Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

It is precisely this thinking that "brexit is done, time to move on' that has allowed the Tories to make such an completely mess of it.

Brexit itself is fine, the wish to try something difference, the confidence to stake a path on their own terms is admirable. But that isnt what Brexit is.

Brexit is a shambles, a mess caused by ignorance, greed, lack of planning, lack of talent, lack of scrutiny.

A recurring call from Brexiteers now is that they simply want to move on from Brexit, it's been talked to death. Well of course they do. Because even they now acknowledge, if no publicly, that it is a disaster and why would they want to be called to task about it? They don't want the public to be reminded of their part in it. They want to be seen as the saviour from whatever is happening now, not the cause of it.

I agree that a return to the EU, in whatever form, is at least a generation away. But not because that is what people want, but because those in charge, including the media, want to make sure that people simply accept the new reality as if it was the only possible outcome.

Regarding those angry Leave/Tory voters, I'm searching every nook and cranny of my being but I just can't find any sympathy.

Yes I have about as much sympathy as I would have for a rich middle aged man having a mid life crisis and leaving his wife and kids to see what’s out there. Brexit is not a cause that would stir any sympathy.

As predicted the HGV driver issue is improving by pulling in drivers from other areas creating driver shortages there- here bin lorry drivers. Next up: bus drivers.

There were plenty on Question Time on Thursday night.

If you didn't see it, in a discussion about labour shortages, one woman said that it was because of "the elephant in the room" that no one would mention. i.e. Brexit. Another sudience member said that the current mess was a result of Brexit. No one spoke in defence of brexit, including the Conservative Nadhim Zahaw.

When Fiona Bruce asked the audience if anyone would defend Brexit there was silence. She reminded the audience that most of them had voted for Brexit. The man who blamed the current crisis as a result of Brexit admitted voting for it. But there was no happy, Brexit supporter in the audience.

It is clear that people are happy to discuss Brexit and it;s failure. And want solutions. Labour's policy of sticking there head in the sand and ignoring it will not work longterm. In fact , on the program Labour MP Lisa Nandy, was quite explicit in blaming Brexit for the problem and blamed the Consevative government for not see and planning for the problems, such as labour shortages, that Brexit created.

Labour just need to be more robust in their attacks on Brexit and they will find a ready audience.

I do agree though that Brexit cannot be reversed, probably not even in a single generation. The solutions to many of the current problems lie in closure alignment with the EU, entry into the single market. it is not clear though, considering the deterioration in relationships between the Eu and the current UK Government that any move in that direction would be acceptable to the EU.

Brexit just keeps on giving doesn’t it. The brexiteers just can’t admit that it was a complete folly.

When Christmas is a disaster it will be the fault of the EU but never glorious brexit. It’s like a religion

I don’t think it ever will. It’s acting like religion acts. No one can question the almighty brexit. The tories are the priests of it. Those who are against it are shouted down as remoners. The new heretics.

what other country could boris Johnson be leader ?

I mentioned in a post a few days ago that as long as the Brexit government and its supporters cannot even admit that Brexit is a problem and that it's failing badly, it's very difficult to see how they can remedy the numerous downsides. How can you solve a problem if you flatly deny the problem even exists?

We're into 'ideological regime in denial of reality' territory here.