Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/

Religion and Engaging with the Teacher

13468924

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,432 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    To be honest I'm more surprised when I hear of people under the age of 50 who attend mass on a regular basis. Most of my friends are in the 35-45 bracket and none of them go to mass. Some have kids and have had them baptised but that's about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,362 ✭✭✭MightyMunster


    In the 80&90s when I was in school we got sent to the school library for the 30mins before lunch every single day. There were around 6-9 of us and we were unsupervised. Don't think that would be allowed these days 😁

    In confirmation year we were just left in the classroom when they went off to the church.

    Some amount of time spent on religion though, don't think there's as much these days



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,178 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    It is extremely difficult for a teacher to both "ensure she doesn't pray or learn anything religious", and "ensure she isn't ostracised".

    You would letting your views on religion disrupt her school life, which appears to be the opposite of what an athiest would want.

    I would advise you simply allow your child to learn about the religious stories in school (it's mostly pretty general morality stuff and parables in SI, JI and 1st class) and invest the time in contextualising this information to the child when they are at home. Kids are smart.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,462 ✭✭✭Princess Calla


    That poster confirmed that their children were not baptised so I don't think that was a factor in their case.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,462 ✭✭✭Princess Calla


    I would be the same. Some would have been fairly vocal about being against the church/religion but yet they all had the big white church wedding, children baptised, communion and confirmation etc.

    So I do believe religion plays a bigger role in people's lives than they are willing to admit the alternative is they are not prepared to stand by their convictions. Only they themselves can answer that.

    Which is why I think religion will be part of the school curriculum especially in a religious ethos school.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 30,043 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    I admit that I more or less stopped reading after the first couple of pages as this is the exact same argument that has been played out in the Atheist and Agnostic forum for years. Just to be clear I am on the atheist side of the argument. My children went through religious education including all the trimmings because that is what my husband wanted and it wasn't an argument I particularly wanted to engage with, my atheism was only developing at that time. All my kids, now adults in their 30s to 50s completely fell away from the church in their teens and have no beliefs, hang-ups etc about it.

    What I would suggest is that the OP is using his child as a battering ram to change society. I believe this is unfair to the child. The OP chose to send the child onto the front line of the conflict, and is now being a General on a hill, well away from the battle.

    The whole business is far more complex than one child changing the system, work towards change, certainly. Don't use your child to do it singlehandedly though. The level of aggression being demonstrated by the OP is likely to do more damage to the child than some incidental fairy stories.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,432 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    No, I meant in general. A lot of parents baptised their children to get them into certain schools.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,462 ✭✭✭Princess Calla


    Yeah I get that. It will definitely be an interesting one to watch.

    Personally I can't see a massive change. If a couple married in a church it's pretty much a given that the children will receive sacrements....that's my experience/observation anyway.

    There's absolutely no "need" for a church wedding yet that's what the majority do. So religion is obviously somewhat important to them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,591 ✭✭✭Choochtown



    This is in the midlands 15-20 years ago. What I mean by raised eyebrows is that I was questioned about my non-attendance to mass on a couple of occasions in the local pub. (More in a puzzled fashion than an aggressive one)

    I'm well settled in the area now and I don't hide my lack of belief in a god.

    I was told recently by a neighbour that the general assumption in the area for years was that I was a protestant (I'm originally from the North) and my partner was catholic. 😄



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,551 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    Not really "eyebrows raised" then, I would say? More the general Irish nosiness!



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 783 ✭✭✭Morris Garren


    Something to bear in mind OP- over 20 years ago, a Supreme Court case determined that in matters concerning the seperation of Church and State, the ethos of a school (ie Catholic religious ethos in your situation) trumps any individual parental demands regarding the provision 'for' primary education. There may be other nuances and developments since, but my guess is that unless you are going to saddle up and ride to the Supreme Court, you are bound to at a minimum, 'respect' the ethos of the school to which you send your child. Your antagonistic, vitriolic and dismissive opinions on religion are indeed your own- but on the surface sound highly disrespectful to the ethos/work of said school.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,763 ✭✭✭Treppen


    In some schools you wouldn't dare mention being agnostic, atheist, other... well, not if you wanted an AP post anyway.

    Many schools the AP is tied to the ethos . Could you imagine... an atheist year-head in a Catholic school?


    Also most of the fee charging schools are intrinsically tied to the faith. You can be sure that ' them and us ' mentality continues on throughout networking life.


    Knights of Bertibanus anyone?



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,551 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    I’ve never seen religion tied to AP posts etc. but will accept that you have .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,763 ✭✭✭Treppen


    Standard question in interview, how would you promote the ethos.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭pooch90


    Athiest Deputy Principal here!



