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Murder at the Cottage | Sky

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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,566 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Ian Bailey gets about alright, he's a stand out in the crowd kinda guy.

    How often would these people have seen Ian Bailey on Schull main street in the preceding year?

    Yet Marie Farrell had never set eyes on Bailey despite working on Schull main street?

    It's Schull main street not Grafton street, as evidenced by the amount of people who knew and recognised Bailey about town.

    Something doesn't add up, does it?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,339 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    We know that Ian Bailey has been out with Jules that night, and they made it home around midnight if not a bit later. I'd suggest Jules was driving, Ian had certainly more to drink that night. They went to bed, maybe around 1am, and according to what we've heard, Ian may have slept for 1 hour to later on go to the studio with the idea of working a bit. That would then have been 2am. If Ian decided to walk over to Sophie's house, it would have taken him around 1 hour to get there. Ian would have arrived at Sophie's house at around 3am at the earliest. It would then have taken him around another hour to make it to Kaelfadda bridge, if he was ever there, it would have been 4am and he would have returned to Jules at 5am at the earliest and done all this after a good night out in a pub with a good amount of booze.

    If Ian would have omitted the hike to Kaelfadda bridge, he would have been home at 4am at the earliest.



  • Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭sekiro


    Well, she had already said she saw someone at the bridge. This was the nature of her initial anonymous phonecall. It's only afterwards that here statements turned into it was actually IB that she saw. Her initial description didn't match. Then later on her descriptions did match.

    My personal feeling is that she had to stick with the story that she was in the car with someone and they saw a man at the bridge because if the driver of the car had decided one day to come forward and say "yes we were in the car but the individual we saw was definitely not Bailey" then the case against Bailey falls apart instantly and the Garda and Farrell are probably going to be in a bit of bother. So the driver's identity is conveniently protected. "No need to come forward and ruin your family with news of this affair, I'm talking to the Garda and they know who did it and they don't need a statement from you."

    Marie Farrell is absolutely fundamental to the case against Bailey. He was either at Kaelfadda Bridge or he wasn't. If not then he's no more of less of a suspect than anybody else. If she wasn't even down by the bridge at all but rather was all safely tucked up in bed then why wouldn't she just retract the whole thing when she says the police forced her to make statements? Why keep that part of the narrative going?

    Why did she even contact the Garda to begin with? Was she in contact with the mystery witness over the days, months and even years after the murder? Is there some truth to the idea that she is covering for someone but also not able to deal with the guilt of knowing that she did see some strange man out there that night.

    It's just really really strange that this lady willingly inserts herself into this case with those anonymous calls and then flip flops on so many different details except for the part where she was being driven around by someone and she absolutely cannot under any circumstances reveal the identity of that person. Did she even describe the car she was riding around in? Utterly bizarre.

    Reading the paragraph I just typed you really have to wonder how the hell she was not considered a suspect. Or at least suspected of being an accomplice. "I was just driving past the murder scene actually, well my friend was driving the car actually." OK, so we are going to need to question that friend. "Oh no, I can't tell you who it was, no way." OK, no problem, probably not THAT important anyway.

    This woman really got away with telling people she knows someone who was in the area in question on the evening in question at the time in question and was allowed to just never reveal the identity of that individual. You'd think even basic investigation would have been able to turn up a list of people MF is likely to be spending time with and in contact with. They didn't check her phone records? All this in the region where nobody has any secrets too. How convenient is that? The one secret that could potentially solve a horrendous murder is the the one that nobody has managed to figure out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 835 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    This is an interesting point and I have long thought that if the real story of Madam Farrell's activities that night ever emerges, then the entire picture may be altered.

    I have considered that it may be total bullshit - as in your theory, that she was at home in bed - but if that is the case then Chris must know. And if Chris was aware that she was merely attention seeking then he would have, at some early point, seen what the risks were and stopped her.

    So I lean towards the theory that she was in the area and did actually see someone. And that the initial calls were genuine efforts to help. And that she was with a gentleman friend, and that the Gardai used that as leverage.

    The most intriguing aspect of the Marie Farrell circus is : Why was it necessary to withhold this man's identity? What was so important that the Gardai didn't force it from her. Because, let's not kid ourselves, had they really wanted to, they could have and would have done so.



  • Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭Massive Berevement


    Thats the thing for me. It's the fact that the guards didn't go after the male passengers identity that makes me think it was their fabrication. Otherwise they would be all over it as it would have been a second witness testimony.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 835 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    Yes, so the question is, did they already know who the man was, or didn't they want to know?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Am I the only one who, if a post has MF or Marie Farrell mentioned in the first 2 lines, just scrolls on past?



