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What scares those who scream "conspiracy theorist"

13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,326 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    Agh I missed all this action in the conspiracy forum! (I wish I could monitor the conspiracy forum on a full time basis)

    Seems like there is an uprising afoot against the clear trolling that goes on here.

    I dream of a day that we can have civil, open-minded discussion about conspiracy theories, where the different facets are appropriately challenged and debated rather than the spamming, derailing, circle jerking (as another poster put it) by those that seem to have an awful lot of time on their hands.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Lol quite the fantasy you're harboring there.

    Unfortunately just because you don't like certain type of opinions and questions about your beliefs, it doesn't mean it's trolling.

    If you want "civil and open discussion" you should start with yourself. Particularly you shouldn't refuse to explain your own beliefs when asked.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,413 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    You are confusing making a nuisance of yourself and annoying people with scaring them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,326 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    I too would like to know where to provide such feedback outside of this forum seeing as a certain mod has brought their agenda in and mandated the trolling to death of the forum.

    Creepy that this is allowed happen to say the least.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan



    You mention the word dishonesty. Is it not dishonest to link people who are suspicious or skeptical of official narratives to those who are just plain weird?

    It's a poipular tactic to insult persons as Flat-Earthers, Tin-foil hat wearers, Believers in Lizard people, alien abductions and all manner of other smears simply if they express doubt about something in the natural world. You're not innocent of this slick trick yourself.

    The epithet "conspiracy theory" was coined by the CIA in the 1960's. It served to paint the little boy who said "The King is naked!" as insane. And it's served them pretty well.

    Aligning someone who doubts a narrative with a kook who thinks that COVID was delivered via 5G towers is a brilliant way to cover your tracks or at least to keep people from asking legitimate questions. And before anyone jumps down my throat about COVID, I have no opinion on the subject. I am not a virologist, doctor, nurse, medic, immunoligist or epidemioligist. So my profession would not qualify me to speak candidly or even with veracity about pandemics or any manner of biological maladies.

    And, again, before someone (and I won't say who) screeches in with the question/accusation "are you saying that COVID is a hoax and that it was man-made in a lab to cull the planet?" I would say..."please go away back to your crayons."

    The exact same way that you call anyone who criticises Israel's crimes an "anti-Semite" or anyone who questions torture at Guantanamo as a "terrorist sympathiser"

    This isn't dishonesty. There are those who don't believe what they are told. And the explanations, excuses and witholding of information only serves to fuel that suspicion. It seems only the stupid or the close-minded want to not step back and ask a question rather than dismiss it as the realm of a nutcase.

    I challenge the official narrative proponents and champions of the governmental/popular to tell when the truth is told and when it's a pack of lies.

    Ghaddafi's "viagra" story

    Jessica Lynch

    The Gulf of Tonkin

    Saddam's incubator babies

    Saddam's WMD's

    Assad gassing Syrians.

    Venezuelans eating flamingoes to stay alive.

    uyghurs in death camps in China https://www.qiaocollective.com/en/education/xinjiang

    Crimean Russians being forced to vote yes to an annexation against their collective will, with a gun in their mouths.


    And these are just modern day lies. The US nuked Japan in 1945. Not to bring the war to a speedy end and to save lives but to send a message to the world that they were willing to kill indiscriminately to get their way. Not a lot of people know this but nearly a 1000 US POW's were in a prison near Nagasaki. The Japanese had given the details. No mind. They were expendable and incinerated in the bombing.

    So America wants to protect lives and its own and bring wars to a quick end. They were given that chance time and again re: the whole Bin Laden / Taliban thing. "Supply proof that Bin Laden attacked your country and killed all those people and we will hand him over to stand trial". Except the offer was rebuffed.


    These are just the iceberg tip of lies that are told on a regular, maybe daily, basis by powerful governments. Why should anyone believe them? Why is it such a stretch of the imagination that innocent people would be sacrificed if it served their purpose?

