Heavyweight Boxing

yourdeadwright · 20-10-2021 4:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118047587#Comment_118047587

Because Spinks was a LHW , He was middle weight champion at the Olympics ,

Yes he won the heavy weight title but it was because he seen the right opportunity in Holmes , he was afraid to leave the dressing rom against Mike ,

Holmes was retired grand da when he got the call to fight Mike.

Remember the story of Don King knocking on his front door when he was two year retired one night looking for him to fight, Holmes said who do you want me to fight King said Mike Tyson below is Holmes own words ,

Holmes replied i can't beat mike Tyson Don said, 'What if I give you 3 ½ million dollars?,' and I said, 'Where's Mike at?' I'm just glad he didn't kill me. He knocked me down a few times, but I didn't feel it because the first time he hit me I was numb.

walshb · 20-10-2021 5:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118047873#Comment_118047873

A fight I was only thinking of the the other day, and although I'd go with Tyson via KO, I think AP is a style and size and makeup that could make this very competitive.

He's hard, tough, physiologically strong and suited to being good against Tyson. Tyson might not do the job with one shot, but I think his speed/power and overall better defense see him connecting a bit too much, and we see a Richard Steele like stoppage ala Razor Ruddock fight 1.

Watched Bowe-Holyfield last night: Wow. words cannot accurately describe its brilliance. Relating to HWs today, I am thinking that a Wilder-Bowe fight could be serious fun, and I'd give Wilder a fair chance of nailing Bowe for the KO. Bowe is perfectly in Wilder' eye line. The perfect height for Wilder to detonate very cleanly, and Bowe could be hit. It's why I think a 90s Foreman may well have walked through Bowe for the KO, assuming Bowe doesn't KO Foreman, and I don't think he does....after Lewis-Bowe, Foreman-Bowe is right up there as a fight I'd die for!

I will say that if Wilder cannot KO Bowe, then Bowe eats him up....such a skilled big man, and could punch.

walshb · 20-10-2021 5:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118048711#Comment_118048711

Yet you will hear some mention how Holmes was doing so well.....and then when Mike whacked him, he suddenly became this shot to bits has-been. He got whacked clean and hard, and it was not that much to do with his age/inactivity.

Fact of the matter is that any version Holmes does not beat Tyson. He hadn't the chin/recovery skills of an Ali to survive 12. Yes, he took a good shot, but he was on queer street several times from fighters not near as brutal as Tyson for finishing.

walshb · 20-10-2021 5:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118047105#Comment_118047105

Otiz is not great. Not near it. Has beaten nobody. Old man when Wilder fought him

I'd back all Tyson's championship fighters to beat Luiz Ortiz. And Tyson himself would have taken him out in a few rds tops.

He is just not that good...

Dillian Wyyte, maybe a notch higher level......

walshb · 20-10-2021 5:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118047219#Comment_118047219

Meant to respond here. I was not implying that he was a turkey. But he does not have a good skillset from what I see. That's all.

Big, awkward and has a right hand power punch...

Out of 10 for skillset I'd be going 4/5 here, compared to a 9 for say Bowe/Holyfield/Lewis/Tyson.

squinn2912 · 20-10-2021 8:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118049197#Comment_118049197

Yea I had intended posting about it a couple of times. I think it would be a brilliant contest. AP was some force in his pomp whatever about the juice. Wlad got away with a lot of stuff in that fight.

I think Tyson may have to get up from a kd but ultimately around round 8 or 9 I think he’d have wore AP down and slowed him enough to get him out with two kds and rst finish. Haha I’m reading as I’m replying and it’s like listening to myself. I do think it’s a 70-30 match up.

Ach yea Bowe-Holyfield was unreal but I did think there wasn’t much defense. I’ll get a rewatch at it and post with a bit more accuracy, my memory could be hazy on it. I do think Bowe allowed himself to be hit and anyone who does that is in trouble with Wilder. He was a bit lazy at times too and I felt could have been trimmer at times. Dunno about Foreman but that’s why I think Lewis beats him. I often say I think the earlier the more likely for Bowe to win and then later it’s all Lewis but I think Lewis really fancied that one and Bowe didn’t. Could Bowe take Lewis’ right cross? Battle of the jabs wouldve been fantastic. Foreman himself allowed himself to be hit. I could see Bowe stopping him late with cleaner work all night. He’d wanna be mobile for it though.

