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The disruption of Food Agriculture .. unrecognizable by 2030

  • 22-09-2021 11:16pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,618 ✭✭✭


    Tony Seba has consistently predicted disruptive trends in energy and evs etc. In his latest presentation he predicts some interesting (and scary!) disruptions in food agriculture.

    Food starts 45:09 minutes in, though I recommend watching all of it.




«1

Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm all for people having choice, they may buy whatever fermented substance they wish to, personally I'll not be ingesting these franken-foods. The billionaire owned corporations aren't some altruistic save the planet, save the people mob. These are vehicles for the control of food and land grabs fueled by intellectual property and media hysteria.

    These products have been predicted to "arrived" many times already, and like this video above, just around the corner in X years time.

    https://twitter.com/fleroy1974/status/1440925749633077248?s=20



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 849 ✭✭✭Easten


    I think you are wrong.

    Just look at the milk section of any supermarket about 10% of the fridge space is now taken up with milk alternatives such as Soya or Oat milk. The real disruption of dairy is coming in the form of Precision fermented protein milk, it will basically wipe out the need for cows. Same for the beef Industry with synthetic or cultured meat.

    I'm just surprised as to how little is known about this here for a so called educated country.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Highly processed "food" as intellectual property controlled by billionaires, nah, no thanks. It's on the same level as patented seed, no right to fix your own machinery. A policy for drones, not people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,618 ✭✭✭celtic_oz


    Watch the video.. 30% of milk is ALREADY going into highly processed foods

    Such food manufacturers will use a substitute that is 5% of the cost of real milk quicker than you can say "Why did the price of milk just crater?"



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    These technologies are inevitable.

    The next 10 years will see big transformations in construction, office jobs, agri, travel, healthcare

    If ordinary people see the benefit then its going to be a great leveller, however it looks like it will be driven by profit and shareholders etc.

    The big losers here will be the developing world.

    2030 is a bit ambitious but it is coming.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I watched the part of the video outlined in the OP. I'm not arguing that there aren't already highly processed foods, but for example the impossible burger ingredients are listed on their site - I can't seem to link to it but it's a LONG list. That's turned a simple food into a highly processed intellectual property food.

    The argument is access, if you take milk, it's relatively simple if you are in a position to own a cow, goat, milk sheep or milk producing animal of your choice. Or if you have a farmer as a neighbour. It's an entirely different prospect if your "milk" comes from technology owned by an entity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,617 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Because there is a hyper processed alternative does not mean people will want it though.

    As pointed out already, what is happening is the food chain being corrupted not disrupted. Big business are manufacturing alternatives that they 100% control. Of course they want to see cows gone. With cows gone they 100% control tue food chain, control tue food and you control the people.

    I wouldn’t buy this product if it were half the price of milk.

    the interesting thing is if you talk to proper health professionals, state registered dieticians etc they will say to have your food in as raw a form as possible avoiding hyper processed foodstuffs wherever possible, yet a section of society, mostly vegans, have an absolute hard on to get society hooked on these hyper processed alternatives, but it’s their emotional weakness to farmed animals doing this rather than any scientific reasoning.


    as humans we should accept some environmental impact from our foods, and much less from frivolous air travel and space exploration, oddly we are moving the other way round.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,617 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    It’s interesting that the fda didn’t want to approve the fermented yeast sections of this burger because it was invented just for this and has never ever been consumed by humans before. There is no data on the long term effects it may have.

    after being refused a number of times extreme lobbying in the us got it passed. That’s not the sort of ingredient that I’d be trying in fairness, it’s considered “just about safe” for consumption



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 849 ✭✭✭Easten


    It'll certainly make Billionaires out of Investors, many of the companies involved are already major players in the food Industry. Apro milk is owned by French dairy Danone. Tyson foods in the US the world's second largest processor and marketer of chicken, beef, and pork are the biggest Investors in artificial meat production companies and have financed several pre-revenue startups in the area of artificial/synthetic Meats.

    Milk is now seen as the "low hanging fruit" as synthesizing cow's milk is a relatively simple process. There is now huge amounts of funding pouring into synthetic dairy startups. afaik the Cork-born startup Muufri is due to start selling this synthetic Milk now



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,260 ✭✭✭Grueller


    The one thing I don't understand is where the jobs will all come from with these changes? Are we facing universal basic income?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 249 ✭✭RaggyDays


    Probably at some stage. Isn't one of the Scandinavian countries looking at paying a basic living wage already.

    The big issue for farmers would be the collapse in land values and land use. These systems use raw materials such as Molasses, refined sugars and plant fibres to provide nutrients in the fermentation process, so if you cam grow Beat or Maize on your land you should have something to grow. After that idk what will become of the farms



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I have to say "And?"

    As a farmer I don't see these things as a threat to me at all, as products. The opposite in fact, I see them as an opportunity to offer the exact opposite to them.

    These franken-foods are using media hysteria regarding some perceived and some real management related issues in agriculture. But, agriculture is a broad church and there's not just one true way to get food produced.

