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What are some of your unpopular fitness related opinions?

  • 31-08-2021 4:03pm
    Registered Users Posts: 1,725 ✭✭✭Patsy167

    Thought this might be a fun discussion topic to get some chat going on this forum - What are some of your unpopular fitness or diet related opinions?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,725 ✭✭✭Patsy167

    Happened to be reading an article on Stoicism and sport recently and thought some of the quotes were great. They sound like they could have been written last week -

    Suppose, for example, that in talking to an athlete, I said, “Show me your shoulders,” and then he answered, “Look at my jumping weights.” Go to, you and your jumping weights! What I want to see is the effect of the jumping weights. – Epictetus, Discourses, I, 4 [1]

    Now there are short and simple exercises which tire the body rapidly, and so save our time; and time is something of which we ought to keep strict account. These exercises are running, brandishing weights, and jumping…But whatever you do, come back quickly from body to mind. – Seneca, Epistle 15 [2]

    And if you form the habit of taking such exercises, you will see what mighty shoulders you develop, what sinews, what vigour…. – Epictetus, Discourses, II, 19 [3]

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,901 Mod ✭✭✭✭Black Sheep

    I actually don't disagree with any of that.

    Someone can have a failing in a certain respect, and it's ok to say "that's a failing", that's not the same as condemning them. Dare I say this is the whole thing about Winston Churchill... He's not a monster because he let a famine happen in India, and he's not a saint because he propped up Britain against the Nazis.... People are nuanced.

    I have plenty of family members and friends who don't train, and yeah I might regret that equally I have plenty of my own failings in other areas I'm well aware of... Haven't been to mass in years. ;)

    I also didn't mean to convey a belief on my part that, for example, giving your all to training is on a par with discharging your duties as a good parent, good husband/wife etc.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,663 ✭✭✭✭silverharp

    Slightly tongue in cheek but using wrist straps to dead lift is dumb , train your grip strength and respect natural limitations ,or the other definite monstrosity (and probably not unpopular) of those mad arm sleeve yokes you see in some on line videos to do stupid heavy bench presses

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,590 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring

    Stretching is a complete waste of time

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,901 Mod ✭✭✭✭Black Sheep

    Great stuff. The resurgence of interest in the Stoics says a lot about the continuing value of their ideas and also I think the very fact that we can "get it" actually shows you there is a thread running from their thinking to ours.

    My only quibble is that I wish people would actually read the primary texts rather than going to the contemporary re-packagers out there, the people writing self-help books based on the Stoics, or making a living selling Stoic calendars and workbooks on Instagram. You can read Epictetus' "Enchiridion" in an hour probably, it's practically bullet points and very accessible. No need for a middle man!

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,901 Mod ✭✭✭✭Black Sheep

    On the bench sleeves - I think you might be talking about a slingshot. If you're not a powerlifter then there's no need to use them, and not every powerlifter sees value in them. But they're not really stupid in any sense, just a very niche way of overloading the bench.

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,901 Mod ✭✭✭✭Black Sheep

    I'll throw in a few more for the craic.

    1. Compound barbell lifts are overrated for hypertrophy and physique goals.
    2. People seem incapable of understanding the continuing utility of machines for particular goals, which might go hand in hand with my point above, it's like people are only possible of holding in their head whatever is the popular training modality of their time.
    3. People still don't understand the pros and cons of compound versus isolation work, which to use and when, and how to perform isolation work effectively. See 1 and 2.
    4. Lots of people still don't understand programming in general and are doing a program at odds with their goals and where they are in their training. Novices running intermediate programmes that have them progressing at a snail's pace when they could be running a linear progress etc. Or running a linear progress for years on end and never getting beyond a certain stumbling block.
    5. Stretching is mostly bullshit, but I still do it.
    6. Abdominal training is largely unnecessary and unrelated to having visible abs.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭JayRoc

    I think he is actually talking about a bench shirt but I could be wrong. And yeah, slingshots definitely have their uses if done correctly

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,109 ✭✭✭AllForIt

    If you are overweight you can put on muscle and be on a calorie deficit at the same time. The general consensus on this is that you can't unless your a noob to weight lifting and it will only last a short time. Because I've maid gains and lost lots of weight over the last 6 months and I'm not even particularity young or a noob.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,328 ✭✭✭the baby bull elephant

    Definitely suits the thread and maybe this is my controversial opinion (as someone who deadlifts with a mixed grip) but deadlift isn't a grip exercise. There's lots of other things you can do to train that aspect. If we all respected our natural limitations we'd pull double overhand and get very little benefit to our posterior chain.

    Another one which depending where you say it seems to be controversial: if you are comparing your strength to other people you shouldn't include the non-lifting population or the casual lifter who has no clue what they're doing.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,328 ✭✭✭Cill94

    On the deadlift thing, I think straps can be useful but far too many people use them as a crutch.

    If you can't deadlift at least 60-70% of your max without straps then I think that's a bad sign for grip strength.

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,901 Mod ✭✭✭✭Black Sheep

    I think we discussed straps before… I agree that deadlifts should be without them up until quite a high % of 1RM, as Cilian says. But for work sets, if you can get them done without straps then they’re, well, not very taxing.

    The comments by Baby Bull Elephant about deadlifts not being a grip exercise… Yep, that’s it. If you want to train your grip, train your grip!

    Deadlifts with straps allow you to tax the posterior chain to a far greater extent, that’s where the training effect of deadlifts are. I’d go so far as to say that if you never use straps ask yourself how much of what you’re doing is junk volume.

