The creeping prominence of the Irish language

Completely agree.

Or imagine you had written Father Ted for an Irish language audience.

Millions of people would have missed out on a great modern piece of Irish comedy writing. Yeah sure, you could have subtitled it, but it's not really the same.

Producing something like that in English, doesn't stop any of the Irish language speakers from enjoying it - because they're all fluent in English. If there was something great produced on TG4, millions would miss out on it because they can't be arsed reading subtitles and can't be arsed learning a language that is basically useless to them in the vast majority of their everyday life.

I doubt very much if our ancient ancestors would have had the same idealistic view of their language as some of the modern proponents. Language was used for survival and efficiency of society - a pragmatic tool. And it is still largely used for that purpose to this day. The fact that our ancient traditions, culture and practices were tied up in the Irish language, is because that was the tool widely used during that time. Not necessarily because Irish is any more special than any other language - it was simply the tool of choice during that time.

The practices and traditions that our ancient ancestors considered important to their society, were inter-dependent on language of course, but it was those traditions that were mostly significant. Not which language they happened to be speaking at the time. Look at Britain - they spoke many different languages over the centuries - celtic / latin / germanic - but they didn't lose their cultural identity as a group of people.

The very fact that Ireland has a vibrant culture and a strong connection with our history and traditions - despite the vast majority of our people not speaking Irish - would seem to be very strong proof that a group of people do not lose their cultural identity, just because they stop speaking one language and start speaking another language. Otherwise we would have lost our identity as a people a very long time ago, when the Brits beat the language out of us - but we didn't. The language was not essential for keeping hold of our identity as a people.

Unless of course, you want to believe like I said, that the fluent Irish speakers over in the gaelteacht, are the sole gatekeepers of what it means to be Irish. And they alone have been responsible for keeping our cultural identity alive all these years... just by continuing to speak a language. It's a nonsense idea, but there are plenty of Irish language enthusiasts who are arrogant and naive enough to believe it. (not to mention insulting enough to suggest it to people's face).

A worn out cliche at this stage.

How does that work in the Americas, Carribean etc? If they haven't got their 'first languages' anymore they're somehow cultureless nonentities? Pure nationalistic herrenvolk snobbery.

I agree Irish speakers are no discriminated against just because someone doesn't speak to them in Irish.

However, they are discriminated against when the State doesn't speak to them in Irish.

The OP's beef seems to be that the State is at long last doing what the people have wanted for a long time - respect for language rights.

There's a subtle irony in your post.

On the one hand you say Father Ted couldn't have worked in Irish - "Yeah sure, you could have subtitled it, but it's not really the same."

Then you chastise Irish speakers for wanting to keep their language as a lens through which they contribute to Ireland's history and traditions.

Maybe what they have to contribute is not really the same through English?

No two languages are the same and a translation is fine, but as you say, it's not really the same.

Can you name one public figure, one of these arrogant irish-only gatekeepers of what it means to be Irish? I doubt even one exists.

It's a pity your experience of some Irish speakers is negative, but perhaps what you've experienced is their reaction to your dismissiveness of what they have to offer?

I was terrible at Irish in school, I actually hated it then. I'm not sure why maybe because I found it so hard to learn. But now 20 years later I wish I could speak it or have a better understanding of it. I love to hear it been spoken in person and try to speak a few words of it daily.

I was also terrible at Irish in school and for the last 20 years, i have spent it wishing that I had given it a better go in school. Last year, I got the opportunity to do an Intermediate Irish course through work and i loved it. I'm after getting a new found appreciation for the language that I wish I had when I was a kid. I've signed up to the next level of the course which actually starts for me again this Wednesday. I've always loved that we put a prominence on the Irish language in public spaces, like the train announcements for example. I feel so sorry for people who feel so put out by Irish being "imposed upon them" in their daily lives. It's not an imposition. I think it's actually a really nice thing that we do.

Try and go to most shops or run a business in Irish or ask someone on a date, the fact is 90 per cent of people are not fluent in Irish

Government body's and buildings have to have signs in Irish and English a large part of cafe retail workers are non national they don't speak Irish

Yeah speaking Irish is a right but the point is most people won't understand what you are saying

Culture changes over time in the 1800s many Irish people worked in the UK and America basically many Irish people decided it was important to be able to speak English to get a job or work most books and newspapers were published in English the no of people who spoke Irish or were fluent in it declined anyone that wants to can learn Irish ad they can learn music science etc one of the lessons of life is there's only a limited amount of skills you can learn time is limited since everyone speaks English speaking Irish has a limited value in real life unless you are a teacher or want to work in tg4

Minority languages are declining all over the world as English is the language of business and the web

Pretty much every country in South America or Africa.

The initial point was 'first', not official.

Not sure what difference you think that makes. The first language of a country is the official language. Same thing.

In brazil, the first language is Portuguese. It’s widely spoken. Absolute no idea how you think that’s the same situation as Ireland. It’s pretty much the opposite.

You seem to be one of the greatest advocates for the abolishment of the Irish language in this thread, as an Irish person I found this difficult to understand so I browsed through your post history on other threads, you were also very disappointed that our president didn't show up to the recent event and heavily criticised his actions. In the Irish road signs thread you pretty much continued the same tirade in this thread. The most telling post of yours was in the "Anti-British xenophobia" thread where you said that you don't understand the distrust and or dislike of the British as in your opinion "Irish and British people are much the same on the whole". Do you have a picture of the Queen over your mantel piece? I think you'd be a much happier person if you sold up and moved closer to Buckingham palace.

Neither of those are what first means in this context. Widely spoken has nothing to do with it. The question was, essentially, is there any other first language that is not widely spoken. How could 'first' possibly mean widely spoken in that context. Facepalm.

Nobody said anything about 'original' either. Do honest think the poster could think of any other place, other than england, that speak english for example.

As I said above 'first' language meant the first language of the state. The first language of Ireland is officially Irish. Claiming that's not the case is clueless stuff. There are many indigenous languages in Brazil, nonetheless today Portuguese is officially the state language (ie the first language) and it is also the widest spoken. The poster was looking for a country where the first state language is not spoken. This was not complicated.