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Any other women here vote NO for the 8th?

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,648 ✭✭✭✭ JupiterKid


    This is the exact sort of so-called debate where views are so deeply entrenched that these threads end up going round in circles, tit-for-tat arguments between posters and a lot of preaching, grandstanding and moralising with a thick dollop of patronising and condescending posts.

    Anyway, the vote was has and the Irish electorate spoke loud and clear on the matter. Now we have moved on.


    Dame Helen Mirren put it so aptly...




  • Registered Users Posts: 10,046 ✭✭✭✭ the dunne


    I respect your honesty and am disturbed by your opinion. Are you a parent?

    Also I'd be interested as to when you think the father of a child should have any rights?

    Do you think he should be liable for financial support if a woman decides to have a child he would not want to have?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,307 ✭✭✭ Jequ0n


    Growing up I used to think that the Swiss had an amazing deal with all of their referendums, like being able to influence politics etc. As I got older I realised what an absolute mess this causes, and how much it complicates everything.

    There are things the general population should never be able to decide on, simply because most people lack the ability to see matters objectively.

    Same with this **** referendum, where common sense was lost as emotions cooked over left right and centre.

    Great fun to watch people lose their carefully constructed outward image of a caring and compassionate person, while selfishly trying to control the lives of others.

    All in the glorious name of morality. Humanity at its finest.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,128 ✭✭✭✭ One eyed Jack



    I don’t recall at any point claiming I questioned whether I was or wasn’t part of Irish society, so your question is moot. I at least am capable of acknowledging that I don’t have a choice in the matter - I am part of Irish society, whether I like it or no, though I don’t expect my answer will in any way influence your opinion as to whether or not abortion is an issue which affects everyone in any given society, which is why it’s strictly regulated and it’s simply untrue to claim that a woman’s medical decisions, in this case in relation to abortion, only affect her.

    You’re free to continue to wish that were the case, but when you choose to express such an opinion on a public forum, you’re giving other people the opportunity to correct your misinformation. They may choose to do so in a far less polite fashion than I have done, or they may choose to believe you have the capacity for rational thought and reason when presented with evidence that your claim is false. I’m beginning to think the former may have been a wiser course of action at this point.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭ uptherebels


    You claimed a woman having an abortion effects everyone in society. Yet refuse to say how it effects you.......🙄 So either it doesn't effect you because you aren't part of society or it doesn't actually effect you.

    That doctors and medical procedures are regulated isn't evidence of a woman's abortion effecting everyone in society it's just a random straw you are clutching at.

    But hey keep waffling instead of backing up your nonsense

    Misinformation? I don't think you understand what that means. But that isn't surprising.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,128 ✭✭✭✭ One eyed Jack



    Ahh, I think I see what’s happened - you simply misread my post and you’re attempting to attribute something to me which I neither said, nor indicated, nor could it reasonably be deduced from what I did say, which was this -

    While the equivalence with masturbation is beyond stupid I grant you, for many reasons, it’s simply not the case either that a woman’s medical choices (if you want to put her decisions relating to a termination of the pregnancy in those terms) affect only her. Abortion is an issue which undoubtedly affects everyone in society, regardless of their sex or gender, regardless of their age and indeed regardless of whether they are or have yet to be born.


    Two different points, the first one refers to your claim that a woman’s medical decisions only affect her. The second one refers to abortion as an issue which affects everyone in society, which is why it’s strictly regulated and it’s these regulations will affect the decisions anyone makes in relation to abortion. It’s why for example most GPs in Ireland are unwilling to provide abortion services, because they’re unwilling to be responsible should any unforeseen circumstances arise for one thing which could adversely affect them.

    It’s just untrue to suggest that a woman’s medical decisions only affect her, which is the only point of yours I had any interest in correcting, and I provided evidence to support my argument, whereas you have provided nothing more than what appears to be an opinion based entirely upon your own wishful thinking.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭ nudain


    That is literally the plot for my unpublished screenplay, "Honey, I Aborted the Kids."

    But, yeah, the anti-abortion crowd are great craic.

    "Won't somebody please think of the aborted children?"

    "Ok, I've had the child I didn't really want. What now?"

    "You can f*ck off now, we're not interested anymore."