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    I find these discussions amusing. Most schools will do their best to accommodate non believers but they have a lot on their plate.

    What i find amusing is the threat these parents have with a bit of religion. If the parents don't have faith then i doubt the kid will be infected. Most religious beliefs are positive.

    Sure the church here did a lot of wrong but creating flaps in school or elsewhere won't change history.

    The secularists have won. Most secularists parents today didn't fight in the battle to separate church and state. But after the battle has been won they rush onto the field to stamp around. Like the guys who joined the IRA in the closing months of the war of independence. With the truce around the corner.


    Religion has had very positive influences on western society. Only a moron would say otherwise. Pretty much all western thought originates from Christianity. Tom Holland has a great book on this.

    Sure it went power mad in Ireland but a lot of states treated women and children badly

    Atheistic belief systems like communism murdered much more. Mao 70 million for instance



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 30,043 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    I must be a moron so.

    I'd like to respond to that post, but our starting places are so staggeringly far apart I would not know where to start. And I'm really a bit depressed by it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,763 ✭✭✭Treppen


    I find it even more fascinating that the Holland guy had time to write a book between shooting Spiderman and Avengers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    I think attendance at mass, varies enormously from one area to the next.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    On a side note. Last year was the first year registry weddings over took church weddings.

    I've also attended a few Humanist? funerals. So I think a huge shift in a short period of time.

    Religion and religious events are still very important to a huger number of people. So its not to negate that either. Even if its cultural and socially.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I'd be the same.

    However I'd also say I mostly don't know my friends and family habits religions or not. I'd consider it personal information unless it comes up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,432 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout



    Well me too, but when you are relatively close to family/friends and meeting up with them at weekends or know that they do certain activities on weekends then it's clear in a lot of cases that they don't attend mass.



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Its important you know your starting point. Read that book and then comment. Otherwise it's like denying your parents



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Don't get me wrong. The irish church in particular was off its head for the period 1922-2000.

    It showed no respect for separation of church and state but most Irish people supported them and voted for pro Church parties.

    The various scandals showed the institution mainly wanted to protect itself.

    But religious instruction today is harmless. Your kids will be growing up in a secular society. I can't think how that will harm them. RE

    But in terms of the development of Western society you just can't separate the church out. Its like denying your parents.

    I shall say no more



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 30,043 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Its true that you can't separate them out, but the question is the degree to which the influence was positive. That there was a huge influence is undeniable, your contention that it was an entirely positive influence is what is debateable.



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Sorry never meant to say entirely positive. It was never entirely positive.

    Particularly in Ireland but i think unfortunately the church and Irish nationalism got tied up together.

    I also think the famine put the fear of God in people. Took us about a 150 years to get over.

    Im going to read that Tom Holland book and see what he says.

    The church did a lot of good in terms of the structures of civil Western society. Setting it up etc Human rights

    In Ireland unfortunately as stated it got tied up with nationalism and got obcessssed with people's sex lives.

    It should have focused instead on economic reform.

    Im somewhat in agreement that if men could have got pregnant abortion would be a sacrament



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,763 ✭✭✭Treppen


    Waving crystals and prescribing rescue remedies in A&E is probably harmless too.

    ... But we don't do it, and we don't tell people to "go away and find another hospital" either... although "This is a Catholic country" did come up in a hospital in 2012.

    Said every year to parents in Irish schools and parents on here, but of course that's a totally different matter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 30,043 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Religion has had very positive influences on western society. Only a moron would say otherwise. Pretty much all western thought originates from Christianity. Tom Holland has a great book on this.

     Read that book and then comment. Otherwise it's like denying your parents

    Im going to read that Tom Holland book and see what he says.

    Three quotes from Bobtheman on this page.



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Im not sure what the point is by putting my quotes together? To show your technical brilliance?

    Parents should have more choice i agree but chronic underfunding of education is a more pressing issue.

    Gradually religion will be out of primary schools.

    Ethos at second level is not that much trouble.

    I think people getting upset about it are fighting a battle they already won. It just takes time to move on trustees etc. Ever wonder why the state loves trustees. Because it can pretend it doesn't really run schools

    As to the maternity hospital no woman will be denied treatment that is legal in the state. Mistakes were made in the past but i can't see that happening now.

    I love talking to heathens but i have enough now



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,763 ✭✭✭Treppen


    "As to maternity hospital no woman will be denied treatment that is legal in the state".


    If you agree with the above... Would you agree with the below:


    No child will be denied education based on Religion .


    I don't care what religion you are btw and I'm happy to talk to heathens, infidels or gentiles. But I presume you'd be happier if people posting on here showed their baptism certificate before you considered there point worthy.

    Religious tolerance indeed.



Advertisement