All in all with Bowe Wilder I think Bowe. Don’t think Wilder could stand up to him and he’d jab the head off him. Fury Bowe? I think Fury but only just. I think he wins that on points but it would be an enormous test of his fitness. Much more of a test than Wilder gave him and in all three fights he was blowing hard and Wilder wasn’t good enough to sense that and get after him. Bowe gets him in trouble and it’s another story.

walshb · 20-10-2021 8:57pm

Stories that AJ looking for new trainer(s) for Usyk rematch.

squinn2912 · 20-10-2021 9:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118050401#Comment_118050401

If he has any sense at all that’s what he needs. There were problems with himself during that and other fights but the corner did little for him. He doesn’t really listen to what they do tell him either and there’s no sense of him feeling like only for them in any fight. Far too passive. Anyone linked with him?

eagle eye · 20-10-2021 10:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118048711#Comment_118048711

Holmes was the same age fighting Tyson as Wlad was fighting Fury.

And just because somebody was a light heavyweight doesn't mean they aren't good enough for heavyweight. Like he knocked out his other two opponents at heavyweight.

Also we have a cruiserweight world champion now holding a bunch of heavyweight belts and might be a champion for a few years. We'll see over the next few fights just how good he is.

eagle eye · 20-10-2021 10:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118050401#Comment_118050401

He really should go to Abel Sanchez. Look what he did with Joe Joyce. If AJ still has it he'll put him back in top.

loyatemu · 20-10-2021 10:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118047232#Comment_118047232

there are so few big fights at HW that all there is to do is endlessly argue about whether Tyson was any good.

normanoffside · 20-10-2021 10:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118047347#Comment_118047347

Damn, I had been eyeing up a bet on a Wallin points win. Was about to put it down at 9/2 on Boyles.

yourdeadwright · 21-10-2021 8:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118050872#Comment_118050872

You can't compare how fighters are just because of there age Wlad got better as he matured, He was miles better than a already retired Holmes was at that age, Sure look at Mike who was past his best by 25

Usyk was 221lbs when henwon the title Spinks was 200lb big difference,

eagle eye · 21-10-2021 11:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118051737#Comment_118051737

Wlad was done when he fought Fury. He'd been going downhill for quite a while.

So now 20lbs is huge? How on earth did Joshua beat the nearly 50lbs heavier Ruiz?

yourdeadwright · 21-10-2021 12:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052511#Comment_118052511

No there a huge difference between a 200lbs heavy weight & being a 220lbs heavy weight, As you just pointed Ruiz would have been 83lbds heavier than Spinks ,

Not really he wasn't great against Jennings but he had ko'd out 3 of his last 5 opponents ,

AdrianG08 · 21-10-2021 12:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052511#Comment_118052511

I'm not a Fury lover like a good few posters on here, but to say Wlad was done is nonsense. He nearly took out Joshua 2 years later. Hindsight is always used to fit a narrative.

Wlad was a fine champion but he always used his size advantages to outmatch an opponent, and his pseudo intellectual ways of trying to psyche people out. He had no idea how to deal with Fury, he was spooked. Fury would turn up at one press conference, compliment him, call him a great champion, the next day he was mouthing off in his face. He genuinely could not figure out if the guy had mental health issues or if it was gamesmanship.

Couple all of that carry on with his inability to be able to pin Fury down, giving up his usual size advantages etc.. he wasn't done he just had no answer to it. The fight was razor close, but all this crap about Wlad being afraid to pull the trigger, its ok pulling the trigger (i.e big straight right hand) when your opponent is standing right in front of you).

Chances are the likes of Usyk would have beaten Wlad too, not too many fighters on his resume with a great degree of movement.

yourdeadwright · 21-10-2021 4:40pm

Has Hearn spoken on Whyte v Wallin , will it ever happen now , i wonder what the ocntract situation is there

AdrianG08 · 21-10-2021 5:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118054017#Comment_118054017

Is Wallin a voluntary defence of that WBC international title? I'd be trying to get out of that one if I was Whyte, so much at stake (potential shot at Fury), handier tune up on the menu for Hearn maybe.

Joeseph Balls · 21-10-2021 6:44pm

Isn't Whyte WBC mandatory for Fury?

So this fight with Wallin just jeopardized that if he lost? He had nothing really to gain from it but a potential fight with Fury to lose?

