To answer OP question yes I would pay more, I would also happily pay for deer permit also
You are right there are a lot of people using TicTok these days.
Could I be so bold as to ask why? Genuine question.
Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"
The fact that the system takes in money is in no vl way connected to the fact that people operating it get paid.
The only cost is that of the Printers, and An Post.
Everyone else involved is being paid to be a Garda or Civil Service employee regardless of their role within the organisation.
I know of one person, a CO in the Civil Service who was deployed to a regional Garda headquarters and processed all the Restricted Licence applications for the district.
If they were not doing that particular job, they would be doing some other paperwork.
The exact destination of the bulk of the monies collected would make for an interesting FOI request.
Watching this post for some time now, my thoughts are:-
License Cost - Would I pay more?
Yes BUT only if the system works and meets the needs and demands of a modern day society, the Garda themselves have stated that the current system is antiquated and basically it sucks. The whole system needs a thorough overhaul.
Is it worth €80 for three years as it currently stands? – NO.
System Operating Costs
For the life of me I cannot understand why some people are including Garda Wages in the cost of operating the system. If you’re a butcher, baker, soldier or Garda you are in full time employment and paid for your services anyway, granted not paid enough in certain jobs. I served in uniform and overseas for 30+ years, one day you’re on duty, another day doing admin, another doing ceremonial, it’s still doing the job. All organisations large or small have a variety of personnel, some are on the front line (boots on the ground), others are employed in support doing admin, logistics, driving, etc, etc.
To include wages in the overall operating cost is ludicrous, and, if it is to be included, then that should be clearly stated in any report.
License Grant Time Frame
The current minimum three month grant time (rarely achieved) is way too long. It should take no more than four weeks, six at most to check documents, vet the applicant and issue a licence.
The Powers That Be - or shouldnt be
It’s no surprise to me that the system sucks and doesn’t work. Just look at our present government and previous governments back over the years. They never get things right, when they do have a good idea it’s never fully funded or implemented; promises are made but never fulfilled. Health is a serious issue for us all, yet some hospitals cannot access your records in another hospital, worse still, some departments within the same hospital cannot access your records, no cross platform.
Madness I say, madness you say, but end of day it’s because of no detailed logical plan, incompetent ministers, incompetent departments, incompetent managers, lack of resources (underfunding, lack of staff, lack of training, under paid staff, etc).
And worse of all, when government departments are found to be lacking or at fault, poof, like magic everyone involved dives for cover, no one is ever held responsible, no one carries the can and no effective action plans are put in place to solve the issues. The best we ever get is some minister or department head surrounded by the usual nodding donkeys in the background saying “we will learn from our mistakes”, “we will put things right”, yeah, we’ve all heard that one on more than one occasion.
The few times their backs were put to the wall, they always took the easy options, ban this, ban that, restrict this, and restrict that,…………………
God be with the good old days of the green paper license. Back then the Station Sergeant or a dedicated Sergeant within the station looked after the issuing of licenses. The sarge knew you and you knew him, all docs in order, walk in, have a chat (even had a cuppa of two occasions) and an hour later walked out with my license, everything done correctly and above board I might add. Alas, the good old days are gone.
That’s my rant for today, I feel better already, at least for a while anyway.
JP22 - For the life of me I cannot understand why some people are including Garda Wages in the cost of operating the system.
For my own part it was a hypothetical. IOW if you took their salary from the yearly revenue you'd still end up with a huge surplus. I know that is not how it works, and if all firearms, hence their license fees, were gone in the morning they'd still get paid. Not to mention all monies go straight to the exchequer and are divvied up among other departments, schemes, costs, and projects.
JP22 - That’s my rant for today, I feel better already, at least for a while anyway.
Well then at least something has come from this thread. 😎😁
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If you don't like how this Government or the last one operate, can you give us any inspired guess as to how the next one will handle firearms licensing?
No problem at all, but I will say from the offset this is based on the (flawed) opinion that money is ringfenced. A garda background check and a couple of referees are in my opinion not sufficient to weed out people who are not suitable for gun ownership. The licencing should include some form of competency check,firearms safety, random checks etc. If this happens and it costs me money I'm happy to pay it.