    I have no doubt that the British Government would have a bullet shot into my face on the side of the road and then fabricate a story stating that I was either a terrorist OR that I was offed by the RA in a case of mistaken identity just to score propaganda points and label their adversary in this "heinous" killing. No doubt in my mind at all.

    And I certainly have no doubt that those sitting aound a mahogany table in DC or Langley or wherever wouldn't give a fcuk about my death or anyone else's if it could be used for political or financial or geopolitical purposes.

    Some people don't want to believe that. It makes them feel uncomfortable. They don;t like the thought of not being precious and protected. They like the thought of a foreign bogetman killing innocent people in order to get his way. The thought that their own "protectors" and the foreign bogeyman sing from the same hymn sheet is, mentally and psychologically, a bridge too far.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan



    You mention fear and those being afraid. Is/were Assange, or Snowden or Mandela or Ghandi or Stan Goff or Cyndi Sheehan or Martin Luther King or Rosa Parks or Daniel O'Connell or <insert name here>. afraid of the wolf?

    These people spoke truth to power. Something I doubt you would have the fortitude to do. Some of them lost their freedom. Some their dignity. Some their lives. None of these people were EVER scared. And if they were they hid it well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan



    What difference does it make if the innocent numbered in the 10's 100's or thousands.? Does a bodycount really need to be a factor?

    Iraq was attacked and destroyed by America and Britain. The estimates of civilian dead run close to 2 million. The Americans blithely say "we don't do body counts" .... that says it all.

    So "we don't count the amount of people we have killed but if someone comes up with a figure that we don't like then we are going to cry "BULLSHIT"'



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Again, this is a rambling rant full of the same mischaracterisations and misrepresentations you are accusing others of.

    For example, here you are labeling anyone who doesn't immediatly accept your conspiracy beliefs as "narrative proponents and champions of the governmental/popular".

    This is hypocritical.

    And no dude, ranting about obviously false conspiracy theories on a forum is not "speaking truth to power." Don't be silly.


    You guys keep whinging about being compared to other conspiracy theorists who believe different things from you because their prefered conspiracy theories are "invalid".

    For example, Markus thanked your post. He believes that the entire space program is fake.

    What do you think about this theory Alan? Do you think it's valid? Or do you think that it is in the same category as flat earth, lizard people and aliens?

    I think you will not actually express your opinion on this as you aren't actually all that interested in discussing conspiracies outside the ones you've already swallowed, and you don't want to give an honest response. It's not permitted for you guys to disagree with each other even when your theories are completely incompatible.

    It doesn't matter to you what's true. All that matters is that there's some secret knowledge you have and that the rest of us are too dumb and sheepish to get.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,644 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Do you have a link for the following please


    "nearly a 1000 US POW's were in a prison near Nagasaki. The Japanese had given the details. No mind. They were expendable and incinerated in the bombing."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    About 200 prisoners, mostly British and Dutch, were being held at the Fukuoka POW Camp No. 14 Branch just 1.7 kilometers from ground zero.

    195 POWs (152 Dutch, 24 Australian and 19 British) were imprisoned at the end of the war. 113 POWs died while imprisonment, 8 of whom were killed by Atomic Bomb.

    10 minutes on google does not supply any mention of 1000 US POWs dying in Nagasaki.

    The closest I can see is that 12 US POWs died in Hiroshima, which astute readers might find is a different city and a number much smaller than "nearly a thousand."

    I'm sure that we're about to hear how the US government is now covering up these 1000 murdered POWs and that all the evidence that Alan totally really had and was about to provide just mysteriously vanished.

    It can't possibly be that he was just wrong.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,118 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    So what was the reason for the WTC attack?

    We have reasons for the war in Iraq, based on false reports maybe, but there is a reason.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,829 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    The ironic thing about shatteralans untrue claim above, is that the japenese soldiers at the POW camps were ordered to kill all pows "to unburden themselves in order to focus on the fight". These executions were to begin on the 17th August.

    The bombs were dropped on the 6th and 9th.

    The bombs actually saved pow lives



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,118 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    You're going to have to talk us through in a bit more detail how the theories that you have equate with what Ghandi, Mandela, Rosa Parks etc did.

