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Man arrested after violent incident in Kongsberg; Norway

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Comments

  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No it doesn't mean that.

    What changes would you suggest Ireland make?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,692 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    I always wonder in these cases, what 'radicalising' involves.

    Is it a one-way thing, with the guy just consuming propaganda for days/weeks on end, with anger buiding up inside him until he snaps, or is there somebody actually in contact with him, luring him in and eventually egging him on to do something like this.

    With ISIS it seems more likely to be a two-way process, whereas somebody like Breivik seems to have just arrived there more or less by himself (he was engaged in lots of online 'debates' but there was notobdy specifcally encouraging him), but maybe I'm wrong about that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,580 ✭✭✭jmreire


    So ISIS, Al-Quaeda, Boko Haram et all. do not use publicity and the media to further their aims Danzy? And your experience living in Islamic Country's is what exactly?????

    Post edited by jmreire on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,253 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    This was in a shopping centre though wasnt it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,253 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Getting close, as in within touching range, would surely render a bow and arrow almost useless, its like trying to throw something at someone who is standing an inch away from you. Obviously there will still be some power to the arrow, but I still think you could take someone down with one. There is no one outside of Legolas who is pulling arrows and hitting targets at any great rate of fire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,507 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    You underestimate the skills of Mohammed bin Legolas. It's not so much the difficulty of a bunch of people piling on one guy with a bow as it is getting anyone to be that first person to not do the natural thing and run in the opposite direction.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,447 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    I'd say people didn't even know what was happening. The average person is walking around in a daze and might not even identify the bow as a weapon or make a connection between the guy with the bow and the person lying bleeding on the ground with "something sticking out of him". That's assuming that they even notice the injured person.

    Even in situations where firearms are used, people are slow to react and often afaik think that it is the sound of fireworks or they're witnessing a prank. Once they realise, as you say, who is going to be thinking clearly enough to override their instinct to panic and run. At that point, it doesn't particularly matter if it is a gun, bow or knife that us being used as chaos ensues.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    They are already. These groups are outlawed. We cannot and should not assume any Muslim is potential ISIS. We lived through the same discrimination ourselves and know better.

    It's a rather pathetic fact that we usually see white killers as lone wolfs, had mental issues, except when they claim to be Muslim it seems.

    When's the last time you heard anyone speak like that about Christianity when a protestor is driven over in Charlottesville or the FBI building is blown up or riots at the Capital building or after Breivik? Never.

    Another sad individual found an excuse to kill people over, because it suited his mental state. Nothing more to it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,605 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    Predictably (if sadly) enough, a local resident has been quoted by the NY Post as saying that the worst part of the attack was “all the hate against religion and race that comes with it.”

    Yes, worse than the deaths and injuries suffered is the blaming of moderate Islam and multiculturalism. These people clearly hold the lives of their neighbours as being worthless next to their ideology, yet think they are not the extremists.



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  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    i would consider the people like to local resident quoted above, the same as the neighbours telling reporters the murdered man was a nice quiet man etc, when he was the biggest scumbag around. They are just trying to protect themselves from future reprisals



  • Registered Users Posts: 468 ✭✭Shao Kahn


    I think you'll find religion plays a strong role in many of these incidents.

    I agree with the late Christopher Hitchens, religion really does poison everything it touches. (And I mean all religions, not just Islam)

    Religion played a huge part in Brevik's 2011 attack. Firstly, he despised Islam and anyone who enabled it within his country - particularly politicians. Secondly, he was a white supremacist who displayed many characteristics of a Christian fundamentalist. If you know anything about the history of white supremacy, it is deeply rooted in certain denominations of the Christian faith. And not by accident either.

    I have no problem with people's personal and private faith, so long as they are peaceful people and don't use it as justification to harm others. But organized religion has been a disaster in human history, and it is something which I sincerely hope dies off as soon as possible. The world will be a much better, safer and happier place once we have consigned these dogmatic cults to the rubbish bin of history!

    "Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives, and it puts itself into our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." (John Wayne)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭TomSweeney


    We could start with not treating it with kid gloves and critisise it where it deserves criticism.

    Take the Danish cartoons or the Charlie Hebdo murders - the media and world governtments reaction was to apologise to the fanatics.

    We had Irish examiner journalists tweeting that basically they should have shown Islam respect and so they woudln't have been killed - disgraceful.

    If every single paper around the world had published those cartoons then that would have been a huge message .. they can't kill them all ... but sadly they grovel and apologise - this emboldens the extremists, that and moderate Islam gives the extremists a path.


    Islam just needs to be treated the way christianity is , no fear ...

    Sadly it seems Islam is a sacred cow of the left, so it doesn't look like changing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,896 ✭✭✭Polar101


    So.. Norwegian police held a press conference about the incident.

    They said the perpetrator, Espen Andersen Bråthen, also used "stabbing weapons" in the attack, so not everything was done with a bow and arrow. He started with the bow inside the supermarket, but then lost it at some point during the event, and didn't have it with him later when he was attacking people in the street.

    They also said their theory about the perpetrator's conversion to Islam has "weakened" and that mental illness was the main reason behind the attack.

    https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/0G3qmM/politiet-siktede-brukte-stikkvaapen-i-angrepet-paa-kongsberg



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,526 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    Have the Norwegian Police mentioned how he got the other weapons into his possession when he was attacking other people outside the supermarket?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭TomSweeney


    I am no fan of Islam, but I was thinking the same since I saw the video, the guy looked more like a nutter that just said he was a Muslim to cause controversy more than anything, I'd say he believes in it as much as I believe in Scientology.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,844 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    I agree Islam should be treated like all other religions, try and find a single comment from me suggesting otherwise, please.

    But the comment I replied to stated

    "Just maybe there is a problem with the idealogy. While most Muslims are good people trying to livedtheir lives, more Islam generally means a more violent society in Europe and the middle east.

    Ireland needs to make changes now before we see more sh1t like this attack here"


    How does treating Islam like any other religion avert that posters fears?

    How does stating that there is a problem with Islamic ideology treat it the same as all other religions?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Or they simply didn't know him well. The time of close knit communities has mostly disappeared, and it's very easy nowadays to not know your neighbors beyond a few facts about his career, family, etc. To know someone's personality, you'd have to spend repeated or extended periods with that person.. that's hard to do with people you have no real connection with.



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