Murder at the Cottage | Sky

Jeff2

The Virgin Media interview is on again tonight at 11.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896810#Comment_117896810

It's local speculation. Unless a cover up is actually exposed, this is unlikely to be proven. It's quite possibly the connection, but I'm pretty sure he can't at this point prove it (and therefore tweeting it wasn't the best idea)

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896872#Comment_117896872

It has no relevance to him at all.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896671#Comment_117896671

The doc Martin theory is í believe based on the pathology report which I believe suggested it could have been, but also could have been from the block being dragged across her neck.

Not certain now, just heard that from a source.

MoonUnit75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896415#Comment_117896415

How would you explain IB agreeing the conversations took place? Richie and Rosie Shelley for example, Bailey said he was repeating what the Gardai had ‘brainwashed’ him with. The witnesses said he was crying, put his arms around Richie and was repeating ‘I did it, I did it, I did it’ when Richie asked him what he was talking about he said ‘I went too far’. They were in the process of leaving after becoming uncomfortable with Bailey going through all his press clippings and discussions the case.

Bailey later said he said ‘they are saying I did it, I did it’.

Neither of the two witnesses agreed that is what he said or meant.

Malachi Reed said he asked IB how things were going and he replied with words to the effect of ‘it was going fine until I went up there and bashed her head in with a rock’. Bailey said he said something like ‘things were going fine until they said I went up there with a rock and bashed her head in with a rock’.

Do you think the gardai somehow planned these conversations in advance? How does that work? The witness approached the gardai because they were concerned about what they had heard, the gardai did not approach them.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896896#Comment_117896896

No relevance? They were his legal right, as were all the French files.

DivilsAdvocate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896933#Comment_117896933

They're clearly much more likely to be poor attempts at humour than confessions. You're basically saying a man who is intelligent enough to get away with a horrific murder is actually stupid enough to confess to people not particularly close to him.

Ritchie and Rosie Shelley also went to the pub with him the next day and only left the house that night because they weren't happy with sleeping arrangements. Ritchie Shelley also didn't go to the police, they went to him.

MoonUnit75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896485#Comment_117896485

Another explanation is that she was terrified to be the witness who identified the person who seems to have crushed another woman’s head with a rock. It’s possible she made up the story about a man being in the car as an excuse to stay anonymous. Maybe she was having an affair but was on the way home from the man’s house on her own? She couldn’t really drag a man into it when he was probably at home snoring at the time.

flanna01

I'm sure anybody staring the rest of their lives in prison wood deem all aspects of the their respective case relevant.

jimwallace197

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896621#Comment_117896621

The Bantry Garda theory is as relevant and circumstantial as the Ian Bailey theory. The gards are already badly damaged by this case, can you imagine if one of their own had killed her & then some members covered up for him. It would be a scandal of the likes we havent seen before in this country. There's a lot at stake here especially if the perpetrator is a Gard.

Why is the Garda theory relevant, well, lets look at this

• Destroying of key pieces of evidence, including gate and bottle of wine amongst others.
• Blue fiesta known to be used by gards seen speeding away from the scene. This lead conveniently not followed up on
• Extreme tunnel vision on a fish out of water who was generally disliked in the community to paint him as the perpetrator
• Zero DNA evidence retrieved from a scene like this, one of the most violent in modern history, I mean come on
• Silence from the supposed chief witness in the case about who was in the car with her that night. Why not force her to reveal him unless he was a gard??
• Bribing, threatening, Co-oercing dodgy locals with criminal convictions into going ahead with false statements about this fish out of water.
• Refusal to move the body to the Cork general hospital, over ruling the state pathologists request which is an extremely unusual move
• An imprint of a boot on her face which is consistent with those worn by gards
• Their chief witness is now terrified of the gards themselves and says she was never terrified of Bailey, why would this be?
• Reports of a local gard who had a reputation for being a ladies man and having a thing for foreign women.
• Sophie leaving the house that night, why on earth would she do that willingly? Ask anyone and the only person they would leave the safety of their house at that time of night would be a gard.

The list goes on and on. Imo, alot more evidence points to a garda coverup involving one of their own than it ever did Bailey. And for anyone thinking this is unlikely, look at the numerous scandals they have been involved in over the years. The kerry babies scandal, implicating Maurice McCabe as a pedophile just because he was a whistleblower in the force, the resignation of the last two garda commissioners involving corruption, the penalty points scandal, the list goes on and on.

People need to open their eyes here especially with this case and not be listening to certain posters who have a clear agenda & are trying to obviously deflect away from the distinct possibility that one of their own is most likely involved.

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896870#Comment_117896870

What have you actually said though? These Chinese whispers have been doing the rounds for years. Gemma O Doherty wrote about it and now Bailey is running with it. From memory, and I stand corrected on this, Gemma had a witness who was overtaken by a blue Fiesta at 7-30 AM. It doesn`t fit with the probable time of the murder. Rigor Mortis was evident by 10-30 and given the overnight temperature, this would put the time of the murder well before 6-30. It would also be dark at 7-30 mid winter so I would seriously question how someone could identify a car colour accurately under lights. I actually had a Fiesta in the early 90`s and it was a weird blueish green colour. There was a lot of them around back then. Bailey drove a white one.

DivilsAdvocate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896888#Comment_117896888

It would be pretty logical if that was the connection, whether the guards were involved with the drug growing or dealing I don't know. But if rumours are to be believed this person had a past of trying it on with single women, maybe a case falls in his lap of a pretty french woman who needs liaising with.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896960#Comment_117896960

WTF wouldn't she just say that? Equally both personally incriminating but removes a reason for the Guards if doijng their jobs honestly and properly to speak to this other person.

