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What are some of your unpopular fitness related opinions?

13

Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 3,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭Black Sheep


    Yes, I've heard that's a good book.

    Becoming trickier for researchers to navigate all of this these days, I imagine, in our new world where some women have testicles and so on....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Cill94


    It doesn't matter because we have enough research on RT in the elderly to know that the benefits are massive for both sexes. It's literally the difference between being strong enough to look after yourself or needing full time care. If you want exact percentages then read the research! And yes, there are papers on elderly women.

    https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/34/1/18.long

    https://academic.oup.com/ageing/article/40/5/637/46876

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4205116/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Cill94


    Having a menstrual cycle doesn't change the principles of resistance training. Whether that even impacts training is dependant on the individual woman. Some need a deload week during that time, others can train just fine.

    Main difference between training for men and women is that women can handle more volume at a higher percentage of their 1RM.

    And there's actually not a lot of research on strength training for women, relative to the amount on men.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,916 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    Some other differences from what I've read advise women should focus on higher reps, less resting time between sets, slower lifting tempo and less explosive movements. And women generally need less rest days between sessions.

    And outside of resistance training, we can also possibly gain more from steady state cardio than men. Our ideal diet can also be different with women likely having a proportionally greater need for healthy fat. And when it comes to dietary adaptations like intermittent fasting, there has been very little study done on how it effects women despite there being potential evidence of it causing negative hormonal disruption.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 3,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭Black Sheep


    There are arguments in favour of higher rep ranges, shorter rest times and slower tempo for lifters of any sex if their goal is mainly hypertrophy / body composition. I guess maybe women might to have more aesthetic goals compared to men for their lifting. Someone focusing solely on developing top end strength might be training with lower reps and take longer rest periods, and they might more commonly be men but there's no reason a woman shouldn't train that way if they want.

    As for women and explosive movements, not sure what to say there. There are female Olympic lifters and athletes, they need to train explosive movements. It's true that women's hip structures, among other things, mean it might be more difficult than for a male trainee but that's biology for you.

    Do women need less rest? I don't know, I suspect individual variance - age, schedule, stress, diet, family status - is more relevant than sex.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,916 ✭✭✭✭iguana



    It has to do with the composition of our muscle twitch fibres. Male and female internal muscle composition converts differently with training. With women's Type 1 fibres having better response and men's Type 2a. This may be why there are studies showing women to be more resistant to fatigue and having faster recovery times. It really isn't something there is enough of a field of study on but from what we do have, it's what appears to be.

    As for individual variance, one could argue that when you account for age, schedule, stress, diet, family status, some women are faster or stronger than some men. But overall, men are undeniably faster and stronger. Male and female bodies have quite a lot of differences and while there will always be individual variances, it's almost a certainty that there are methods of training that will work better for women and others that will work better for men. Women being able to compete with each other in a type of methodology in a sport doesn't mean it's in the best interest of women physiologically. We can all do things that aren't good for us. And in fact, when it comes to competitive sport, especially at such an elite level, many athletes do things that are actively bad for their future physical health in order to be as good as they can in a specific moment. So while it's always good to pay attention to how humans of both sexes can get to the absolute top level of their activity. It's not always best to emulate it if you are aiming to effectively prolong your life and health.

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/apha.12234?deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=true

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10606825/



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 3,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭Black Sheep


    There are certain realities associated with biological sex but if you're asking are there programming principles which are inherently suited more to females than males... Yes and no. There is no sex-dictated optimal approach which once we recognise, that's that, because programming is goal-dependent irrespective of sex.

    There are some things to be aware of, like the capability of women to lift for reps a higher percentage of their 1RM than men, yes, but a woman who is training for top end strength is still going to need to follow broadly similar programming principles to a male, and the same goes for other goals, there may be differences but the way volume, intensity and frequency are used in programming are still more similar than not. A female lifter might will need to do (and tolerate) more high % volume, but she couldn't be said to be training optimally if the way she pursued top end strength was based on higher reps with shorter rest periods, for example. Actually, on the reps, rest periods etc. I still think it's likely you've confused a recommendation which was based on what most women's goals are thought to be versus what they should do based on sex.