Am I right in thinking that?

squinn2912 · 21-10-2021 7:22pm

Let’s say that is right… how does Fury Whyte go? Does Whyte put up a better show than Wilder did? As well as wilder dug in he was a beaten docket for long n long in that fight

walshb · 21-10-2021 8:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118054671#Comment_118054671

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052701#Comment_118052701

Whyte doesn’t have Wilder’s range and height to be a problem..and, he’s far more predictable than Wilder. That’s not a compliment to Wilder, more an observation as to his awkwardness.

Littlehorny · 21-10-2021 10:42pm

Very hard to predict Fury vs Whyte fight. There is so many variables.

Fury was not in as good a shape for Wilder 3 as Wilder 2, will he be in worse shape for Whyte?

They have no common opponents so hard to judge on that score, I personally think Wilder is useless from a boxing point of view so Whyte is a better boxer imo.

Whyte jabs a bit and has a left hook, will be hungry to prove himself, is strong. But Fury is the better fighter/boxer but will the real Fury turn up?

squinn2912 · 21-10-2021 11:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118055527#Comment_118055527

They both fought Chisora twice each. Perhaps a different type of Chisora I’ll give you.

I agree I think whyte is a much better boxer than wilder even if wilder would likely ko him. I think whyte is a sterner test

AckwelFoley · 22-10-2021 8:13am

Whyte has done all he's going to do and no more. He's peaked.

Only way he wins heavyweight title is if he gets a lucky punch

squinn2912 · 22-10-2021 9:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118056207#Comment_118056207

I’m not so sure I agree with you on that. If he’s peaked then what is the peak? Rivas? I was at that fight and there’s another gear in him. Pov II? Finished old man that wasn’t fit for fighting in any case. Chisora? Those were two good wins based on the performances Chisora has pulled out in the last few years so maybe that will be Whyte’s best moment. In reality Povetkin I he messed up. It wasn’t completely agaisnt the run of play no but he had that fight in the bag. He can be careless but against Fury I don’t think that’s a ko like it was with Pov or aj.

I’ve been reluctantly impressed at how he has improved over the years. Big Helinius will likely get a shot at Usyk if he beats aj again and I’d have Whyte well above him. He’s a lump of a man and he’s game as. Fury would have no respect for him either. I’d expect Fury to win but not easily at all. Outside of aj and Usyk what’s the challenge for him?

Hello 2D Person Below · 22-10-2021 9:49am

The only thing Whyte will do against Fury is enjoy the millions in his bank account afterwards.

walshb · 22-10-2021 10:03am

Please, for the sake of boxing, stop giving Whyte any chance here

In pretty much any other era he'd be a journeyman

AdrianG08 · 22-10-2021 12:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118056559#Comment_118056559

Unfortunately in an era where most of the top guys would be journeymen, that makes the likes of Whyte and formerly Chisora contenders.

squinn2912 · 22-10-2021 1:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118056559#Comment_118056559

I disagree. If he were in another era and Mike Tyson KO’d him then you would be referencing him as evidence of Tyson’s greatness in any prime fantasy showdown. He’d be competitive in any era. He’s not great but he’s not awful and he has attributes that would make him a handful for anyone. He can and has beaten anyone outside of the top 3 or 4 now that Usyk has joined. He rattled aj - I’ve dismissed that in the past but looking more at aj he missed quite an opportunity in that 2nd or 3rd round. I’d like to see him vrs Joyce or Dubois if not for a title fight.

1995 had Bruno, Moorer, Seldon, Zolkin and Akinwande all in it I’d be betting on him against all of them and Foreman that year too.

I’ve looked at the 1985 (I was 1 so don’t remember it) and I’d have him lower down but would he beat Berbick, Weaver and dokes?

2005 Byrd, Rachman, Toney, Brewster, Ruiz, Barrett, Brock, Wlad, Peter and Valuev

That’s all just from a quick search of Ring Mag. I’m not his biggest fan. I think he’s an asshole but he’s at the upper end of the division at the moment and I think the division is better than a lot are giving it credit for. There were always turkeys in the top 10 or thereabouts.

walshb · 22-10-2021 1:27pm

No, Whyte I would argue a journeyman full stop. Based on purely what I have seen of him. Is never a real contender in some other eras.

if in Tyson’s 80s championship group I’d back all the others as bettter.

and yes, turkeys in all eras.

Heavyweight Boxing

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