Why do teachers dispute the two-tier pay scale?

So you're told something that's actually happened and you still find a way to deny it.

As for primary school teachers ''working'' into the evening. My local one most teachers arrive about 10 minutes before school starts and the car park is empty by 3;30.

It might come as a surprise but i pass it in the morning going to work and at times pass it in the afternoon. But just ignore that and keep telling yourself teachers ''work'' late into the evening

And being a teacher you're of course going to say that. Like plenty in the public sector you tell yourself whatever you like to make yourself fell better, no matter how many people show you examples otherwise.

It's also funny to see teachers say others get their knockers in a twist. Is there anyone who does that more than teachers? Vry few have complained more than them in the last 18 months. Or is this one of those times when it's unions who apparently don't replacement them are saying it?

Ah the classic copy and paste teacher reply. Again funny to hear teachers talk about others dispute what they say when they do the same. If teaching is so terrable why keep at it?

Who were teachers worried about when they demanded to be up top of the list for vaccinations? Until they of course hid behind the unseal ''it was the unions who wanted it not us''

Or how pregnant teachers became worried 2 weeks before schools reopened?

Khalessi is very concerned about observing Ramadan, you see.

The fact is, there is a two tier pay scale everywhere in society. Someone who entered a job 20 years ago is likely to have much better pay and conditions than their counterpart, with the same expertise and experience, who entered a year ago. The difference is teachers had a say in this when it changed for them, which they deny time and time again.

This point is totally moot anyway. No more money should be put in to salaries in education until resources in education are up to scratch. Infrastructure, staffing (including non- teaching related positions such as IT), FULL IT LITERACY AND EQUIPMENT for all teaching staff. Education sector salaries are not even a tiny priority.

A quick Google of the above will throw up many different metrics.

So tell me, how do you evaluate a teacher's performance?

Using the industry defined methods used to evaluate every other job that I outlined? You're essentially implying that they don't know how to evaluate teachers which is untrue, private institutions have been paying teachers per performance since forever with the best teachers getting paid very large amounts and bad teachers losing their jobs, the institute is an example in Dublin which hires the best teachers and poor performing teachers are let go.

How do you define how good a salesperson is? One could get the big account with the easy to manage customer and the other could get multiple smaller hard to manage customers. A good manager/leader will understand the impact of each salesman given their expected performance. This can be done with teachers as well, how long would it take a good principal to find out that an entire class of students is getting grinds?

This is how performance evaluation works, teachers shy away from it and their lowest common denominator (bad teacher whose students get grinds) drags them all down.

How does the institute figure out which teachers to hire and which to fire?

Evaluating impact of an employed individual is known, as you allude to, for teachers it is not all about the grades the class get for an abundance of reasons, however, the grades they are expected to get and whether the teacher exceeds that expectation can be one metric used to measure performance (after all, we're allowing teachers to give all their students expected grades now, do the same next year and compare it to what the students actually achieve, don't tell the teachers that it's being done though :)

I would argue that student outcomes are a key part of a teachers performance but is not solely a measure of the grades achieved by students, but of what they are typically expected to attain and the teachers performance against that metric. And that also this should be one of a number of metrics.

Again, the institute only goes after the best teachers, how do they make this judgement? The public service would not accept any such change but it would reward the better teachers in a more fair way than tenure length. It is manifestly unfair that a brilliant teacher with 5 years experience gets paid less than a bad teacher with 15 years experience.

Measuring productivity in a job is not hard, it doesn't always get it right, but the cream will tend to rise to the top. Length of tenure is an awful way to do things and doesn't encourage the behaviors that are desired in educators.

Who decides what they(students) are typically expected to attain? By what metricis that measured?

The Institute does not have as diverse a student population as a typical school. They ( from my understanding) are more about academic results than a holistic approach to education. I certainly don't want our education system to become a series of grinds factories. Do you? Education and indeed school life, is about so much more than results. I also would like to kno how we know they only go after the best teachers? Who decides that? What is "best" in that context?

You keep saying it is not hard to measure productivity in a job, yet ypu have not outlined howit canbe done in education. If it could be done fairly I'd welcome it. I just can't see how it can.

Also as regards measuring teacher performance on "enhancing school life". All that stuff is voluntary. Linking it to pay now would be cynical in the extreme. Let alone the mess you would have of overload of activities and clashes on the school calandar as people tried to reach some perceived acceptable level of involvement.