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https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058419143/important-news/p1?new=1

Tory MP stabbed to death while conducting surgery for constituents

245

Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,047 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Was he on the right of the Tories?

    The man was described by CNN as "very centrist."

    Looking at his record, he seems to be anything from anti-fox-hunting to anti-abortion. That said, even if you're a centrist, as you say, you can have strong opinions any one particular matter and as a centrist you've got a fantastic opportunity to make enemies on both sides of the political divide.



  • Posts: 24,207 ✭✭✭✭ Nylah Unkempt Racquetball


    Awful thing to befall him, regardless of views which I thoroughly disagree with. No longer here to argue his case. RIP.



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Are you telling me this is about the word 'staunch'? Do you even know what the word means?

    I used the Brexit example because he was a staunch Brexiteer, just like Jo Cox was a staunch Remainer.

    The point I was making was that a box-ticking populist exercise has now claimed the lives of two people, if this did indeed happen because of Brexit. Did you miss that while you were foaming at the mouth because you misinterpreted the meaning of a word?

    Did you miss me call this domestic terrorism, twice?

    So yeah, I will call that faux-outrage. You took one word and took it to have negative connotations and then accused me of making an excuse for the scumbag who did this.

    You want to withdraw what you said now? If you are truly angry about this, you will do it.

    Or you can continue to be stubborn and try to find a way to spin my post in a way that you want to make me out to be condoning this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭hawley


    Irish media and politicians are responsible for propagating this type of hate. I made the point before saying how irresponsible our journalists and politicians have been in the wake of the Brexit vote. There has been a relentless avalanche of hate against anyone who supported Brexit over the last five years.

    Communication was the greatest fatality



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,407 ✭✭✭PropJoe10


    Absolutely disgraceful. RIP David Amess and condolences to his family.



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  • Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I can confidently say there's not a single elected politician or mainstream media outlet in the country that wouldn't condemn this attack. Just because Irish media and politicians have highlighted buffoonery or the UK's handling of Brexit does not make them responsible for a murder. If anything this more seems like you taking advantage of a pretty awful event to push an agenda.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    Or, y'know, just breaking news in what's been an always-on news cycle since the inception of smartphones...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,043 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    The UK has really gone downhill with this anti or pro Brexit ****. No matter how or where you state your opinion on the issue or on other divisive social issues. You should not be killed out in public for just doing your day job. You should have the right to keep yourself safe and protected when you carry out your duties in the workplace.

    What these attackers don't realize or understand is that their innocent victims are normal human beings just like us. They are not part of a some secret society or cult that can influence people in how they live their lives. These MP's are public servants going out there doing their work alongside their constituents. They have lives. They have families. They have a lot of self respect among other decent people out there in wider society.

    The two people who killed Jo Cox & Sir David Amess for expressing their own moral & political beliefs do not possess these normal traits that other people would have in their day to day lives. They are sick. They are evil. They are domestic terrorists.

    I don't even want to think or say when the MP's family members are hearing about this story being reported in the media at this time. Their lives must be going through the same state of perpetual hell within their own heads when an attack like this has happened occurred to their own loved ones. And now they may have to experience that horrible reality when it occurs outside normal people's doorsteps all over again.

    And for what purpose? What sort of message do these attacks send to other people in society? If your heads must be that sick to even inflict that sort of misery on people all over again. What do other innocent people say or think about you when you take part in carrying it out among people who live in your own community?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,392 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    I am surprised there has never been an incident such as this here in Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,692 ✭✭✭AllGunsBlazing


    This decade will be remembered for being completely bat **** crazy.

    Rest in peace to the victim. Horrible way to go.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 151 ✭✭Sue de Nimes


    Or possibly the attacker was provoked by some of the language used by the deputy leader of the Labour Party recently. As you say, hard to know at this stage.

    https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/19651144.david-amess-angela-rayners-tory-scum-comment-trends-twitter/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,173 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Poor example, the man craves attention, goes out of his way to get noticed, would suspect a lot of the stuff online about him originates from his own spindoctors,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,160 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    There's been a couple posts like this already on this thread.

    Why are you surprised? Ireland, thankfully has a largely engaged electorate and cohort of elected officials who know how quickly they might be removed from their seat. Consequently, there isn't the same separation between those elected and those who elect them as exists in some areas.

    We neither have the radically divisive 2 party system which exists in the US, or the 'status-quo' friendly FPTP system that exists in the UK, two countries where we pay close attention to when comparing their societies to ours.

