Katherine Zappone Envoy Gig

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897723#Comment_117897723

They are not wounded by the vote. They were not held to accountability by this vote. This vote is of absolutely no consequence whatsoever in the end.

The only outcome of this vote is it brings an end to a matter that could have rumbled on for another few weeks. Martin should be sending Mary-Lou a thank you card in the post tomorrow.

skimpydoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897732#Comment_117897732

They are wounded, they have lost one of their TD's. If Zappone appears before any of the committees and contradicts what Coveney said more questions will be coming up. And don't forget Harris could be in some bother.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897738#Comment_117897738

Again, nothing to do with this vote.

Do you think the only way an opposition can hold a govt to account is to call a no confidence motion every time they do something questionable? That will not work. I suspect SF are starting to realise this.

Mary-Lou should have held her tongue, like Doherty did. Say nothing about dates, say nothing about timelines, continue to poke the beast and let the press have their fun.

awec

To put it another way, once Mary-Lou insisted that Coveney be sacked within a day it meant Coveney was going nowhere. For MM to sack a minister after that would make him look incredibly weak, particularly a minister of the standing of Coveney. For want of a better phrase, SF contributed to Coveney keeping his job here.

Now, whether or not you think this is a win for the opposition depends on whether you not you think this is all about genuine accountability and getting rid of questionable ministers, or you think it's about party politics and playing the game. I am not naive enough to think the former, so I suspect SF will be somewhat disappointed. They have landed a blow, but again have messed up an opportunity to land a knockout.

Which is absolutely not to say the government come out of this smelling of roses, far from it, but they live to fight another day due to what is, IMHO, a mistake by the opposition. SF won't be totally disappointed though, this entire episode has absolutely damaged government credibility so they will get gains from that.

dubdaymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897662#Comment_117897662

"Normal" doesn't make it right. The fact that people automatically accept without question that it's quite normal and OK to force people to lie in parliaments (as distinct from those who lie for other reasons) is just further proof of how corrupt politics can be.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897046#Comment_117897046

So you are equating fraud with murder? Shinner goggles.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897754#Comment_117897754

I am not sure what you think the "lie" is here, the vote was whether or not you have confidence in Simon Coveney to act as minister for foreign affairs, not whether you think he told lies.

Anyway, do you know what a party whip is? All parties have one, even SF. The purpose is to ensure party TDs vote along party lines, irrespective of their personal views. They are, after all, elected on party and not personal policies.

dubdaymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897758#Comment_117897758

I am well aware of the Whip. I didn't come down in the last shower. I'm not discussing whether SF were right or wrong to propose the motion. I'm not even interested one way or the other. It has nothing to do with what Coveney did or didn't do.

The "lie" is that any FF TD who does NOT have confidence in him was forced under pain of suspension to vote against the SF motion i.e., they were forced to indicate that they did have confidence in Coveney when, truthfully, they didn't. That's a lie no matter how "normal" or "political" it is. If you can't accept that then this conversation is over.

RandomViewer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117895742#Comment_117895742

Nothing grown up about what happened, cronyism and criminality won and the country is a worse place tonight because of it,

RandomViewer

Reshuffle when?

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897753#Comment_117897753

SF definitely missed a trick, they would have been better served had they held out a little longer, especially not the return to the Dáil. Anyway, it also definitely had an effect. Could have done better, but it gained attention.

For MM to sack a minister after that would make him look incredibly weak

As opposed to how weak he looks now....? Not sure MM will be there when Leo is due to take over in December 2022. But then again, I don't believe Leo will be either. He's too prone to messing up, too interested in putting himself front and foremost. Even if he tries not to, he still will.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897754#Comment_117897754

FF called in the Secretary General for the Dept. of Taoiseach before the vote, and apparently had other questions for other people too. What was the point in that. MM had already publicly said they were backing Coveney. What was Martin Fraser going to say that would have made any difference.