So what other reason could there be for driving around at 3am on her own why, cos she's an astronomer?

"It's possible she made up" ... the whole thing.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117894997#Comment_117894997

For all that there was far to little evidence and traces left at the scene. Most likely the murderer had time on his hands to clean up the site to a certain degree. He would have operated totally under the guise of darkness

Good points. If he came prepared he could have had a torch

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896933#Comment_117896933

Persisting with nonsense. Even if some of this hearsay evidence were admissible in court do you believe that any judge would allow a jury to take it into account when deciding on a murder verdict? The Guards knew they could stick any old shite into their presentation to the DPP because they didn't expect it to fly. They were just going through the motions of catching the killer. While not catching the killer.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896977#Comment_117896977

It's quite possibly the connection, but there's no proof.

MoonUnit75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896955#Comment_117896955

There have been cases where a murderer has been so overcome with the burden and unrelenting thoughts of what they did that they blurt it out. There was a case a couple of years ago where a man was constantly texting his friend telling him he had to tell him something, the police put a tape recorder in the friend’s car and the man confessed to his friend that he killed a teenager and told him details of the murder.

The Shelley’s said he was crying and clearly upset, how can that also be a humorous or sarcastic remark? They said they left the house before the lift home even arrived because they were so disturbed by what had been said. The Shelley’s were in the same pub as Bailey the next day and Richie said he told Bailey he now believed he had killed Sophie, I haven’t seen any account that they had arranged to meet or went together?

Curious_Case

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896974#Comment_117896974

You've hit on my point about the 7.30am sighting -

Hours could have been spent, since her murder, either erasing evidence, setting the scene, or attempting to decide how to proceed.

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896965#Comment_117896965

Firstly I would question that the said detective was investigating a complaint made by Sophie. Just cos Bailey says it don`t make it so. Secondly, if a file on such a complaint existed, what relevance would it have had to the arrest?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897047#Comment_117897047

If Sophie had made a complaint to the Guards in relation to criminal activity it would be relevant as an alternative angle to who might have interacted with her and what other angles may have lead to her murder.

To suppose the only way Bailey might have come across this info is via Sophie and not disclosed data or other sources is blinkered tunnel vision.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896974#Comment_117896974

At 10.30am the first garda on the scene said the blood around her nose and ears was still wet. A Dr on the scene presumably did an examination of her body, but I'm not sure he mentioned rigor mortis??

She was left out for a further 24hrs till the pathologist came and did a post mortem, where time of death could not be determined.

The only reason the night time death theory has persisted is because the Gardaí have continually said it, however its not based on hard facts, because they don't exist.

There's a lot of weight to the early morning death theory, 6/7am

oceanman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896878#Comment_117896878

seeing it once was enough..

DivilsAdvocate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897014#Comment_117897014

It's more proof of a connection than Bailey has with Sophie haha.

Can it be proved he was driving a blue ford fiesta perhaps, or can any link between John O'Donnell and Marie Farrell be found.

MonkieSocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896898#Comment_117896898

It's from John Haribsons report;

THE STATE PATHOLOGIST'S report raises two mysteries: what caused "the curious situation that the drops of blood on the clothing were for the most part quite circular, a few with slight 'blobs' on the edges, as if they had fallen vertically on to the long johns rather than dribbled downwards from the deceased's head onto her legs"? The folded part of the cloth was not stained, creating "the impression that this blood therefore fell on these trousers while in that infolded state". Could the drops on the dead woman's pyjamas be the blood of her killer? Future DNA tests may tell. And what caused the "fine parallel abrasions" that Dr Harbison said resembled "the imprint of a 'Doc Marten' boot" on the dead woman's neck, face and right forearm? Did her killer stomp on her body?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897066#Comment_117897066

In rural Ireland, if you make that kind of complaint, the last thing you want is a garda car turning up. The unmarked detective cars are typically used, driven by plainclothes detectives.

Now my theory personally was she'd made this complaint previously and he was either going over under the guise of watching her house, helping etc, but did in fact want sex and was rejected.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897088#Comment_117897088

Yes, that's not the full report but I believe he stated its a possibility but it wasn't certain.

Darc19

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896872#Comment_117896872

Nope, that only comes when charges are brought.

And DPP directed (quite correctly) that no charges were warranted

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897080#Comment_117897080

Yes he did according to the locals I talk to about it

DivilsAdvocate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117897016#Comment_117897016

Yes and they were so frightened and shocked they decided not to tell John Shelley who picked them up.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896972#Comment_117896972

Given the amount Ian Bailey had drunken that night, I'd say between him and the Gard, the Gard would have been the more agile one to commit the murder and leave the murder scene quickly enough. Bailey would have in the state he was in, have stumbled home, he wouldn't even have had a few scratches from brambles or briars but also a strained or broken ankle even. I don't think anybody said that Bailey walked with al limp later on over Christmas.

And if it was police corruption, it would certainly point into something very big to cover up, big enough to commit murder. A drug ring and Sophie having gotten wind of something going on in this area could easily have been the motive for that.

The Gard would also have been careful not to use his police car, but his private vehicle. On the road, anybody would easier have remembered a police car than a blue Fiesta. If he would have come late at night he could easily have argued to Sophie that he was at the end of this shift and actually stopping at hers on the way home or something. The Gard would also have known that fingerprints could not be left on that particular brick or that rock. Bailey would probably not have known that, he didn't have the experience, or I would think so.