    I don't know if you've ever coached female lifters but that would pretty much iron it out for you. A lot of the current female Irish olympic lifters who are doing well are pretty active and open on social media about their programming as well, you may be interested.

    Post edited by Black Sheep on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Cill94



    Higher reps is kind of meaningless without an intensity attached to it though. It's higher reps, at a higher percentage of 1RM then a man would do. So for example, a man would generally be able to do 3 reps at 90% of 1RM, whereas a woman might be able to do double that or more. The leading theory for why this is, is because women are not as efficient at recruiting high threshold motor units. Less resting time between sets is also something I've noticed women can typicall get away with better than men.

    Slower lifting tempo and avoiding explosive movements sounds like bro science to me. We'd have no female sprinters if that were the case!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,916 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    I figured the explosive movements meant specifically weighted explosive movements like, for example, certain exercises you might do with a medicine ball. Or possibly bodyweight movements like kipping pull-ups. I don't think it meant running or jumping, etc.

    I also didn't intend to suggest that women shouldn't do these things. Just that they aren't the most efficient way for women to build muscle and strength.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Cill94


    Sure, I get that. I just don't see any evidence that it's the case. And in lieu of science, it's reasonable to assume we have more in common than not where training responses are concerned.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 433 ✭✭GoogleBot


    consider getting manual handling training if planning to lift as heavy as 50kg doing forestry work. The least you want is to damage your back.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,666 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    If longevity/long term health and bulletproof-ness is the goal , where is the bottom of the U curve across all fitness metrics? at the far end Im sure its safe to say that being a larger power lifter or an ultra marathon runner are creating problems for their old age

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭Patsy167


    I've always liked the idea of General Physical Preparedness – "A strong work capacity across broad time and modal domains."

    In other words, the ability to perform a wide range of physical tasks requiring varied movements, loads and durations.

    10 ‘General Physical Skills’ that collectively outline the constituent parts of physical fitness. The general physical skills and an explanation of each are listed below…

    General Physical Skills

    Cardiovascular/respiratory endurance – the ability of body systems to gather, process, and deliver oxygen.

    Stamina – The ability of body systems to process, deliver, store, and utilize energy.

    Strength – The ability of a muscular unit, or combination of muscular units, to apply force.

    Flexibility – The ability to maximize the range of motion at a given joint.

    Power – The ability of a muscular unit, or combination of muscular units, to apply maximum force in minimum time.

    Speed – The ability to minimize the time cycle of a repeated movement.

    Coordination – The ability to combine several distinct movement patterns into a singular distinct movement.

    Agility – The ability to minimize transition time from one movement pattern to another.

    Balance – The ability to control the placement of the bodies center of gravity in relation to its support base.

    Accuracy – The ability to control movement in a given direction or at a given intensity.

    The aim with general physical preparedness is to be a good physical all-rounder, not say, a strength specialist. A true all-rounder will posses a balance of all of the general physical skills.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,601 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    my point was that there is a clear difference between men and women in the benefits gained from resistance training,

    is there?

    based on what?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,601 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Those 10 metrics are all valid. But they aren’t exactly distinct. Strength and power are different. But are pretty directly related. Speed is power and endurance. Endurance is based on cardio. Agility is power/balance/coordination.

    Accuracy, as described, is just coordination. I think in general, those 10 could boil down to 4 or so.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭Brid Hegarty


    Is it supposed to decrease your chances of pulling a muscle?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭Patsy167


    "TAKE HOME MESSAGES

    Static stretching prior to exercises does not reduce your risk of injury. Therefore performing these stretches as part of your warm up is not recommended. Perform a dynamic warm up that adequately prepares your body for the task at hand.

    However, flexibility and mobility training is actually very good for you – if you have a restriction in flexibility. It can reduce post exercise soreness and reduce injury risk if you do not have the requisite flexibility to perform the required movements of our sport, or it is contributing to your symptoms. Perform targeted, specific flexibility training if you want to improve your flexibility.

    Tight feeling muscles may not need stretching. Short muscles may need to improve flexibility, but tight muscles may be overworked, fatigue or weak. This particularly goes for postural muscles."