  • Registered Users Posts: 310 ✭✭drumm23




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭Deeec


    I just find it hard to believe that MF was having an affair - I think this is very far fetched. She was a married mother of 5 and I dont think there is many man that would find her attractive. ( granted I am female and I cant account for what men find attractive!!! - so I may have this wrong). I think she was told to say this by the Gardai to give an explanation why she was out and about in the very early hours. They needed some excuse to explain why she was at Kilfeada Bridge.

    They never made much of an attempt to find this man. I know a guard is supposed to have investigated names for this man given by MF but came up with nothing. My guess is this was just said to make it look like they did try to find the man.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭Deeec


    The fact that Chris has stood by MF says alot I think - not many men would with their wifes supposed affair made so public. I suspect Chris had something to gain from this arrangement aswell and didnt realise MFs alleged sighting was of such significance. I think MF went along with it thinking it was just a little white lie - The gardai had convinced her that IB murdered Sophie so she assumed her sigthing was just supporting the other evidece. At some stage way down the line she realised that all the evidence the Gardai really had was her supposed sighting of IB - its then she realised she had created a huge problem for herself.

    I suspect the man and affair is just a cover story - there was no man.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 835 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    Yes, its wearying and unlikely to lead to anything new but, nonetheless, its a pivotal issue in the case. This man, if he exists, would have been able to corroborate or refute the Kilfeada bridge sighting.

    If he doesn't exist, the a different can of worms is exposed.

    what is most interesting is the question of why his identity wasn't pursued. Why was she allowed to withhold that information?

    The story of the deceased guy from Longford is clearly a convenient escape.



  • Registered Users Posts: 835 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    If you look at her in the latter years...yes. But when she was younger...around the time of these events, she wasn't bad looking. Nothing spectacular, but reasonably pretty.



  • Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭sekiro


    For sure you would think her husband wouldn't allow her to go through with all of this unless there was some kind of deal with the Gardai. Even then when she later on decides to retract her statements about Bailey, claiming that they all but forced her to point the finger at Bailey, she doesn't just retract the ENTIRE story.

    After all these years the husband didn't just come out and say "the whole thing was made up, she was never out and about on that evening"?

    It's just odd that she keeps that bit of the story once she has already turned against the Gardai. Funnily enough that was what ruined her credibility in Bailey's case against the Gardai, I think? Her refusal to name the mystery passenger destroyed the case. If she had even just said "I was out driving alone to clear my head" then there's no French case against Bailey and Bailey probably even manages to successfully sue the Gardai.



  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭DivilsAdvocate


    You're defending of Nick Foster depends upon a lot of what ifs and potential scenarios. What if Bailey had a different conversation with the cameraman. What if the cameraman wasn't truthful to Nick Foster. What if the camera was cut off before Ian said what Nick Foster said he did.

    When posters on here propose what ifs and potential scenarios about Ian Bailey being innocent, you refer to peoples statements and what is on record.

    Well what's on record here is Ian Bailey 100% not saying what Nick Foster claims he said. Not once does Bailey say "I did, I murdered Sophie".



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,339 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    There are also a couple of things we do know in favour of Ian Bailey: If he was the murderer he never killed again.

    Another thing we can also rule out is that it wasn't part of any kind of serial killing.

    Whoever wanted Sophie dead, wanted her dead for a reason.

    I also don't think the murder was part of an out of control kind of anger or the murder happened just by being hit like for example by accident in a heated argument.

    For all that there was far to little evidence and traces left at the scene. Most likely the murderer had time on his hands to clean up the site to a certain degree. He would have operated totally under the guise of darkness and Sophie also didn't scream, thus none of the neighbours were alerted. On the 23rd of December it might only be light at 9 am, or 9.30? or so? Not certain on that.

    Fingerprints were not traceable on that kind of brick and stone being used as a murder weapon and the murderer would have known that. Any amateur would most likely not have known that one and would have tried to dispose of that one, I'd say.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,337 ✭✭✭Wombatman


    Can somebody remind me again why IB couldn't have driven over to Sophie's that night?



  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭DivilsAdvocate


    Were her husbands charges before the murder? And if so do you know what he was charged with?