    As a consequence of our system, I think people in Ireland, generally, feel they have a chance to elect politicians who align with their specific views and while we have plenty things to get upset about in terms of how our elected officials actually perform their duties, we don't have the radically divisive topics that again, they have in those comparable countries, which has already been pointed out. Although there are attempts to create a perception of there being radical division within Irish society, I hope it remains at the level we have seen with a few flag wearing constitution holding individuals and largely anonymous accounts online.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Is their any actual evidence for a motive yet? I think people need to wait and see before jumping to conclusions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,284 ✭✭✭✭L1011




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭milehip


    You may well have answered you own question there.

    Horrific news, RIP.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,374 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    I couldn't imagine an action that could do more damage to democracy. The communication between constituents and their representative is the core of politics by creating terror and fear in that vital conduit is a direct attack on democracy. In a church, at a meeting, it cannot be a coincidence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,132 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Shocking murder, god rest him. Where will it all end?

    I read earlier that unusually for a Tory (in my thinking anyway), the deceased MP Mr. Amess is a Roman Catholic. Not that it makes any difference, I just noted this fact in my head.

    May he rest in peace, and condolences to his family and wider circle. They must all be devastated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,369 ✭✭✭Ardent


    Rumours going around that the attacker is Somalian.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,392 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    Well, what I was getting at was more about the specific type of incident which occurred here rather than the political system as a whole. Here we had , I am presuming. a mentally ill individual with a grievance ,possibly incited by others, who stabs a public representative to death. It's not as if the deceased MP was even a radical, controversial ot extremely left wing figure who might be considered a likely target of some hate mob.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,642 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    This is the 4 attack in the 21st century in the UK with the first 2 in 2000. There is a lot of extremism and conspiracy nuts in the UK that we don't have here



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 726 ✭✭✭SupplyandDemandZone


    They also have a huge Islamic nutjob problem which we don't have here, yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187


    It seems he had some right wing views but was independent-minded, favouring the ban on fox hunting and campaigning for animal rights. Somewhat similar to Alan Clark perhaps (Alan Clark was regarded as a right winger but similar to Amess was anti-fox hunting and didn't allow it on his lands, he mentions it in his diairies). Seems he was popular across the house of parliament including among politicians who would have disagreed with him on most issues.



  • Posts: 2,825 ✭✭✭ Kimora Yellow Duckling


    I commend anyone that goes into Politics, not for personal gain but stand for what they believe in and fight for those they represent as long it is in good faith.

    By all accounts we held different views but Mr Amess was a decent family man, represented his continuents well over a sustained period and certainly did not deserve what happened him today.

    Politics as a whole has become extremely toxic and divisive in many countries. It would not surprise me if what happened in the UK happens here some day. It has happened in countries outside the UK.

    For that, as a whole I lay the blame at the door of Mark Zuckerberg, and the monster he has created which seeks to undermine democracy and stoke the fires all for maximum engagement and profit. Social media is driving people demented. Once people's views become radical enough, we see what happened today.

    **I've just read back on some of the comments on this thread and some posters are fit for the asylum probably having been fed regurgitated crap for the last 18 months. (paging HerrKapitan) **



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,642 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    We won't have one because we don't bomb the hole out of the middle east.

    They also had a huge Irish nutjob problem that almost took out a PM and that never really spilled over into targeting TDs



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,642 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    "I blame social media" says the lad posting on an internet forum



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 726 ✭✭✭SupplyandDemandZone


    Jesus that's an absolutely mad take on it. People have been murdered for years by extremist lunatics long before Facebook was around.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,989 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    So BBC are reporting that counter-terrorism police are investigating this murder so I guess likely nothing to do with his political views just an easy target. and that guy that blames everything in England on the Irish media's views on British politicians - crazy conspiracy theory stuff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,160 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Yeah, as others have said, once we know more about this incident, we'll have more thoughts/opinions on the potential for it to happen elsewhere.

    And certainly if the motivating factor was the persons own illness, then unfortunately that could happen at any moment, in any place. And there's no doubt we can't argue mental health services in Ireland are so good that they are likely to ensure someone gets the help the need in time.

    Irrespective of the views of Amess on Brexit or any other matter, or the views of the perpetrator in a similar respect, this type of action is never warranted in a functioning society.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 726 ✭✭✭SupplyandDemandZone




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