    There's some good reading on it here if you are interested - https://www.parmeliaphysio.com.au/the-stretching-debate-what-does-the-evidence-say/



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,167 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i don't think that's a particularly unpopular opinion though?



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,567 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Lifting weights will make you better at everything else you do.


    Elite cyclists lift a shed load in the off season.


    To be healthy into your old age being “strong” is a good thing. Being strong is actually quite easy to achieve at an intermediate level. To ignore it will cost you way more than you’ll gain.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,567 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    i have no idea if this is an unpopular opinion:


    Getting strong is simple. Lift 3 times a week and you’re grand. There’s an entire industry making that complicated

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,601 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    But what days, how many sets, what about reps, do i need a shake, do i have to train legs, i like this variation better, what about this finisher.

    If I go 3.5 days will I be overtraining?

    Too many questions, not time to gym.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,643 ✭✭✭✭Mr. CooL ICE


    Strength is never a weakness. Weakness is never a strength.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Cill94



    I would say it's unpopular for the mainstream for sure, maybe not within actual strength culture.

    From working in the industry I have also realised that the blame for complicated selling so well goes both ways. While there are people profiting off confusing people, there will always be a demand for that product from people who are quite happy to throw money at things that keep them comfortable. If everything is simple then you actually just have to put in the work, which is scary for a lot of people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭Patsy167


    It comes down to marketing - difficult to generate a sales business on the back of a simple message of lift "3 times per week". In the same way it would be hard to have a diet business selling the simplified message of that “calories in, calories out”



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,567 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Yep, there's a serious about of repackaging the same ideas going on

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,666 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Dont be tyrannised into keeping to a weekly routine , if I had to guess I get everything done twice over a rolling ~9 day period. and just have a bunch of mental If/thens for rest days

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users Posts: 373 ✭✭JimmyCorkhill


    I know you are joking, but questions on reps & sets are fairly valid questions that someone relatively new would/might ask if the goal is to specifically get stronger.

    Anyway, it reminded me of this program, which I started a couple of weeks back having tried it a few years back.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2057311400/want-a-simple-program-to-get-stronger/p1

    The first few posts in the thread always give me a chuckle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,601 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Keep it simple. I train every other day and manage ~4-5 sessions per week.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,601 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Reps and sets are important generally. I was referring to treating a specific number as it has specific magical properties. Like that "7s" for biceps curls (7 full reps, 7 top half reps, 7 bottom half) that was around a few years go.

    "You have to do 5 reps. If you mix up 4-6s is won't work"



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 3,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭Black Sheep


    I agree in general that matters are "over complicated" unnecessarily in respect of the advice people need to hear, for what stage they are at and what their goals are. However, it's understandable, since people within the industry are making a living selling content, and there's always going to be pressure to be new (Or, controversial, whatever works).

    And yes, as Cilian says there are people who spend their time looking for that content because they're either avoiding doing the work or are getting supbar results because they're putting in a subpar effort, and no one likes to recognise that in themselves, it's not just an industry issue.

    However...

    Although "Lift 3 days a week and you're grand" is advice that will get a green light from a lot of people, because immediately their minds go to well-known and successful whole-body linear progress novice strength progressions... If someone is not a novice then it may not be as simple as "lift 3 days a week".

    At the end of the day, programming is about frequency but also intensity and volume and manipulating the whole 3 requires going beyond a 3 day training schedule, especially after novice. Programmes acrue more days in order to address the need for added volume, and body part splits come in to manage recovery. As much intensity as can be managed always has to be there, the creation of mechanical tension in the muscles increasingly being understood to be just indispensable for progress.

    So yeah, post-novice 3 days a week might kind of limit someone, you might want them to be able to go to a 4 day upper / lower split or something like that.

    Really it's as long as a piece of string, someone could be told they should lift 2, 3, 4, 5 times a week and depending on their goal and their training history that might be the right advice for them. It's not always over complicating it, unfortunately the truth is that really good programming after novice gets ... Not complicated ... But it definitely requires greater knowledge / experience to be optimal Actually, I guess it does get complicated, because more complexity is required over time. The cover of Practical Programming by Rippetoe and Baker has a graph illustrating this, funnily enough.