    Also… If you don’t use straps near max because they’re not “natural” then by that rationale… What about the barbell, collars, plates and rack, they are not organic naturally occurring structures either.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,328 ✭✭✭Cill94

    Yeah I don't see an issue with using straps for really taxing sets. Only people who need worry about that having a negative effect are powerlifters.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,693 ✭✭✭Deano7788

    Depends on the context really. I use straps in the exact opposite manner to that described, in that I only use them on relatively lower percentages where the reps are high to protect my hands, but for lower rep work I'd never use them. As an example, this block on my first Deadlift day I have a single which is without straps, and then back off 8s with them, and then the second day is triples where again I won't go near them (and I promise my work sets can be very taxing without them 😉).

    But I'm specifically training for powerlifting where if I can't hold onto it without straps it's useless to me, and the only grip work I've found carries over is heavy strapless work and then at times incorporating long holds at the end of sets.

    So yeah, context is important and the training effect being aimed for.

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,509 ✭✭✭matrim

    Similar to the strap conversation. Unless you’re lifting serious weight you don’t need a belt.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,725 ✭✭✭Patsy167

    Note to self on this one - Need to get the following tattooed as a reminder...

    Many get fitness and nutrition advice they need and say:

    “I already know that.”

    If you aren’t acting on it, you don’t “know it" in any meaningful sense.

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,901 Mod ✭✭✭✭Black Sheep

    Good point about straps and deadlifting in a meet, and prepping for same, agree actually.

    I also use straps for higher rep sets of things like barbell rows and RDLs if reps are high.

    As for belts. I think if someone can brace effectively they might be able to do without one in their training. Some people get belts and never use them properly but generally I do think they are an aid to getting people to brace hard, and that means better performance and a super stiffness that I think probably does protect the low back. I put my belt on when for squat sets of about 80% 1RM and up. Today I will do 70% 10x3 for my dynamic day and will leave it off. In terms of the weight itself I think probably someone does need to be squatting at least bodyweight and a half before this is relevant to them but I actually don’t know for sure.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,590 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring

    Being able to cycle to the cafe doesn't either 😁

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,663 ✭✭✭✭silverharp

    my idea of a warm up is walking to the gym and maybe sitting in an Asian squat for a min. I'd see stretching as part of mobility work but ideally combining ROM and strength, Jefferson curls, good mornings and the like.

    Here is one, the fitness industry over promotes eating protein to sell you supplements.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,328 ✭✭✭Cill94

    Ah, now warm-up is a totally separate issue. If you have no flexibility problems, then your warm-up need not be anything other than the exercise you're training with. (And that is a very unpopular opinion 😁)

    And yes I'd agree with that. The supplement industry generally overstates the importance of everything it sells.

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,901 Mod ✭✭✭✭Black Sheep

    I feel like warm-ups really depend on the trainee and what they're doing.

    If someone is going to be doing a higher impact workout, perhaps involving a movement like running / sprinting at 80%+, or box jumps, then for safety a warm-up is definitely required. If the trainee is 35-40+ then that's non negotiable. I learned this the hard way, doing sprints with an acquaintance, and his achilles went with a sound like a gunshot. I drove him to hospital and he was getting it stiched back together the next morning.

    If someone is doing some kind of metabolic conditioning or CrossFit style workout, same thing. Personally I'd be looking at a few rounds of a mixture of dynamic warm-up / mobility movements and body weight exercises. It should be bordering on challenging without being taxing. I don't think the classic CrossFit approach to warming up ( is off the mark, for people going on to do a high intensity workout. Although in that article he straw dummies what a 'traditional' warm-up is... a 20 minute bike ride is OTT.

    If the workout is something like a conventional upper or lower body lifting session then yes I'm more inclined to agree that your warm-up can be a couple of sets with the bar on the first movement, then several ascending sets.

    BUT... I think quite often people phone this in. Several sets, but they're just ticking boxes, and then they're into their work sets and they're not really physically and mentally ready to do their best. I include myself in this. You don't want to overdo the warm ups, but I think you do need to put enough into them that your body temperature is slightly elevated and your tissues and your joints are ready to actually do your work sets well.

    A lot of us are against the clock, and it suits us to warm up in an abbreviated way, but in the past when I've had the time I've done a more active warm up where I might row 500m, or similar, and then onto the bar. If it's cold in the gym then that row is a kick start to get the body temperature rising, and it's not enough to interfere with anything. Conversely if it's extremely hot and you're already in a light sweat before your workout, you can shorten things down more than you usually would.

    Another thing I have done, but generally have not persisted with, is the Jim Wendler approach of a few sets of box jumps to 'wake up' the CNS before lifting. When I do it, it feels great, but there's a lot of things I "know" are good ideas and don't do.

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,663 ✭✭✭✭silverharp

    Age is one crucial factor for sure, and its certainly caught up to me with any kind of jogging/ running in the last 2 years. That Achilles problem you mentioned, i guess the question is, what is important warming just before you start, or building proper mobility into your week?. I take it that important now that I aim to do 2 sessions of just mobility type stuff a week plus adding in where I can during the week. So lots of Tibialis raises, reverse steps up, anything that would come under "bullet proofing X", on the day now thankfully all the running related niggles I was getting I dont get anymore.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,328 ✭✭✭Cill94

    I definitely am in favour of warm-ups, I just don't think there's often a need to do anything besides the exercise, starting from very light and building to a higher intensity. If you're going to sprint, you could start with a walk, then a jog, run, fast run, etc. All the target muscles are 'activated', you work on technique, and you body temp increases.

    If you need to do a couple things to work on mobility issues on top of that, that makes sense too. I do see a lot of time being wasted with stuff that has nothing to do with the demands of the exercise though. If I'm going to squat, I'd rather spend a few minutes with the empty bar, than roll around on the floor doing glute bridges, planks, etc.

    The amount of time that can be saved from cutting the fat off a warm-up is amazing.