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Too many people would have to keep it a secret...

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,040 ✭✭✭✭ Hello 2D Person Below


    Translation:

    "I can't dispute what he says without looking silly".



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,040 ✭✭✭✭ Hello 2D Person Below


    You're pretending that the Gulf of Tonkin was an irrelevance that didn't lead to the death of 58,000 Americans.

    The CIA nor the US government deny it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,041 ✭✭✭✭ King Mob


    No man that's not how language works.

    You made a false claim. Withdraw it.

    You were asked questions and you said you would answer them. Answer them.


    But you won't because you, like trumpets and conspiracytheorists, are just dishonest.


    Go back and fix those things and then I'll engage how ever you'd like.

    Or perhaps you could actually make a valid point rather than just arguing for the sake of it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,041 ✭✭✭✭ King Mob


    That's the thing. How many conspiracies have been exposed by armchair detectives using clues from the internet?

    Of all the real conspiracies we know about all of them have been exposed either by internal leaks, governments releasing information or by journalists in the mainstream media. (Or combinations of those.)


    Not once has there been an example of a conspiracy theory that started on the internet as what people would call a conspiracy theory, made specific claims so it was clearly not just random guessing and then shown to be true.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 23,116 Mod ✭✭✭✭ robinph


    Hang on, a moment ago you said it was to do with stopping the spread of communism. Now you have reverted to the reason for the Vietnam war was to kill thousands of US citizens.


    What was the reason for the US government wanting to kill those young men?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,655 ✭✭✭✭ Dohnjoe


    I never wrote that nor insinuated it. I am well aware of the USS Maddox incident, Tonkin incident.

    I am addressing your bad logic where you are trying to claim that the US would have no problem murdering thousands of it's own citizens in an inside job because they've gone to war before.

    Did the US secretly kill thousands of Americans to start the Vietnam war?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,789 ✭✭✭ fvp4


    Yeh conspiracies do happen. The reason the US went go war in Vietnam was primarily anti communism and the reason for the war in Iraq was neo conservativism.

    why concentrate on American fatalities anyway?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,966 ✭✭✭ storker


    @CQD "Look..It's a question of cognitive bias really..Some people really don't want to have their worldview questioned.."

    He said, with no sense of irony...



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,966 ✭✭✭ storker


    Maybe they could. Where is your proof that they did?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,655 ✭✭✭✭ Dohnjoe



    There have been quite a few false flags throughout history, are there any whereby a democratically elected government has directly and covertly killed thousands of their own civilians to trigger a war?

    Off the top of my head I'm not aware of any, and certainly not in the last few decades



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 23,116 Mod ✭✭✭✭ robinph


    I guess you could make the case that soldiers being put in front of firing squads during the first world war because they wouldn't go over the top and get killed that way would be close to meeting the criteria of a state just killing their citizens just because they could, but even then you have them thinking that by having the threat of firing squad they were doing it in order to keep the rest of the soldiers in line and following orders. Take you chances against the enemy and you might make it out alive, but you won't against a firing squad.


    There is probably some really odd and gruesome example of ancient civilisation killing citizens for a laugh, gladiators for instance, but that is still no closer to showing any reason for why the US would want to have killed off thousands of civilians in a fake terrorist attack.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 23,116 Mod ✭✭✭✭ robinph


    Assuming it wasn't the BBC doing the demolition we have at least 10 people in on the conspiracy so far. I'd assume that there would be a few people above the demolition guys and the BBC journalist who came up with the idea and it wasn't something they thought of themselves.


    Did the demolition guys contact the journalists directly themselves or are there a few other intermediaries? If it was just the BBC who knew about it then why them, but if other news organisations were in on it too then how come none of those journalists have leaked details? Where did the demolition team source all the equipment from, those quantities should have shown up as an odd order somewhere? Wonder if their families noticed that their demolition expert partners were missing for several days and looking a bit stressed in the lead up to 9/11 and why they said nothing either?



    It's equally hilarious and scary that people believe this stuff. :D



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,041 ✭✭✭✭ King Mob


    I'm also not sure why they needed to bring the BBC in at all.

    Why have them announce it early in a way that exposes the conspiracy?

