Katherine Zappone Envoy Gig

MrMusician18 · 15-09-2021 10:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897182#Comment_117897182

Indeed, if these constituent voters have long memories, they are certainly not put off by what they remember. Laois-Offaly has consistently returned FF TD's even after the crash. Tipperary has Lowry as a poll topper, and Kerry returns the Healy Rae's. Voters in this country are both short termist and self serving and as much this scandal should have a lasting impact, from past experiences it won't.

Dempo1 · 15-09-2021 10:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897392#Comment_117897392

Me too, never dawned on.me 😏

archfi · 15-09-2021 10:32PM

I have to say i was enjoying RBB like a little grinning hobbit at his own desk in the background there :)

MrMusician18 · 15-09-2021 10:34PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897183#Comment_117897183

Independent that have ended up in the Dail didn't get elected on principles. They got elected on promises to deliver for their constituents.

Holding the balance of power makes it far more likely that they will deliver. This is Irish politics 101, I can't believe I'm explaining this.

McMurphy · 15-09-2021 10:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897394#Comment_117897394

Kerry and North Tipp are proof that the constituents have long memories. Just not for the reasons you think.

People don't forget "he fixed the road".

Dempo1 · 15-09-2021 10:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897394#Comment_117897394

We'll see, I'll just say my constituency ( I'm originally from Dublin incidentally) was one of the strongest FG strongholds in the country, only one left, 2 FF ( One very tight) 1 SF and one independent, originally got voted in as SF (Carole Nolan)

I absolutely agree with your point re very strong long serving independents, I just feel FFG are on very thin lines across the country generally.

Dempo1 · 15-09-2021 10:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897400#Comment_117897400

Me too, I know he's out there but I do enjoy him occasionally.

Allinall · 15-09-2021 10:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897416#Comment_117897416

An awful lot of naive and innocent posters in this thread.

Dempo1 · 15-09-2021 10:42PM

OK, that it for me, Great day all round , the result was predictable, the behaviour of some TD'S also.

Ironically an Historic day for SF ( Did I mention, now the largest party in the Dail) 😁

This is not over yet, I sense a few days of fun and games left it it.

Good night all

McMurphy · 15-09-2021 10:44PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897442#Comment_117897442

Indeed, including the famous one where a poster "didn't imagine Coveney conducted govt business on his phone"? That was an absolute cracker to be fair.....

Aged mighty well too.

Allinall · 15-09-2021 10:46PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897474#Comment_117897474

Kudos

dubdaymo · 15-09-2021 11:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896357#Comment_117896357

Before today's vote M. Martin warned FF TD's that if they voted against Coveney they'd be suspended.

So, if I was a FF TD that did not have confidence in Coveney, the Taoiseach of the country was warning me that I would be suspended unless I deliberately and knowingly lied in the Dáil.

Funny ol' business, politics.

awec · 15-09-2021 11:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897607#Comment_117897607

This is completely normal in party politics all over the world.

skimpydoo · 15-09-2021 11:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896533#Comment_117896533

Well, SF got exactly what they wanted. FF backing FG which won't go down well with the grass routes and some FF TD's who voted to back SF, but more importantly they are now the biggest party in the Dail.

awec · 15-09-2021 11:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897671#Comment_117897671

I think it's a bit of a stretch to suggest SF got what they wanted, unless you go along with the notion that this vote of no confidence was a political stunt all along and nothing to do with "seeking accountability".

I said it last week, it was a mistake for Mary-Lou to put a time limit on Martin sacking Coveney. It gave the government an easy way out when she backed herself into a corner of having to call this vote.

skimpydoo · 15-09-2021 11:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897686#Comment_117897686

FF will now never be the same again and SF know that.

awec · 15-09-2021 11:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897694#Comment_117897694

That has absolutely nothing to do with this vote. Winning a no confidence motion will not do FF any harm. The vote is of no consequence.

Letting the matter rumble on for another few weeks might have, but SF got ahead of themselves. How many no confidence motions is that now that the opposition have lost?

I suspect they saw the polling numbers and were drunk on opportunism. Either that, or delusion.

IMO, a mistake.

Senior · 16-09-2021 12:03AM

An awkward few days ahead for Simon Harris one would imagine.

skimpydoo · 16-09-2021 12:08AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897701#Comment_117897701

They did what the opposition is supposed to do which is hold the government to account. The government may have won the vote but they are wounded.

awec · 16-09-2021 12:11AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897723#Comment_117897723

They are not wounded by the vote. They were not held to accountability by this vote. This vote is of absolutely no consequence whatsoever in the end.

