,397 ✭✭✭✭ walshb

    Stories that AJ looking for new trainer(s) for Usyk rematch.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,777 ✭✭✭ squinn2912

    If he has any sense at all that’s what he needs. There were problems with himself during that and other fights but the corner did little for him. He doesn’t really listen to what they do tell him either and there’s no sense of him feeling like only for them in any fight. Far too passive. Anyone linked with him?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,639 ✭✭✭✭ eagle eye

    Holmes was the same age fighting Tyson as Wlad was fighting Fury.

    And just because somebody was a light heavyweight doesn't mean they aren't good enough for heavyweight. Like he knocked out his other two opponents at heavyweight.

    Also we have a cruiserweight world champion now holding a bunch of heavyweight belts and might be a champion for a few years. We'll see over the next few fights just how good he is.

  • Registered Users Posts: 33,639 ✭✭✭✭ eagle eye

    He really should go to Abel Sanchez. Look what he did with Joe Joyce. If AJ still has it he'll put him back in top.

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,176 ✭✭✭✭ loyatemu

    there are so few big fights at HW that all there is to do is endlessly argue about whether Tyson was any good.

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,121 ✭✭✭ normanoffside

    Damn, I had been eyeing up a bet on a Wallin points win. Was about to put it down at 9/2 on Boyles.

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,446 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright

    You can't compare how fighters are just because of there age Wlad got better as he matured, He was miles better than a already retired Holmes was at that age, Sure look at Mike who was past his best by 25

    Usyk was 221lbs when henwon the title Spinks was 200lb big difference,

  • Registered Users Posts: 33,639 ✭✭✭✭ eagle eye

    Wlad was done when he fought Fury. He'd been going downhill for quite a while.

    So now 20lbs is huge? How on earth did Joshua beat the nearly 50lbs heavier Ruiz?

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,446 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright

    No there a huge difference between a 200lbs heavy weight & being a 220lbs heavy weight, As you just pointed Ruiz would have been 83lbds heavier than Spinks ,

    Not really he wasn't great against Jennings but he had ko'd out 3 of his last 5 opponents ,

  • Registered Users Posts: 544 ✭✭✭ AdrianG08

    I'm not a Fury lover like a good few posters on here, but to say Wlad was done is nonsense. He nearly took out Joshua 2 years later. Hindsight is always used to fit a narrative.

    Wlad was a fine champion but he always used his size advantages to outmatch an opponent, and his pseudo intellectual ways of trying to psyche people out. He had no idea how to deal with Fury, he was spooked. Fury would turn up at one press conference, compliment him, call him a great champion, the next day he was mouthing off in his face. He genuinely could not figure out if the guy had mental health issues or if it was gamesmanship.

    Couple all of that carry on with his inability to be able to pin Fury down, giving up his usual size advantages etc.. he wasn't done he just had no answer to it. The fight was razor close, but all this crap about Wlad being afraid to pull the trigger, its ok pulling the trigger (i.e big straight right hand) when your opponent is standing right in front of you).

    Chances are the likes of Usyk would have beaten Wlad too, not too many fighters on his resume with a great degree of movement.

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,446 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright

    Has Hearn spoken on Whyte v Wallin , will it ever happen now , i wonder what the ocntract situation is there

  • Registered Users Posts: 544 ✭✭✭ AdrianG08

    Is Wallin a voluntary defence of that WBC international title? I'd be trying to get out of that one if I was Whyte, so much at stake (potential shot at Fury), handier tune up on the menu for Hearn maybe.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,657 ✭✭✭ Joeseph Balls

    Isn't Whyte WBC mandatory for Fury?

    So this fight with Wallin just jeopardized that if he lost? He had nothing really to gain from it but a potential fight with Fury to lose?

    Am I right in thinking that?

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,777 ✭✭✭ squinn2912

    Let’s say that is right… how does Fury Whyte go? Does Whyte put up a better show than Wilder did? As well as wilder dug in he was a beaten docket for long n long in that fight

  • Registered Users Posts: 48,397 ✭✭✭✭ walshb

    Whyte doesn’t have Wilder’s range and height to be a problem..and, he’s far more predictable than Wilder. That’s not a compliment to Wilder, more an observation as to his awkwardness.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,351 ✭✭✭ Littlehorny

    Very hard to predict Fury vs Whyte fight. There is so many variables.

    Fury was not in as good a shape for Wilder 3 as Wilder 2, will he be in worse shape for Whyte?

    They have no common opponents so hard to judge on that score, I personally think Wilder is useless from a boxing point of view so Whyte is a better boxer imo.

    Whyte jabs a bit and has a left hook, will be hungry to prove himself, is strong. But Fury is the better fighter/boxer but will the real Fury turn up?

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,777 ✭✭✭ squinn2912

    They both fought Chisora twice each. Perhaps a different type of Chisora I’ll give you.

    I agree I think whyte is a much better boxer than wilder even if wilder would likely ko him. I think whyte is a sterner test

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,111 ✭✭✭✭ AckwelFoley

    Whyte has done all he's going to do and no more. He's peaked.

    Only way he wins heavyweight title is if he gets a lucky punch

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,777 ✭✭✭ squinn2912

    I’m not so sure I agree with you on that. If he’s peaked then what is the peak? Rivas? I was at that fight and there’s another gear in him. Pov II? Finished old man that wasn’t fit for fighting in any case. Chisora? Those were two good wins based on the performances Chisora has pulled out in the last few years so maybe that will be Whyte’s best moment. In reality Povetkin I he messed up. It wasn’t completely agaisnt the run of play no but he had that fight in the bag. He can be careless but against Fury I don’t think that’s a ko like it was with Pov or aj.

    I’ve been reluctantly impressed at how he has improved over the years. Big Helinius will likely get a shot at Usyk if he beats aj again and I’d have Whyte well above him. He’s a lump of a man and he’s game as. Fury would have no respect for him either. I’d expect Fury to win but not easily at all. Outside of aj and Usyk what’s the challenge for him?

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,098 ✭✭✭✭ Hello 2D Person Below

    The only thing Whyte will do against Fury is enjoy the millions in his bank account afterwards.

  • Registered Users Posts: 48,397 ✭✭✭✭ walshb

    Please, for the sake of boxing, stop giving Whyte any chance here

    In pretty much any other era he'd be a journeyman

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  • Registered Users Posts: 544 ✭✭✭ AdrianG08

    Unfortunately in an era where most of the top guys would be journeymen, that makes the likes of Whyte and formerly Chisora contenders.