Regarding deer licencing, if it gets my licence out in time, without admin errors, and in the form of something more than a piece of paper thats detroyed on my first outing each year I'd fund that.
Currently people are getting paid to do their job, they are either incompetent or just do not care, which then leaves us with the poor service we are receiving for the money we already pay.
Now how in anyone's head does it make sense to pay these same people more money to suddenly do a better job, they are not overnight going to change their ways or practices, no they will will just gladly take the extra money and still provide the same mediocre service.
Now if some of the suggestions mentioned above were implemented, the service streamlined and made to perform in the manner it is already supposed to, then yes there would be a case for it. But as it stands to pay more money for the same is just throwing good money after bad.
In fairness to them and having been shaken up this year by Noonan and some funding as well as the mess in 2020. They have got their act together by 80% in upgrading the system to being online, now making it a 3-year license[finally]. So all they really need to do now is figure out how to do the returns online. A ziploc bag or a laminate machine, or a decent photo on your phone sorts out the other problem.😉
No problem at all, but I will say from the offset this is based on the (flawed) opinion that money is ringfenced. A garda background check and a couple of referees are in my opinion not sufficient to weed out people who are not suitable for gun ownership.e licencing should include some form of competency check,firearms safety, random checks etc. If this happens and it costs me money I'm happy to pay it.
WHY would you invite more restrictions on yourself and others for the FALSE premises that more restrictions make life safer? You cant regulate for crazy or bad, mad or sad or land inheritance/disputes if your concerns are on the three murder suicides in the last year? In that timeframe, more people have thrown themselves in the Shannon here in Limerick due to the stress of COVID and that gets ZERO mention in the Irish MSM. Mental checks...Push the decision if someone slips their dog onto the medical profession?You should see the reaction in the online forms of the UK docs when Privvie Patel suggested this post the Plymouth Incel shooting his fam and neighbours. Half said they won't sign off mental competency certs as they are unqualified to do and the other half because they don't like guns...M 'kay?
So let's go the Italian route get a state shrink to do it...Someone with an agenda as a civil servant...With no right of appeal or get a 2nd opinion...We won't have a license left within 12 months here under something like that. Random checks are there already under the firearms act,do we have enough Gardai to do this?
Ok lets go the German way on this. Post-Winniden school shooting...Privatise it,and let a private company send out,at 150 euros a throw that YOU as the gun owner must pay on the spot, designated personnel to randomly check up on whether gun owners are storing their firearms and ammo properly. That means letting any Joe or Jane Bloggs into your private house to inspect your gun safe and ammo locker,at possibly 5 AM.Or anytime you might be in residence. Even criminals in Germany don't have that sort of privacy invasion.
IOW be careful what you wish for ...
Do you own firearms?
Competency you refer to every new applicant has to prove same.
You give permission for Garda to contact you doctor/s on application form.
CPO/Garda can/do check house/security set up on new app and/or renewal.
So your asking for what's already there ........
You jest, I'm sure, at least I hope so.
The good Lord himself couldn't answer that one.
You can be assured of 3 things in this life...Death, taxes and more restrictive and stupid gun laws!🙄
I own a few yes. I provided doctors info on application form but the doctor was not called regarding application so the point is mute. Likewise safe was checked once about 3 years ago but it was on the wall a long time before that.
I refer to your original comment "The licencing should include some form of competency check,firearms safety, random checks etc. If this happens and it costs me money I'm happy to pay it." I pointed out that all this already exists. As you own firearms you know and have admitted this so what you're saying is we should pay more money for current setup? Madness........
I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make here. The OP asked would I pay more my reply was yes if it went to enhancing a shoddy current system. I'm not sure if you're trying to convince me to change my opinion or are just arguing my point.
My point is what you are looking for already exists. Why pay more for it? The extra cash will not make a difference to the service we get. Good cash after bad.
Yes it does exist, in your opinion. In my opinion it doesnt exist and in answer to the OP's question I'm would be prepared to pay for it. Would I pay more for no enhansement? Deffo no.
So what are you saying should happen that's not happening?