The only outcome of this vote is it brings an end to a matter that could have rumbled on for another few weeks. Martin should be sending Mary-Lou a thank you card in the post tomorrow.

skimpydoo · 16-09-2021 12:17AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897732#Comment_117897732

They are wounded, they have lost one of their TD's. If Zappone appears before any of the committees and contradicts what Coveney said more questions will be coming up. And don't forget Harris could be in some bother.

awec · 16-09-2021 12:21AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897738#Comment_117897738

Again, nothing to do with this vote.

Do you think the only way an opposition can hold a govt to account is to call a no confidence motion every time they do something questionable? That will not work. I suspect SF are starting to realise this.

Mary-Lou should have held her tongue, like Doherty did. Say nothing about dates, say nothing about timelines, continue to poke the beast and let the press have their fun.

awec · 16-09-2021 12:27AM

To put it another way, once Mary-Lou insisted that Coveney be sacked within a day it meant Coveney was going nowhere. For MM to sack a minister after that would make him look incredibly weak, particularly a minister of the standing of Coveney. For want of a better phrase, SF contributed to Coveney keeping his job here.

Now, whether or not you think this is a win for the opposition depends on whether you not you think this is all about genuine accountability and getting rid of questionable ministers, or you think it's about party politics and playing the game. I am not naive enough to think the former, so I suspect SF will be somewhat disappointed. They have landed a blow, but again have messed up an opportunity to land a knockout.

Which is absolutely not to say the government come out of this smelling of roses, far from it, but they live to fight another day due to what is, IMHO, a mistake by the opposition. SF won't be totally disappointed though, this entire episode has absolutely damaged government credibility so they will get gains from that.

dubdaymo · 16-09-2021 12:27AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897662#Comment_117897662

"Normal" doesn't make it right. The fact that people automatically accept without question that it's quite normal and OK to force people to lie in parliaments (as distinct from those who lie for other reasons) is just further proof of how corrupt politics can be.

Kermit.de.frog · 16-09-2021 12:29AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897046#Comment_117897046

So you are equating fraud with murder? Shinner goggles.

awec · 16-09-2021 12:30AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897754#Comment_117897754

I am not sure what you think the "lie" is here, the vote was whether or not you have confidence in Simon Coveney to act as minister for foreign affairs, not whether you think he told lies.

Anyway, do you know what a party whip is? All parties have one, even SF. The purpose is to ensure party TDs vote along party lines, irrespective of their personal views. They are, after all, elected on party and not personal policies.

dubdaymo · 16-09-2021 01:02AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897758#Comment_117897758

I am well aware of the Whip. I didn't come down in the last shower. I'm not discussing whether SF were right or wrong to propose the motion. I'm not even interested one way or the other. It has nothing to do with what Coveney did or didn't do.

The "lie" is that any FF TD who does NOT have confidence in him was forced under pain of suspension to vote against the SF motion i.e., they were forced to indicate that they did have confidence in Coveney when, truthfully, they didn't. That's a lie no matter how "normal" or "political" it is. If you can't accept that then this conversation is over.

RandomViewer · 16-09-2021 01:38AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117895742#Comment_117895742

Nothing grown up about what happened, cronyism and criminality won and the country is a worse place tonight because of it,

RandomViewer · 16-09-2021 01:39AM

Reshuffle when?

Suckit · 16-09-2021 01:41AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897753#Comment_117897753

SF definitely missed a trick, they would have been better served had they held out a little longer, especially not the return to the Dáil. Anyway, it also definitely had an effect. Could have done better, but it gained attention.

For MM to sack a minister after that would make him look incredibly weak

As opposed to how weak he looks now....? Not sure MM will be there when Leo is due to take over in December 2022. But then again, I don't believe Leo will be either. He's too prone to messing up, too interested in putting himself front and foremost. Even if he tries not to, he still will.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897754#Comment_117897754

FF called in the Secretary General for the Dept. of Taoiseach before the vote, and apparently had other questions for other people too. What was the point in that. MM had already publicly said they were backing Coveney. What was Martin Fraser going to say that would have made any difference.

Katherine Zappone Envoy Gig

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