    Even if you think you are exposing some super secret information like Snowden or Assange you are so far 100% failing in that regard. They had evidence and documentation to back up their claims, you haven't provided anything whatsoever other than shouting "bad guys are coming for you" but with no explanation of who the bad guys are, what they intend to do or why.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,688 ✭✭✭storker




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,644 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Yeah thats why I asked for a link, any search I did said that it was 12 US servicemen died.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Watch now as the point is entirely avoided and ignored.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,189 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    "Anyone who disagrees with my views about space travel is a troll, this forum should cater to people like me"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,189 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    You aren't sceptical. You regularly claim that recorded events didn't happen because you "can't believe it", and conversely you'll parrot exaggerated or false stories without question because they fit into your world view



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,118 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    > The epithet "conspiracy theory" was coined by the CIA in the 1960's. It served to paint the little boy who said "The King is naked!" as insane. And it's served them pretty well.


    It won't surprise anyone to learn that the claim regarding the origins of the term "conspiracy theory" is itself a conspiracy theory.

    https://theconversation.com/theres-a-conspiracy-theory-that-the-cia-invented-the-term-conspiracy-theory-heres-why-132117



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,189 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Snowden said 9/11 wasn't an inside job.

    As for fear - conspiracy theorists and believers spread irrational fear all the time, it's what they do, go to any conspiracy forum. The dollar is always about to collapse, society is about to collapse, NWO/Jews/Communists/Fascists/Elites/etc are always just about to take over and start their reign of tyranny, yadda, yadda.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan



    I'm not rambling in the slightest. That is your opinion and your position on what I posted. Historically you have displayed that any post longer than a few sentences is a rant or a ramble. It's the first thing you do to attempt to discredit, besmirch or invalidate. Your next cheap and shabby trick was to see who thanked my post and then sneakily attempt to align MY beliefs and opinions with theirs.

    Nice try, PAL, but you're efforts are not only weak and underhanded, they are also childish.

    If a paedophile thanked one of my posts would you say that I am in line with their thinking? If I posted something about ...any topic....the weather, food, architecture, poetry, music and it was thanked by the Pope would you try to align me to religion, despite the fact that I am an atheist?

    Or is this just another "ramble"?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan



    Why are you lumping in skeptics with "conspiracy theorists"? It sounds like you are lumping in a black pickpocket with all negroes or a homeless woman with state-teat-sucking "junkies", or a guy with a scarf around his neck on Saturday outside Anfield with football hooligans.

    All you're doing is categorising. If someone brings up the fact that Hans Blix was run out of town [fact], that Rumsfeld lied, repeatedly about Iraqi WMD [fact], that Tony Blair told the world that we had 45 minutes before we were all incinerated by Iraqi drones [fact], that some bought and paid for twit witnessed soldiers throwing babies on the floor out of incubators even though she wasn't even in the country to witness the rubbish she described [fact]. These lies are all laid bare yet you seem to think that anyone who brings them and myriad other up is somehow worthy of the title "tinfoiler"

    Simple question for you. The farce staged Jessica Lynch "rescue" was completely denied by her. She ought to know. She was there. Apparently she "fired her gun taking out multiple "terrorists" until she ran out of ammo and succumbed to shock / unconsciouscness" She was being treated in a hospital but it was reported that she was kidnapped by bloodthirsty insurgents. There were even crappy stories on CNN about her being raped. And this moronic operation to "rescue" her from the clutches of the enemy was broadcast.

    What a load of bollocks. So it was all a lie.