    I always assumed her husband was in trouble after she had came forward.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,339 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    He could have driven over, but he would have run the risk that:

    • the car was seen
    • the car was heard by neighbours
    • he has had a considerable amount to drink in the pub ( if it mattered to him, but it could have gotten him noticed as well)
    • he would have stained the seats / interior of the car with blood.
    • he would have run the risk of being stopped by police, drunk and lot's of blood on his hands and clothes, and would have had an awful lot of "explaining" to do.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,337 ✭✭✭Wombatman


    Sure he was probably only bringing the turkeys for a midnight joy ride.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Agree. Just to add to this that everyone around Schull seemed to know each other. Very odd that MF said she didnt know Bailey.

    One of Jules daughters even babysat for MF!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,339 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I would largely guess that Sophie was murdered some time after might night. Her bed was unmade, and possibly already slept in.

    She would only have opened up the door at this time of the night to somebody she knew.

    The house was empty and not lived in, for a large portion of the year. Whoever visited her that night knew she was there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭DivilsAdvocate


    I think Jules daughter babysitted for Marie Farrell after the murder, which makes it even more strange.

    I do agree though that its weird that Marie Farrell said she didn't know Bailey at the time. He had lived there for many years, he has a clearly distinguishable physical appearance regarding his height and the way he dressed. Also, if people from the area are to be believed, he was also quite loud and intrusive and often trying to read out his poetry in bars and public spaces etc.

    Could be possible that Marie Farrell was told to say she never knew of him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭DivilsAdvocate


    Slightly off topic but it was interesting that Baby Johns body was exhumed yesterday.

    People only have to look at that case in a neighbouring county to see the levels guards were willing to go to. Not to mention there were a few Kerrymen working in Bantry Station at the time of Sophie's murder.

    The Ian Bailey case is almost like childsplay when you look at what they tried to do to Joanne Hayes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 662 ✭✭✭mamboozle


    It might have made things much easier for the investigators had they been able to suggest he had, but it was ruled out possibly because Ginny Thomas arrived home about 2.30 am and would have noticed it missing. Neither she nor Jules heard a car being moved later, so I think Netflix went with the notion that he might have pushed it silently down the road before hopping in obviously aware he was going out for nefarious reasons



  • Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭sekiro


    He could have but the Gardai and French prosecution narrative was that he walked to the murder scene and was seen walking down by the bridge after the murder. Probably people who witnessed his level of drunkenness would have maybe testified that there's no way this dude could have drove a car around there in that state.

    So he could have definitely driven over there but this would ruin the prosecution narrative, I think. We just don't really know.



  • Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭sekiro


    I think the problem is that her first call was anonymous and didn't mention Bailey at all. Same for her 2nd and 3rd call too?

    So the narrative has to be that she didn't recognize Bailey well enough that she could have positively identified him right there in the first anonymous call but she was then able, after discussions with Gardai, to retrospectively identify him. Worth noting that her first "official" interview with the Gardai is maybe 4 or 5 weeks after the murder.

    If she knew him well enough the first "Fiona" call would have just been "I saw a man called Ian Bailey out by Kealfadda Bridge on the night of the murder." So the story has to be that she wouldn't know him right away by sight but would be able to remember that it was him with a bit of memory jogging at a future date. In the small community where everyone knows everyone else.

    The unfortunate thing for the Gardai is that her initial statements were basically describing a stranger in the area. This then had to be backtracked and adjusted until she was "sure" it was Bailey. Which she then went back on all those years later.

    The French seem to have just said "forget all that, we wont accept your first answer cos you didn't ID Bailey and we won't accept your final answer cos you say it wasn't Bailey but in that window where you did say it was Bailey THAT'S the truth we accept." I wonder how many poor folks are locked up in France for crimes they didn't commit?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5 prefab_stout


    Well considering he was able to get out of bed in the middle of the night to write an article, there's no reason to suggest he couldn't have driven over.

    The murderer may indeed have had a lot of alcohol on board. Memory may be quite hazy of events. They may even be able to convince themselves that it wasn't them. Just a thought.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Did MF ever lie in court or under oath? A charge of perjury might have made her rethink her story.



  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭DivilsAdvocate


    Are you really comparing typewriting whilst drunk to driving a car down pitch dark country roads in winter whilst drunk



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  • Registered Users Posts: 38 facebeard


    I think anything coming from Marie Farrell is probably best ignored. Jim Sheridan in his Documentary pointed out the road up that leads to Sophie's house after kealfadda bridge and Marie Farrell said she didn't know that and acted surprised when he mentioned that.



This discussion has been closed.
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