    It can't be that the just fucked up and made a mistake. Because it being impossible for them to make a mistake is the entire basis of that claim.

    So it has to have been done on purpose.


    I once saw a conspiracy theorist claim that it was done to "prepare" people so they would accept that the building came down.

    That piece of nonsense was the closest we ever got to an answer. Most conspiracy theorists just plug their ears and ignore. I suspect that's the tactic CQD is going to choose.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 23,116 Mod ✭✭✭✭ robinph


    > I once saw a conspiracy theorist claim that it was done to "prepare" people so they would accept that the building came down.

    Because of course having seen two 100 story sky scrapers collapse on live TV earlier in the day wouldn't have prepared us for a 40 story one falling across the road a bit later on. :)



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 41,210 Mod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder


    it'd be gas if the conspiracy theory that the CIA/us authorities were behind 9/11 was actually started by the CIA. keep em guessing...



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,243 ✭✭✭ CQD


    We'll put the BBC reporting it before it happened down to a tear in the time/space continuum so lads..

    Did you ever think it would get to the stage where you were supporting Nazis?..



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 23,116 Mod ✭✭✭✭ robinph


    Which would be a conspiracy I could understand, it would have a purpose at least of distracting/ identifying the gullible.

    Would seem a bit counterproductive to encourage them and get them to search out each other and then amplify the crazy amongst themselves, but as warring nations will often deploy fake propaganda against each other it would at least make sense to a certain level.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,041 ✭✭✭✭ King Mob


    A good chunk of the "evidence" for the conspiracy theories comes from official sources.

    Like the BBC on purpose announcing the collapse early. Or from alledged contradictions in reports. Or "confessions" from folks like Silverstien.

    It would be very easy for the CIA to plant this evidence and let conspiracy theorists lap it up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,655 ✭✭✭✭ Dohnjoe


    Conspiracy theorists use this to try and claim that the more ridiculous theories (hologram planes, energy weapons) are planted to make them look silly. They'll also denigrate e.g. flat-earthers as crazy idiots, but play the victim card if anyone dares level the same comment at them. They are a confused bunch alright.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,374 ✭✭✭✭ Timberrrrrrrr


    Nope, not even could, it takes months to prep a building for demolition.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,041 ✭✭✭✭ King Mob


    Say what you will about the energy weapon theory, but at least is more coherent and self consistant than anything any conspiracy theorist here has been able to come up with.

    Certainly far far more plausible than the idea that 3 people demolished WTC7 over a weekend.


    And again, a secret space laser program would require much less people involved than many of the conspiracies that have been vaguely hand waved at here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,374 ✭✭✭✭ Timberrrrrrrr


    And let us never forget "The magic mirror" theory 🤣



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,040 ✭✭✭✭ Hello 2D Person Below


    Every United States post WW2 endeavour was a crime against humanity.

    The war in Iraq (which the US is still involved in) is testament to that.

    Question for you, was the war in Iraq justified?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,966 ✭✭✭ storker


    I find it particularly hilarious that this super secret conspiracy decided it was necessary to slip advance details of the schedule to... a news outlet.

    There's also the question of why bother. Were they afraid that the news organisations, watching the events unfold, and each others' coverage of them, might somehow have missed one of New York's tallest buildings collapsing into rubble?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 23,116 Mod ✭✭✭✭ robinph


    What has that got to do with your claim that the US government kills their citizens for fun?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,966 ✭✭✭ storker


    No need when it can be adequately explained by confusion in real-time reporting of a fast-changing event.



  • Registered Users Posts: 753 ✭✭✭ generic_throwaway


    So you think that the whole thing is a vast conspiracy is more plausible than there being confusion during a live broadcast during one of the most dramatic and confusing news days in history?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 23,116 Mod ✭✭✭✭ robinph


    That is significantly more likely than the other theories being thrown around. At least we have documented videos of such things happening from that space travel show Star Trek.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,040 ✭✭✭✭ Hello 2D Person Below


    Answer the question.

    I admire you because Mob King dodges my questions.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 753 ✭✭✭ generic_throwaway


    Not sure what any of this political stuff has to do with vast conspiracies. Everybody knows that the US, China, Russia, UK etc. etc. are acting largely from self-interest.



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