    The danger, for the consumer, is the reduction or removal of your free choice as a consumer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,224 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    I wouldn't be a fan of cows milk but I tried oat milk in Balmoral and thought it nice. I also put it in coffee and it was good too. It tastes creamy ...if that's possible

    They had a jug of oat milk as an option at a coffee machine



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's good to have choice IMO. What I've been getting at is the pressure on ag isn't just coming from a consumer choice, it's also lobbying and legislation. Compete on a level pitch. We must retain our rights to grow our own food as we see fit, rather than be constrained to purchasing it from corporations.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This is it, previous technology advances saw employment opportunities but these advances will see less work and ubi

    Its not even that these fermented foods will disrupt agri it’s that they may offer even more targeted nutrition with minerals trace elements targeted to humans.

    The farm agencies like Teagasc and farm media like the ifj would have you believe it’s dairy or beef or nothing. Serious thought needs to go in to alternative farm enterprises to set up in the Irish climate.

    You see a lot of people going off grid doing their own thing growing there own food etc. Could be an alternative



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 849 ✭✭✭Easten


    Synthetic Milk that is indistinguishable from Cows Milk is a threat to a dairy farmer, saying you don't see it as a threat is just silly. Calling them Franken-foods is part of the battle that is commencing between the two at the moment. I can see it getting very nasty yet, the anti-dairy camp will have a field day on the poor farmer



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If I were in milk, which I'm not, yet, I wouldn't sell it as a commodity. Therefore, franken-foods aren't a threat to me. As I said, these things are an opportunity, much like reformed vegans. Agriculture, marketing, selling, are all different things which can be done many different ways.

    Call it indistinguishable if you like, synthetic anything is by definition nonnatural. There will always be a market for natural. In the version of the future being put forward in this thread I see natural as being premium, which is why I'm completely relaxed about a nonnatural product competitor.

    The concern I have is mostly based on the corporate wish to narrow consumer freedoms and potential safety re synthetic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,618 ✭✭✭celtic_oz


    What do the rest of the farmers do when "Milk 2.0" and "Steak 2.0" is one tenth the price and the market for REAL milk and steak is for the 0.5% who care ?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Ask them, if the world get's to that point. I'm responsible for my farm and my family. Just like the BS about having to feed the world, another thing farmers aren't responsible for. The consumer should make the choice based on clear facts, not hysteria.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,202 ✭✭✭emaherx


    Targeted nutrition sounds like marketing BS. What manufactured processed food is nutritionally better for you than pure unprocessed whole food ingredients? Whether you eat meat/dairy are vegetarian or vegan there is no manufactured food produced today anywhere that is better than eating a variety of natural and unprocessed foods.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭Morris Moss


    If these things come to market in the next few years they won't be cheaper than the real thing, as for the question of what farmers will do, not much would be my guess.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What about tomorrow though?

    It was 250 k a burger in 2013 now it’s 12 dollars.

    The push is on from climate activists etc.

    Milk you would think would be even easier to ferment with yeast.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 849 ✭✭✭Easten


    Might sound like marketing BS but it's real. DNA can now be chopped up and rearranged any way you like. They call it synthetic biology. Like everything there will be professionals doing it and complete chancers but one thing for sure is it's coming full steam ahead.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 849 ✭✭✭Easten


    Milk is way easier it seems, a 6 stage process in a lab which scales up pretty easily



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,764 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Did gozunda go back into the vegan forum?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,202 ✭✭✭emaherx


    Any actual products on the market which are better than nature? Still sounds like BS.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,755 ✭✭✭jaymla627



    What happens when these corporations have destroyed the opposition, (peasant farmers) and now have nearly full control of nations food supply, they will go the route of big pharma and look to maximise profits and even though it might only cost them 50 cent to make a impossible burger, they'll charge you a 100 euros, if you don't pay you can starve to death, thats how capitalism works isn't it......



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 849 ✭✭✭Easten


    What do you mean by better than Nature? I hope you are not Implying that modern agriculture is natural😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 849 ✭✭✭Easten




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,202 ✭✭✭emaherx


    Plenty of it is, like most things not all agriculture is equal but it suits some agendas to tar all farming with the one brush. I'd certainly take whole foods from modern agriculture over heavily processed rubbish disguised as food.

    Only 6 simple processes to make fake milk? It's only one to milk a cow, 2 by the time it's pasteurized.

    At least "oat milk" is just oats and water. If milking was baned tomorrow I'd have the oats and water over your lab milk.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 849 ✭✭✭Easten


    Ah steady on their now, no point on making it personal. It's just a discussion.

    I don't see any agendas that are being mentioned here. It's like it's been put out that these new food production systems are from the Vegan or anti-dairy movements. That simply is not the case, no doubt they will jump onboard but again, it is not what the disruption is about.

    To me it is innovation and I applaud them for making advancements like that. Yes there are a lot of unanswered questions, hence why it has been so slow up to now before adoption. The fda in the US are very cautious on this new technology. I assume the European and Irish versions will be also



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,755 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    Theirs some very good reasons why the fda won't sign of it on this crap, I think they have been persuaded to endorse it in the meantime since this study money talks and all that



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,202 ✭✭✭emaherx


    Which part was too personal for you?

