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The disruption of Food Agriculture .. unrecognizable by 2030

  • 22-09-2021 11:16pm
    Registered Users Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭ celtic_oz

    Tony Seba has consistently predicted disruptive trends in energy and evs etc. In his latest presentation he predicts some interesting (and scary!) disruptions in food agriculture.

    Food starts 45:09 minutes in, though I recommend watching all of it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,211 ✭✭✭ herdquitter

    I'm all for people having choice, they may buy whatever fermented substance they wish to, personally I'll not be ingesting these franken-foods. The billionaire owned corporations aren't some altruistic save the planet, save the people mob. These are vehicles for the control of food and land grabs fueled by intellectual property and media hysteria.

    These products have been predicted to "arrived" many times already, and like this video above, just around the corner in X years time.

  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭ Easten

    I think you are wrong.

    Just look at the milk section of any supermarket about 10% of the fridge space is now taken up with milk alternatives such as Soya or Oat milk. The real disruption of dairy is coming in the form of Precision fermented protein milk, it will basically wipe out the need for cows. Same for the beef Industry with synthetic or cultured meat.

    I'm just surprised as to how little is known about this here for a so called educated country.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭ celtic_oz

    Watch the video.. 30% of milk is ALREADY going into highly processed foods

    Such food manufacturers will use a substitute that is 5% of the cost of real milk quicker than you can say "Why did the price of milk just crater?"

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,319 ✭✭✭ Barktastic

    These technologies are inevitable.

    The next 10 years will see big transformations in construction, office jobs, agri, travel, healthcare

    If ordinary people see the benefit then its going to be a great leveller, however it looks like it will be driven by profit and shareholders etc.

    The big losers here will be the developing world.

    2030 is a bit ambitious but it is coming.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,211 ✭✭✭ herdquitter

    I watched the part of the video outlined in the OP. I'm not arguing that there aren't already highly processed foods, but for example the impossible burger ingredients are listed on their site - I can't seem to link to it but it's a LONG list. That's turned a simple food into a highly processed intellectual property food.

    The argument is access, if you take milk, it's relatively simple if you are in a position to own a cow, goat, milk sheep or milk producing animal of your choice. Or if you have a farmer as a neighbour. It's an entirely different prospect if your "milk" comes from technology owned by an entity.

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,982 ✭✭✭✭ _Brian

    It’s interesting that the fda didn’t want to approve the fermented yeast sections of this burger because it was invented just for this and has never ever been consumed by humans before. There is no data on the long term effects it may have.

    after being refused a number of times extreme lobbying in the us got it passed. That’s not the sort of ingredient that I’d be trying in fairness, it’s considered “just about safe” for consumption

  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭ Easten

    It'll certainly make Billionaires out of Investors, many of the companies involved are already major players in the food Industry. Apro milk is owned by French dairy Danone. Tyson foods in the US the world's second largest processor and marketer of chicken, beef, and pork are the biggest Investors in artificial meat production companies and have financed several pre-revenue startups in the area of artificial/synthetic Meats.

    Milk is now seen as the "low hanging fruit" as synthesizing cow's milk is a relatively simple process. There is now huge amounts of funding pouring into synthetic dairy startups. afaik the Cork-born startup Muufri is due to start selling this synthetic Milk now

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,421 ✭✭✭ Grueller

    The one thing I don't understand is where the jobs will all come from with these changes? Are we facing universal basic income?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 248 ✭✭ RaggyDays

    Probably at some stage. Isn't one of the Scandinavian countries looking at paying a basic living wage already.

    The big issue for farmers would be the collapse in land values and land use. These systems use raw materials such as Molasses, refined sugars and plant fibres to provide nutrients in the fermentation process, so if you cam grow Beat or Maize on your land you should have something to grow. After that idk what will become of the farms

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,211 ✭✭✭ herdquitter

    I have to say "And?"

    As a farmer I don't see these things as a threat to me at all, as products. The opposite in fact, I see them as an opportunity to offer the exact opposite to them.

    These franken-foods are using media hysteria regarding some perceived and some real management related issues in agriculture. But, agriculture is a broad church and there's not just one true way to get food produced.

    The danger, for the consumer, is the reduction or removal of your free choice as a consumer.