    So tell me if you think that crap was real or a lie like so many others?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    A good book you should read, BTW is Ray MacGinnis's:


    And before any of you scoff and say "I'm not going to give a penny of my PUP to some grifter seeking to sell a book and make money", sure then I'll send you a second hand copy gratis. Read the book. It's pretty good. And if you are afraid that it will turn you into a tinfoiller/lizard/flat-earther, fear not. I've read the Bible and the Koran and Mein Kampf cover to cover. I'm still an atheist, a non-terrorist and a non-Nazi.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan



    Edward Snowden is an extremely intelligent man. He knows how these tricks work. He probably has as many doubts about the official 9/11 story as anyone else who has half a brain. His beef is with the NSA and how they tried to kill him in order to shut him up from leaking government malfeasance. If he was to come out and say 9/11 was an inside jobs and there are paedophile pizza businesses and the Earth is flat, etc. He'd never be listened to again. Abby MArtin backtracked on her 9/11 questions because she knew where it was going. She knew that a witch-hunt would ensue. Deep down I'm sure she has her doubts but to stick by them would slate her from all the other exposes she uncovers.

    And Snowden was a high school graduate in 2001. How would he have known whether it was an "inside job" or not? Was he part of the apparatus at the age of 19?

    You keep bringing up the point that there were so many people who had to keep this all a secret. People who were part of the mesh, yet you hang on a guy who was not part of that internal tapestry to make your point.

    A hundred or even several hundred witnesses who were there throw up a question and you dismiss it.

    A spook who wasn't there [even though I have infinite respect for the man's courage] says it wasn't nefarious and you hang on his testimony?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Yup. Pretty much another ramble.

    A pretty hypocritical one at that.

    I didn't align your beliefs with anyone's. I asked your opinion of their beliefs. I did this to highlight that for all your rambling about valid and invalid conspiracies the people thanking your posts and backing you up hold theories you would consider invalid.

    The issue is that you're not willing to state that though. You ignored the question because you don't want to give your honest opinion of Markus' theory. You don't want to do so because questioning other conspiracy theories is not permitted.

    If this isn't the case could you answer the question now?

    Is the theory that all space flight fake a valid conspiracy theory?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Also Alan before you dodge again any chance you'll be addressing your false claim that 1000 American POWs died in the Nagasaki bombing?

    We've shown that this claim is false.

    Do you have any evidence to support your claim?

    Or otherwise could you explain why you made a claim that was obviously false?

    Post edited by King Mob on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭85603


    So much yet so little.

    This is the primary reason that people tune out conspiracy theorists.

    Just an endless, vague, shifting, ramble.

    And instructions to read entire books for their pleasure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    And then "I don't have time to answer 3 questions!"



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,118 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    You provide a bunch of examples where people have conspired to do something bad, or lie to their population in some way. Yet these are all things that we know about, they were not kept secret, didn't take a massive amount of investigation to uncover the lies and there were minimal people involved in the telling of the lie.

    Yet you are subscribing to massive alleged lies that have remained unexposed for decades, no person involved has ever come forward to substantiate any of the claims, there is never any logical reason behind the claims or why whoever you are claiming to be lying would want or need to do the thing you are claiming, and the claims would generally involve hundreds if not thousands of people to be in on the secret.


    But still zero leaks, whilst the examples that you gave would have involved at most a handful of people, and they get leaked.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,189 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    I didn't lump sceptics in with conspiracy theorists. The rest of this is just another political rant.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,513 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    half the time I would be happy just to know what the claims actually are. some people are very shy about what they actually believe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Massive alleged lies that can be figured out by amateurs with no training in any relevant field and often with a shocking ignorance of basic things like science, history and math.

    And those amateurs expose this lie using information found solely on the internet with a minimum of research.

    And often these clues found by the amateurs are left by the conspirators for literally no reason.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,189 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    According to Snowden 9/11 wasn't an inside job. Note how when faced with that fact you resort to inventing rationalisations.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,741 ✭✭✭Dr. Bre


    In relation to shanksville- the live coverage that day shows smoke coming out of a big hole in the ground with people gathered around it. Yes you don’t see the plane but that doesn’t mean a plane didn’t exist.

    the people inspecting the crash site would have to be part of the conspiracy and if so why didn’t they throw pieces of plane around the site to make it look like a plane crashed!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,644 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    When you look at the pictures it's clear to see the plane hit the ground nose first, this would have caused it to disintegrate. But conspiracy theorists sidon like that explanation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,326 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    The new boards format has only served to exacerbate the trolling issue in the conspiracy forum. On the last site - 5 or 6 heavily paragraphed posts would be enough to move the thread to the next page, thus burying any conspiracy related post and reducing its chances of being seen by lurkers.