    I thought I was having an on topic discussion. Looking back your posts have been some what more personal and anti farmer in a farming forum. To be fair most replies here have been fairly civil considering.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,202 ✭✭✭emaherx


    What about tomorrow though? When it becomes obvious that many of these alternatives are neither healthier nor more environmentally friendly than the conventionally farmed options. Cheaper will be their only hope.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    They will argue that fermented or cultured foods require 10 % the land mass of conventional farming and that it can eliminate transport etc.

    A lot of people are intolerant to dairy so that could be another angle.

    Food waste would be another one, a refined process might reduce it.

    That report is sensationalist in nature, wholesale deployment of that tech would have devastating consequences for developing world countries that have agri as their primary exports.

    If the goal is climate change risk reduction then the answer is reduce consumption and waste of food, travel, the natural world and resources



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  • Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭Biscuitus


    Lab grown meat and dairy if done right would be used to keep food prices low, the elite will still want their "real" foods so the market will always be there. It would cause massive unemployment across the world's farms but I'd bet its small compared to the enormous lay offs that computers will cause in 20-30 years. Every IT job is on countdown the same way machines put people out of jobs in industrial plants.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Sure they say 57 % of financial jobs etc gone in the next 10 years etc.

    Ireland would be screwed as most of the tax is coming from PAYE people in FDI companies and PAYE people working in SMEs providing services to FDI and FDI staff.

    At least on a farm we could grow food etc.

    The scariest thing is a privileged few getting access to this new transformative tech when it should be distributed equally



  • Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭Biscuitus



    Thats a crazy amount. What happens then? The amount of people I know who ended up behind a screen after doing a college course nothing to do with the job they ended up in because there were zero jobs in Ireland in that area. They are using farming as a scapegoat lately to blame for everything and dissuading young people from taking over family farms. In 10-15 years there could be massive unemployment in so many industries. Scary thought.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,617 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    That’s exactly where they are trying to bring the market.

    No need for messy farming, just produce everything in a vat in an industrial unit.

    have total control of the food chain, control the food control the people. Your analogy to the pharma industry in the US is spot on, people will be easily made slaves when there is no other form of food, the proof is already there. in the us if you can’t afford the hyper inflated medicine prices you just die.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,953 ✭✭✭farawaygrass


    There is a woman in a gym with a friend of mine. She was lost over 7 stone in last last couple of years through exercise but also now she makes all her food from raw ingredients and doesn’t use any processed foods, even like bought breads etc. It’s very time consuming but she put a lot of the weight loss down to that change.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,202 ✭✭✭emaherx


    Makes sense to me, fair play to her it's hard to cut out all highly processed foods, but a reduction would do us all no harm. I grow a lot of my own food and try to make most dinners from scratch with proper ingredients, which has greatly reduced my sodium and processed sugar intake.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,258 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    you could spend your nights listening to lads forecasting this that or the other doom on YouTube or podcasts. If they really knew what is going to happen they would go away and make a few bob out of it instead of telling the world.our policey remains unchanged,.make as much money as you can every year and worry about next year next year



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,617 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    It’s really hard when your busy. We cook from ingredients as much as possible, haven’t bought bread in years, it’s made here 3-4 times a week.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,202 ✭✭✭emaherx


    It is of course, and there's plenty more meals/snacks in the day here too where our diet is far from perfect, my point was as much as possible. But I certainly wouldn't like to see a world where the target is 100% highly processed manufactured foods. It won't help diets, the environment or starving nations but will probably be advertised as such.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 849 ✭✭✭Easten


    I have to disagree, these new food production methods have a vastly smaller ecological footprint, to say otherwise is just BS. There are several upsides to food production this way, number 1 would be the end of the destruction of eco-systems such as the Amazon rain forest to make way for agriculture, but also a chance to re-establish Natural Forests and ecosystems back into many parts of the western world.

    We are in the middle of a mass distinction of wild Animals. Modern Agriculture is Wildlife unfriendly, very mono-cultural and the number 1 green-house gas producing Industry. These are facts that cannot be disputed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭Morris Moss




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 849 ✭✭✭Easten


    The Energy sector covers/has areas in many many other sectors, not least Agriculture which uses huge amounts of Energy for transportation, heating, fertilizer production etc.

    Either way you'll get people to argue that the Earth is flat and carrots are Natural.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,202 ✭✭✭emaherx


    All while producing a perfectly healthy and varied diet? Or do we just live on lab produced milk. I think we are a long way from the fantasy you envision.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 849 ✭✭✭Easten




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The bigger question here is how farming can remain productive and help contribute to bio diversity

    The European Schemes didnt work, new ideas are needed.

    The monoculture set ups in agri dont work for bio diversity.

    There is a place for conventional farming but there is also a need to look in to these new technologies like cultured meat, fermented food and aquaponics etc.

    Ireland need to look at energy crops as well and producing gas from sewage and waste food etc.



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