    In fact, isn't that why so many people who become involved in strength training seem to struggle to actually progress past novice. They run an LP and then years later they're stuck with broadly similar numbers , and they're repeating LPs endlessly and fruitlessly. Intermediate programming is nowhere near as well understood by the general training population.

    Post edited by Black Sheep on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Cill94


    Some good points here man. I would add that I don't think most people get stuck in the intermediate phase because of a lack of training complexity (as in failing to adequately structure the programme). That can be one aspect, but I think the main hurdle is that everything just gets so much harder once those newbie gains are gone. You really need to sacrifice a lot more time and effort, while yielding less and less results than before.

    Most people reach this point, and whether consciously or subconciously, just don't do the work required both in and outside the gym to drive progress. Which is fine. The only people who need to make training their number one priority are professional athletes. I wouldn't be willing to stop having the odd night out just to add a few extra kilos to my squat.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 3,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭Black Sheep


    That is true about effort.

    I think part of why many people stall early or abandon linear progressions is that they are inadequately prepared for the fact that the difficulty is backloaded to the last 1/4 or so of the programme. Everyone feels great about their 3x5 or 5x5 squats until they actually enter the end game when it requires a bit of focus if you want to make the lifts on a given workout.

    And then, if entering intermediate programming, there is the depressing realisation that except for a deload week squats might never be as easy as they were during that novice stage ever again. Texas method is a classic follow on from SS and it is pretty gruelling. It’s not all doom and gloom but certainly as you say, the question of how hard someone wants to work for their numbers becomes less abstract and a question for now not the future.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,666 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    I'd set different goals when diminishing returns are too high, why "waste" a year trying to get an extra 10Kg on squat or deadlift for instance when you could focus on doing something new like a nordic curl.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 3,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭Black Sheep


    Not sure if you’re being serious or not here!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭Patsy167


    Possibly an entry that's more suited to an underrated thread, but plain old consistency has got to be one of the most under appreciated fitness concepts.

    It's great seeing people getting their exercise done year-round without any excuses. They may not have perfect bodies, perfect form, or go all-out every session but they consistently clock-in and check off workouts without any drama. Not worried about about having a a perfect routine or the perfect diet, just happily keeping things ticking over.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Cill94


    Yuppp. I used to love squats and now I hate them. Doing a PR set for anything above 5 reps these days is brutal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,666 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    if the suggestion was that people get demoralised when gains are hard to come by, then why not expand goals into other areas that are maybe power, mobility or endurance related, a very general comment of course but for every 100 people that join a gym and stick with it only a minority of those will even have a goal of lifting heavy being their main thing

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 3,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭Black Sheep


    Right, you were being serious - OK! I thought you were being ironic.

    Well, what you said was "I'd set different goals when diminishing returns are too high, why "waste" a year trying to get an extra 10Kg on squat or deadlift for instance when you could focus on doing something new like a nordic curl."

    Without knowing what our trainee's lifts are, and whether he has in any way tapped them out, it's not really possible to say he is into diminishing returns, first of all. If he's an advanced lifter then potentially yes, he might be into diminishing returns to spend a year adding 10 kilos if his goal is something broadly unrelated (Performance in another sport, for example, or perhaps hypertrophy).

    But most people don't get demoralised by ongoing hard training because they're at the stage of diminishing returns, they never get that far.

    Complete anecdote, but in men who are doing the big lifts they often seem to start to question it when they hit somewhere between them squatting one and a half times bodyweight and two times bodyweight, that seems to be the point where they suddenly discover that they are interesting in "trying something different for while". Later, they might come back and the cycle repeats itself, which is why in a commercial gym you'll often see blokes squatting the same weight ranges year in, year out.

    In your second post you suggested that if people get demoralised when gains are hard to come by, they should effectively change goals.

    Well yes, that's exactly what people do. It gets too hard, they do something else. That's grand, but it's kind of funny because don't they realise that's inherently how things like beginner linear progress programs work? They get harder as you go on, and that's also how adaptation is driven. If you go off and do something else all that it means is you immediately start to detrain and that top end strength you worked to gain likely goes back down towards baseline, depending on what you're doing after that.

    Worth mentioning that the close cousin of this is when people are actually still progressing but they program hop to something else out of sheer inability to stick with something.

