Does anyone give a toss about 9/11?

...😲

I don't give anywhere near as much of a toss as most Americans do, but that's to be expected. How often do we hear about the approx 228,000 people who died on December 26, 2004, after the massive earthquake near Indonesia and the Indian Ocean tsunami that followed? One was a a "natural disaster", while 9/11 was unnatural in its causes and effects.

"You can't tell yourself not to care. You can't tell yourself how to feel. That's how it is."

the world changed and never recovered, the greatest and most effective terror act ever.

the thread is bait, but its Gen X's JFK shooting. I remember my mum telling me when I was a kid where exactly she was when she heard the news. And I can remember exactly what I was doing when I heard about this first. It certainly had far reaching consequences, air travel hasnt been the same since.

yes, I give a toss because

It personally resonates with me because I knew the area well. (I moved back to Ireland in July 2001)

1. I drove directly past the pentagon twice a day for many years and knew many people who worked in it.

2. I regularly (multiple times per year) stayed in #3 world trade centre (Marriot hotel) 

More generally it was the catalyst for an obvious move "to the right" in terms of western politics. It was the legitimiser for significant erosions of personal freedoms, big brother levels of surveillance, privatisation of military interventions, racial profiling, targeting of Muslims as global bad guys, illegal invasions and wars. The US reaction instigated the death of many many 100,000s of thousands of innocents around the world. It proved the terrorism works, created 10's of 1000's of additional terrorists, created more extremism and polarisation, normalised torture and came full circle a few weeks ago with the capitulation in Afghanistan and ultimate victory of the Taliban. 

All of this has had profound impact on the world, and will continue to have greater impact.

This is why I give a toss. 

You're the chap who's always bigging up Putin aren't you?

I remember watching it on tv and the sheer dumbstruck horror as the second plane hit the twin towers and the enormity of what was happening started to unfold.

3000 in the grand scheme of things isn't huge. But "only" 2400 were killed at Pearl Harbour, many of them active servicemen and that thrust the US into WW2 which undoubtedly changed the course of history.

9/11 had a similar if smaller scale outcome. Swing to the right in politics, the even stronger emergence of fundamental Islam, a stronger Russia and destabilisation in eastern European politics.

Do I give a toss?

Well I care about the world I live in, so yeah.

That's because we don't do ding-dong of bells for people who have been killed, provided those people are in the wrong part of the world. Most of the time the deaths of countless numbers elsewhere in the world means little more than a 5 minute bit on the evening news, or a short article in the Foreign Affairs section. Now as unfair as we might find this, there is a compelling reason, which is that people tend to value the lives of people they know and are close to more than those that they don't or those who are far away. And don't imagine for a second this is something Americans reserve for foreigners - you've said it yourself 30,000 US veterans left to commit suicide over the past twenty years - that's four times the active service casualties and ten times the 9/11 casualties. I guess you're not alone in being turned off by the topic.

One thing I will note though, a quick crunch of your casualty numbers suggests 3 million Iraqis dying in the conflict over the past two decades, which is frankly insane and probably something in the region of ten times the actual number. And I will remind you, invariable, it is the opposition forces, not coalition or government ones, which cause the greatest casualties amongst the civilian population.

My basic point is that I expect the OP was making what I see as the hackneyed argument I frequently see amongst rather vocal anti-American persons. Specifically, their claim of caring and feeling so offended by the death toll arising from US actions around the world, when quite frankly such people are happy enough to see similar atrocities and keep their mouths shut. It's not so much that I disagree with many of the proposals these people raise - namely less US involvement around the world, reining in the 'Empire', being a lot slower to fund - it's just that so much of the ire I see poured out over these acts seems to begin and end with US involvement.

My go to would be a comparison with China - if one wants to make the case that the US should not be engaged in a Middle-Eastern conflict which is getting so many locals killed, then I think we could reasonably expect that the same people would be even more outraged when a country is in the process of ethnocide, confining a portion of its population to labour/concentration/re-education camps, and profiting in the process. But for some reason, I never see a fraction of that rage directed in such a manner. The only conclusion I can draw from this is people either don't believe in the ongoing atrocities in other regions, or their interest is not so much in opposing atrocities as it is opposing the US. I hope that clarifies things a little bit.

Yeah i did/do.As other people have said, seeing people jumping to cerltain deaths can have a effect on you.

Myself, I didn't see it as I was at (construction) work on 45th Street, then locked into the building listening to it on the radio. Having worked in them alot and having been on good terms with a few freight elevator employees etc , I could never get the reaction in Ireland which was , mostly as I could see, they (US) brought it on themselves.

The Irish girls I knew who worked in pubs down there were completely traumatised by hearing the sounds of bodies hitting the ground.

My only real memory of seeing 911 is looking down 6th Ave and seeing the throngs walking uptown and of cars/taxis who stopped to give lifts to us across the bridges etc.

I'm also , slightly, haunted the fact that had the lad running our 3 man job not missed the Monday I would have been there that day.

You, or any of us don’t have to watch anything. Nor are we having anything stuffed down our throats.

You’re manufacturing your own outrage.

Why?

I think it solidified in me the truth that there are people who literally hate the West, no matter what. That would of course include Ireland. So yeah, give many tosses.

On a much more trivial note, the look of Manhattans skyline isn't as wow since. The WTC was so unique, so simplistic, and weren't in reality just two large grey rectangles. Throughout the day they would take on a unique look, because they weren't' just solid concrete blocks, but had lots of glass, that would reflect light in different ways per time of day. So even the destruction of the buildings themselves is a regretful loss.