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,199 ✭✭✭✭ wrangler

    I wouldn't be a fan of cows milk but I tried oat milk in Balmoral and thought it nice. I also put it in coffee and it was good too. It tastes creamy ...if that's possible

    They had a jug of oat milk as an option at a coffee machine

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,211 ✭✭✭ herdquitter

    It's good to have choice IMO. What I've been getting at is the pressure on ag isn't just coming from a consumer choice, it's also lobbying and legislation. Compete on a level pitch. We must retain our rights to grow our own food as we see fit, rather than be constrained to purchasing it from corporations.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,319 ✭✭✭ Barktastic

    This is it, previous technology advances saw employment opportunities but these advances will see less work and ubi

    Its not even that these fermented foods will disrupt agri it’s that they may offer even more targeted nutrition with minerals trace elements targeted to humans.

    The farm agencies like Teagasc and farm media like the ifj would have you believe it’s dairy or beef or nothing. Serious thought needs to go in to alternative farm enterprises to set up in the Irish climate.

    You see a lot of people going off grid doing their own thing growing there own food etc. Could be an alternative

  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭ Easten

    Synthetic Milk that is indistinguishable from Cows Milk is a threat to a dairy farmer, saying you don't see it as a threat is just silly. Calling them Franken-foods is part of the battle that is commencing between the two at the moment. I can see it getting very nasty yet, the anti-dairy camp will have a field day on the poor farmer

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,211 ✭✭✭ herdquitter

    If I were in milk, which I'm not, yet, I wouldn't sell it as a commodity. Therefore, franken-foods aren't a threat to me. As I said, these things are an opportunity, much like reformed vegans. Agriculture, marketing, selling, are all different things which can be done many different ways.

    Call it indistinguishable if you like, synthetic anything is by definition nonnatural. There will always be a market for natural. In the version of the future being put forward in this thread I see natural as being premium, which is why I'm completely relaxed about a nonnatural product competitor.

    The concern I have is mostly based on the corporate wish to narrow consumer freedoms and potential safety re synthetic.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭ celtic_oz

    What do the rest of the farmers do when "Milk 2.0" and "Steak 2.0" is one tenth the price and the market for REAL milk and steak is for the 0.5% who care ?

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,211 ✭✭✭ herdquitter

    Ask them, if the world get's to that point. I'm responsible for my farm and my family. Just like the BS about having to feed the world, another thing farmers aren't responsible for. The consumer should make the choice based on clear facts, not hysteria.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,195 ✭✭✭ emaherx

    Targeted nutrition sounds like marketing BS. What manufactured processed food is nutritionally better for you than pure unprocessed whole food ingredients? Whether you eat meat/dairy are vegetarian or vegan there is no manufactured food produced today anywhere that is better than eating a variety of natural and unprocessed foods.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 508 ✭✭✭ Morris Moss

    If these things come to market in the next few years they won't be cheaper than the real thing, as for the question of what farmers will do, not much would be my guess.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,319 ✭✭✭ Barktastic

    What about tomorrow though?

    It was 250 k a burger in 2013 now it’s 12 dollars.

    The push is on from climate activists etc.

    Milk you would think would be even easier to ferment with yeast.

  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭ Easten

    Might sound like marketing BS but it's real. DNA can now be chopped up and rearranged any way you like. They call it synthetic biology. Like everything there will be professionals doing it and complete chancers but one thing for sure is it's coming full steam ahead.

  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭ Easten

    Milk is way easier it seems, a 6 stage process in a lab which scales up pretty easily

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,709 ✭✭✭ Say my name

    Did gozunda go back into the vegan forum?

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,195 ✭✭✭ emaherx

    Any actual products on the market which are better than nature? Still sounds like BS.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,435 ✭✭✭ jaymla627

    What happens when these corporations have destroyed the opposition, (peasant farmers) and now have nearly full control of nations food supply, they will go the route of big pharma and look to maximise profits and even though it might only cost them 50 cent to make a impossible burger, they'll charge you a 100 euros, if you don't pay you can starve to death, thats how capitalism works isn't it......

  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭ Easten

    What do you mean by better than Nature? I hope you are not Implying that modern agriculture is natural😁

  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭ Easten

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,195 ✭✭✭ emaherx

    Plenty of it is, like most things not all agriculture is equal but it suits some agendas to tar all farming with the one brush. I'd certainly take whole foods from modern agriculture over heavily processed rubbish disguised as food.

    Only 6 simple processes to make fake milk? It's only one to milk a cow, 2 by the time it's pasteurized.

    At least "oat milk" is just oats and water. If milking was baned tomorrow I'd have the oats and water over your lab milk.