JP Liz V1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897278#Comment_117897278

Barry Cowan on The Tonight Show on VM1, same circles of shite from him, he went with his party majority for to keep the government etc., and be there for his constitutes

Peter Burke of FG a tool

JP Liz V1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897291#Comment_117897291

Independent TDs Peter Fitzpatrick, Michael Lowry, Noel Grealish, Denis Naughton, Danny Healy-Rae, Michael Healy-Rae, Richard O'Donoghue, Cathal Berry, Michael Fitzmaurice, Michael McNamara and Marian Harkin voted in support of Simon Coveney.

Sheep breeder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897827#Comment_117897827

To save their jobs and keep the gravy coming and not in support of Coveney.

McMurphy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897757#Comment_117897757

No. The crimes were never in comparison, just stated why neither party could sanction an EX councillor, it was a stupid question.

Dempo1

Morning,

I'm sensing the focus of attention moving swiftly towards Sneaky Simon Harris, a lot of talk and print coverage this morning about this little matter of cabinet leaks. The Junior minister who attempted to expose Harris has had his name hinted at this morning albeit it wouldn't take a PhD to work out who it was. There's a definite story to be explained here. Matt Carthy cleverly used Dail privilege, the Denial afterwards by a Harris spokesperson has no such privilege. I'm curious what prompted Harris"s "alledged" actions, has he a bone to pick with Zappone or indeed his Colleagues Coveney & Varadkar, a lot of focus on internal strife over at FF but I'm curious is there similar strife within FG. This aspect of this entire debacle "Alledged Harris leakage" is very strange & puzzling, the attempted sting afterwards just bizzare.

Lots of coverage this morning on this Nothing Burger and apparently Coveney heading up north today were I'm sure his and Leo's comments yesterday will not be universally welcomed, I suspect Michelle O Neill won't be particularly happy to see him and maybe quite happy to avail of social distancing rules (so much for Coveney's, Hillariously over hyped, Diplomatic skills at last nights utter farce.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897798#Comment_117897798

Evidently you did come down in the last shower as your acting like this is the first time anything like this has happened under the party whip system.

JRant

FF were the big losers in all this. MM somehow managed to turn what should have been a blow to FG into a debacle for his own party. That takes some doing and really shows how desperate he is to hold on to his role no matter what the damage to his party is. The long knives will be out for MM soon you'd have to imagine.

Dempo1

Colm Buffoon Brophy on morning Ireland spouting more Gik

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117898000#Comment_117898000

If Coveney had lost due to FF voting against him it would have brought down the Government and MM would never be Taoiseach again. Even voting against Coveney wouldmt have saved him in the inevitable leadership election that will come the second this Government is finished. The man is hanging on with his finger nails cus being Taoiseach is all he cares about.

Dempo1

Colm using the Scary word again explaining a TD'S right to use Dail privilege, disgraceful.

Dempo1

Colm now being grilled over the leak, suggesting "others" had access to the info, throwing civil servants under the bus perhaps 🤔🤔

Dempo1

Colm should be minister for Diarrhea, not Diaspora, he's just extraordinary and Not in a good way

Billgirlylegs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896060#Comment_117896060

The only reason???

Billgirlylegs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896286#Comment_117896286

Or is it to protect "his" seat. One thing about these dynasty politicians, they sure know how to hold seats. Even when their cumann or constituency want rid.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897701#Comment_117897701

It rumbled on for 50 days and has more ammunition to run some more.

Hypothetical I know but If TDs had a free vote (no risk of lost whip) or even a secret vote...I doubt Simon would have got 30 votes. FG forced FF and some greedy INDs to vote for cronyism, to condone cronyism and lobbying, to condone dishonestly in our Oireachtas. That is priceless. It cements the perception that FG and FF are the same.

Have you read the FG New Politics document from 2011?

Billgirlylegs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896555#Comment_117896555

😀😃 someone beat me to it to quote this. Second one, just for the record. you know how hard it is for some people not to delete text.

Nothing like this until 2025. Are bookies quoting on that?

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117898089#Comment_117898089

Have to agree completely, a free vote, I genuinely believe would have yielded a very different vote, Coveney would have survived but we'd have got a better sense of the real (not makey uppy) tensions between FF & FG.

skimpydoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897746#Comment_117897746

Harris has a lot do with the vote. If he had not leaked we would not have been where we were last night.

billyhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117898079#Comment_117898079

Of course. Everyone has their own agenda.