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,701 ✭✭✭✭ bnt


    I think it's hilarious that some people think "pro-choice" means "pro abortion". I don't think I've ever heard of anyone being genuinely in favour of abortion, not even people who work in abortion clinics and perform them. If you have to make the choice, you've already screwed up, but at least you have that choice, which can go either way.

    Parvi enim sunt foris arma, nisi est consilium domi.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,122 ✭✭✭ mojesius


    Absolutely not. The vote was not about legalising late-term abortions though so I'm not sure why you're raising that question.

    Edit for clarity: I don't think it should be legal for unrestricted abortions at 30 weeks but where there is FFAs or the mother's life is at risk, it's unfortunately sometimes necessary.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,128 ✭✭✭✭ One eyed Jack



    Ohh I don’t know that that’s quite true either tbh. In reality it’s sometimes the case that they take what could only be regarded as a rather unhealthy degree of interest in how other people raise their own children. Quite often it’s the opposite, and proves rather difficult for people to tell other people who want to participate in telling others how to raise their own children, to fcuk off 😂

    But most of the time, most people regardless of their opinions on abortion, restrict themselves to providing education and that sort of thing to society for the benefit of people who support their particular ideology, which is kinda handy if you have children, and not so handy if you’ve had an abortion, because it’s then you’ll find out who really wants to support you, and who doesn’t, as opposed to just using your circumstances to promote their own ideas in society.

    I’d struggle to tell Greta Thunberg to fcuk off for example, but if some people had their way she would have been unlikely to have ever been born in the first place. It’s one of those curious paradoxes 😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,863 ✭✭✭ pgj2015


    They could always give the child up for adoption if they felt they couldn't look after it themselves.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,863 ✭✭✭ pgj2015


    You sound like great craic yourself.


    sorry for caring about an unborn innocent fetus.

    Anyway the referendum didn't go the way I wanted but I can sleep easily knowing I did my best and voted no, the yes voters can live with the way they voted.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,863 ✭✭✭ pgj2015


    I know a young couple who have a child who is around 1 or 2. the woman got pregnant quickly after the first and they got an abortion. reason, it was too early to have another one after the first. so the first kid gets to grow up and experience this great life and all that comes with it. The second one who got aborted was just unlucky he was conceived so soon after the first child. I think that is really sad, just think about it, there was nothing wrong with the second one, just bad timing. That is a tragedy and don't tell me it isn't.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭ nudain


    Yeah, you probably misread my post or something. It's satire.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭ nudain


    And they clearly decided they weren't in a position to take care of two children. To me, that's not a tragedy. But, yeah, agree to disagree.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭ Markus Antonius


    Woman chooses to have abortion -> My body my choice! Right to Choose! Bodily Autonomy for Women! Keep your Rosaries off my Ovaries!


    Man chooses not to get vaccinated -> Antivaxer! Alt-Right Pig! Conspiracy theorist! Science Denier! Racist!


    😐️



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,863 ✭✭✭ pgj2015


    I hope that couple don't live to regret it. I know someone who had an abortion when she was younger, pressure from her parents. she ended up a heroin addict and she told me it was the abortion that drove her to the drugs.


    The aborted fetus of the couple could have gone on to have a great life, if that isn't a tragedy, what is? sorry you don't get to be born because you were conceived at a bad time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,068 ✭✭✭ DubInMeath


    A good few people who are anti vax, regardless of gender, tend to prove that they are one or all of those terms in your second paragraph by exactly what they post online, including being as thick as pig sh1t.

    Post edited by DubInMeath on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    People are critical of those who don't get vaccinated, whether male or female, because it's potentially harmful for those who can't get vaccinations or who are immuno-compromised though.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Because they believe it isn't just their body.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭ Markus Antonius


    People are critical of those who get abortions because it is harmful to the fetus.

    I feel like we've made progress today.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,958 ✭✭✭ piplip87


    I voted yes for two reasons.

    1) It's none of my business if a woman wants to abort a pregnancy.

    2) There's thousands of kids in this country born to people who can't look after themselves, nevermind a kid. I hate to say it but they would have been better off aborted.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭ Markus Antonius


    I'm sure the nuns of Tuam had the same ideology



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,805 ✭✭✭ fvp4


    Have pro abortion groups or feminists in general come out in favour of bodily autonomy?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,805 ✭✭✭ fvp4


    There are plenty of reason to support early term abortion. It’s just a cluster of cells for instance. However bodily choice would also apply to late term abortions, where there’s clearly another viable human in there.



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