    The search for "something new" is constant and I understand the pull myself.

    Not sure what's so fascinating about nordic curls btw... They're an assistance movement you can put towards the middle or end of any lower body workout, not particularly sexy I would have thought.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Cill94


    I think Dave Tate or Jim Wendler once said that they noticed that the lifespan of a customer in the strength industry is usually about 2 years, which is also (probably by no coincidence) when it starts getting significantly harder to make progress.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,666 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    I dont disagree with all that, your X1.5 times body weight squatter anecdote or hypothetical is faced which choices, broadly speaking they have milked any lifestyle benefits/longevity/appearance out of it, if they are really excited about getting to X2+, absolutely go for it, you cant do your hobby wrong. As for "something new" I'd say complementary instead, which when added up would have greater all round benefits in terms of longevity etc.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,666 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    does that mean that people dont want to pay trainers after 2 years or they stop doing the gym completely?

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭Stone Deaf 4evr


    One of my favourite Jim wendler quotes was somethign along the lines of 'you can do all the analysis you want, and try all the different variations you like, but a the end of the day, to get stronger, you gotta stop f*cking around just just put some more weight on the bar'.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 3,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭Black Sheep


    You think squatting 1.5 times bodyweight yields almost all the benefits someone can get for appearance, longevity etc? That would be male trainee squatting 120kg at a bodyweight of 80kg …. Even for 5, I don’t know that it’s a benchmark where I would say that’s the point where beyond that is niche powerlifting…

    It’s at or close to where a lot of people throw the towel in but that is not proof of any inherent value.

    If someone program hops and has the wherewithal to program in a way that js “complementary” that doesn’t see them losing ground on what they have built strength wise, fine, but that’s not what actually goes on, is it? But it sounds good alright.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Cill94


    I interpreted in terms of quitting strength training.

    Have observed this myself a few times before. People get engrossed in the idea of lifting. Buy all the equipment, watch hours of youtube videos, try every programme under the sun. Then plateau for long enough to realise that, as Wendler said, actually you just need to get some more weight on the bar without getting hurt. That's not a fun prospect for everyone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,654 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    I've often done Nordic Curls as part of a programme. Good exercise that complements other lifts.

    Most good programmes are well rounded and there is plenty of scope for exercise variation.

    I often started blocks of training, after a competition, where I didn't do the competition lifts but did variations i hadn't done much of before because of the novelty value and also not really having numbers to aim at...you'd just lift and go with it.

    I don't think one can say that they have extracted all the benefits beyond purely lifting heavier just because the rate of progress is slower and it's harder.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 3,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭Black Sheep


    After novice I do like either a rotating lifts or conjugate approach, provided there is a bit of cop on involved. Either approach can be compatible with holding and improving strength on the big three, if that is a concern.

    On accessories I believe you can switch it up but again you have to know what you’re doing but we can assume that if it’s post novice. At that stage hopefully movements have been identified that work best for the individual anyway.

    Must admit it is only relatively lately that I zeroed in on which accessory movements have the best resistance profiles and were also pain free for me. If I’m doing biceps, triceps, shoulders or upper back and I have access to a cable stack, better believe I am using it. With free weights I have some good options too but I had to sort through and ID what worked for me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Cill94


    To this point I’ve found variation to be pretty useless for making the actual lifts go up. I just got better at those variations, and worse at the ones I cared about.

    I’ll still use some variations now and then, but it’s really just for a psychological break or a way of deloading.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,328 ✭✭✭the baby bull elephant


    Have to say doing high bar and SSB squats in my most recent block seem to have done wonders for my squat. Conversely my deadlift seems to be suffering from the lack of RDLs and Good Mornings.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 3,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭Black Sheep


    I think at the end of the day it may be individual, and also the programming needs to be really on point. If it works then the numbers won't lie: My squat and bench did go up on conjugate, deadlift has not.

    The way my conjugate is set up it's also very dependent on doing the high volume of assistance and accessory work as if it matters almost as much as the main lifts, and also you have to put in a good showing on the dynamic / volume day.

    I enjoy the variety of conjugate but if I were getting weaker on it you better believe I would drop it!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,601 ✭✭✭✭Mellor




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