    Now that the thread pages are so long in the new site they have to up the collaborative effort and collectively increase the incessant spamming to ensure the posts are sufficiently buried.

    Really clever the tactics they use to render the forum unusable. The mystery to me is how they have the time/energy/motivation to do this.

    Post edited by Markus Antonius on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,189 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Yeah it hit soft ground at high speed, almost vertical. Ultimately around 95% of the plane was recovered. Conspiracy theorists found some photos of the site that didn't show much wreckage, so of course created a vapid narrative that "no plane wreckage was discovered"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,487 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Is this your new conspiracy?

    Do you realise they the old boards had an option to display more posts on each page. That’s why someone saying look at post X on page 40 meant little to others where post X would be on page 5.

    So anyway. Please continue to explain this conspiracy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Lol. Again, you dodge points and run away from things you can't deal with directly and honestly.

    And now you're continuing with these really odd rants about "tactics".


    So tell us, since you've obviously figured it out and you aren't interested in discussing conspiracy theories any more, why are we doing this? How are we coordinating these "tactics"?

    Or are you playing to pretend to satisfy the idea that you're a martyr and a rebel?

    Are you trying to hint that all the people who disagree you are actually part of a conspiracy to silence you because your theory that all space flight is faked is too close to the truth?


    Sorry man, but disagreeing with some one is not trolling. Asking questions is not trolling. Pointing out when you guys lie and get facts wrong is not trolling.

    It's what happens in adult conversations when people claim false things.


    If you want to discuss conspiracy theories where questioning them, there's plenty of forms out there that cater to conspiracy theorists who need to be coddled and protected from dangerous and upsetting questions ideas and facts.


    Also, what do you think of the fact that no other conspiracy theorists actually seem to want to talk to you or engage with your conspiracy theory? What do you think about the fact that they react so offended that we might be comparing their conspiracy theories to yours?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,118 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Wut?!?

    Boards is now in on the plot to keep the truth about the fake space programs a secret by increasing the number of posts that appear on each page?


    As for the forum being unusable, yoy seem to be coping pretty well with posting, bringing in new even crazier conspiracies, and continuing to ignore any questions that are asked of you whilst complaining about being asked questions. Other than that lack of answers or any evidence to support your claims, the forum seems to be functioning correctly as you are able to post and people get to see what you are posting and respond to it. That's basically what a forum is meant to do.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,009 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Always remember




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭85603


    lol. if they want to render the CT forum unusable couldn't they just ... delete it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,009 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Real world consequences.

    Basically one of Ben Gilroys supporters/anti vax/consiracy nutters was really sick in hospital with Covid, was taken out of hospital by some other nutters because the hospital "were trying to kill him", so had no oxygen, was really struggling at home with no oxygen so they re admitted him but he died.

    https://twitter.com/TMZ/status/1438674073127637001

    https://twitter.com/JoeCraig79/status/1439026286396067842



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,302 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    The guy behind that is a serious looper and a big supporter of a far right Italian group.

    Hopefully this kind of thing doesn't become commonplace here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,644 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Meanwhile in America


    "Just a day after testing positive for COVID-19, a Florida Republican official who battled against mask mandates, attacked the vaccine, and railed at CDC officials has died in Tampa.

    Gregg Prentice, who was 61, led the Hillsborough County Election Integrity Committee—and his sudden death has sent the local GOP scrambling as it no longer has access to essential campaign finance software without his help."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,688 ✭✭✭storker


    So he was the only one with the password. More evidence that anti-vaxxers aren't that bright...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,688 ✭✭✭storker


    Another attempt to change the charter is under way via the feedback forum.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,009 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Off the charts paranoia. Seek help, seriously.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,302 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Sadly it seems that man is very likely to pass away



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,413 ✭✭✭silliussoddius




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