Shop refusing alcohol sales to under 21's

06-09-2021 9:40am

@GM228 Good point. Actually, it does explain the difference in treatment of alcohol-free products that @Del2005 queried. The sale of them is covered under the acts you mention, so there's no distinction separating them from regular-strength products. However, the regulations around the need for alcohol products to be in a separate area was introduced in the Public Health (Alcohol) Act 2018, and it explicitly defines alcohol products as having the same meaning as in the Finance Act 2003

Del2005 · 06-09-2021 9:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117852333#Comment_117852333

So all the shops are breaking the law by having the zero alcohol products outside the segregated area. How come none have been prosecuted or at least told that they aren't complying with the law?

06-09-2021 10:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117852396#Comment_117852396

No, I'm saying the opposite. Sale of alcohol-free products to minors is illegal because it's covered under the Intoxicating Liquor and Licensing Acts, which don't have a distinction for alcohol-free products.

The legislation saying alcohol products must be segregated is the Public Health (Alcohol) Act 2018, and it does have the distinction, so alcohol-free products don't need to be segregated

GM228 · 06-09-2021 3:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117852333#Comment_117852333

Correct, they don't need to be segregated, but are still subject to the same restrictions on sale.

Jeremy Sproket · 06-09-2021 6:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117854087#Comment_117854087

You couldn't make it up.

As I said, the "off-licences" where I'm from might have more draconian rules and opening hours, but it's logically consistent.

N/A beers/wines and even low alcohol beers <3.5% can be sold day or night in Sweden.

What about these so called non-alcoholic "gins", these are essentially just flavoured water and are therefore NOT covered by the intoxicating liquor act, I wonder would these be subjected to age verification in the same shop?

L1011 · 06-09-2021 7:02pm

I'm aware of a retailer who almost certainly don't have an off-licence selling "0%" (>0.5%) products, and only those types of products, in a "zero zone". There is no licence on the most recent register, but I am very well aware that this is not particularly accurate. Is this legit if they are considered to be alcoholic products?

That said, they also don't have planning permission for that unit and are challenging that in the courts.

GM228 · 06-09-2021 9:08pm

@Jeremy Sproket wrote:

What about these so called non-alcoholic "gins", these are essentially just flavoured water and are therefore NOT covered by the intoxicating liquor act, I wonder would these be subjected to age verification in the same shop?

It depends on it they really are non alcoholic (0% ABV) or actually very low alcoholic, it will also depend on if they are distilled or macerated, and of course if they are produced under licence, so if the gin is an intoxicating liquor as defined by the Licensing Act 1872 then they are subject to the rules.

@L1011 wrote:

I'm aware of a retailer who almost certainly don't have an off-licence selling "0%" (>0.5%) products, and only those types of products, in a "zero zone". There is no licence on the most recent register, but I am very well aware that this is not particularly accurate. Is this legit if they are considered to be alcoholic products?

Again, like above if the so called non-alcoholic drink is indeed an intoxicating liquor as defined by the Licensing Act 1872 (which pretty much all non-alcoholic drinks are) then they are subject to the rules requiring a licence.

ohnonotgmail · 07-09-2021 9:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117855109#Comment_117855109

many of the "non-alcoholic" gins are distilled and do contain a very small percentage of alcohol. This one for instance says it is non alcoholic and alcohol free and "without the alcohol". you have go a long way down the page to find this "It does contain a trace of alcohol, 0.5% ABV which is used to intensify the flavour." Alcohol free is marketing hype.

https://www.silktreebotanics.com/

munsterman2008 · 22-09-2021 11:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117815500#Comment_117815500

Great response :D

Jeremy Sproket · 22-09-2021 7:21pm

I saw in a shop I was in before that knives were not to be sold to under 18's.

From what I can see, this is NOT covered by the act mentioned above. What if a 16 year old was doing a course in cooking or was doing an apprenticeship as a chef?

Peregrinus · 23-09-2021 2:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925578#Comment_117925578

The shop can lawfully adopt a policy of not selling knives to under-18s. The catering student's options are (a) get an adult - like his Mum - to buy the knife on his behalf or (b) go to another shop.

Jeremy Sproket · 06-10-2021 10:02pm

Is there any evidence that the prohibition on off sales before 10:30 and after 22:00 has any effecting on curbing alcohol consumption?

If pubs can apply for an early licence then why can't shops and off-licences?

I was in a certain shop this morning and the time never dawned on me, I am an early riser and get up early. Today is my day off (I have been put on a shift pattern recently). No nights, just rotating days. Ie, every second weekend. 2 on 3 off 3on two off or something like that.

I was picking up ingredients to make beer batter and homemade tar tar sauce. I make it with N/A beer because my dad and boyfriend are teetotalers. The "zero zone" is outside the alcohol section so it never occurred to me what time it was or that I was overstepping any thresholds to get the "forbidden fruit". I wasn't trying to be confrontational or anything. When I reached the till the girl at it tilted her head and said "really??". You know you can't buy alcohol at this time ... she then started berating me for "forcing my way through the locked gate" .. I didn't but whatever. It just never occurred to me since it was outside the fence and I never really noted the time.

The whole experience made me realise how silly it all is ... what difference does it make when I (or even an alcoholic) purchases the beer? Never mind NA beer.

breezy1985 · 06-10-2021 10:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117813088#Comment_117813088

Practically every pub in Limerick that isn't a student bar has a 21 or 23 policy

Shop refusing alcohol sales to under 21's

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