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Any other women here vote NO for the 8th?

Jeremy Sproket

I'm a 28 year old girl, half Swedish, half Irish. I grew up in (very progressive LOL) Sweden until I was about 18 and moved here about 10 years ago.

I voted no to the 8th specifically because I knew where it would lead. Unconditional and limitless abortions and essentially being used as a contraceptive.

It should strictly be limited (in my opinion) to rape, FFA, ectopic pregnancies etc.

Am I alone?

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Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117814411#Comment_117814411

I believe you shouldn't be allowed to masturbate or have an abortion on a flight. Both are perfectly acceptable practices though.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117814082#Comment_117814082

I expect you living in the past so the real world not what you about, saying some is a dope just because you are living in the past tells me what you about...

[Deleted User]

Dear lord people, why are you wasting what is probably going to be one of the last really nice Saturday afternoons we're going to get before the kids are all back to school, we're back to workplaces and Autumn/Winter arrives along with dark evenings and **** weather (and possibly covid surges?)

Get outside and enjoy the day instead of wasting your time rehashing old arguments that were decided 3 years ago.

Who cares if someone else thinks "my body, my choice" is disgusting or "abortion is murder"? Let them off. They are powerless and have no say in what any woman decides to do, anymore.

I'm off out to treat myself to a big bag of hot salty chips from Macaris, and then I'm going to sit on a park bench and eat them slowly.

Enjoy your afternoons. :)

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117814801#Comment_117814801

No, and you know it doesnt.

this is not an argument

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117814422#Comment_117814422

Absolutely. Her choice. Trust women. Oh, and this has all been decided as Loueze has pointed out.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117815094#Comment_117815094

So why not the day, week or even month after birth, then?

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117813967#Comment_117813967

My point is entirely being missed I do think abortion should be rare but I would never use that as an argument for abortion because it's a way of not owning the decision to support abortion rights or its a way of putting their support at arm's length from themselves. I voted yes for two reasons (1) the woman would only go to the UK to have an abortion anyway so it was hypocritical (2) I have no right to tell anyone what to do with their bodies. I did not get into any of the how many angels are dancing on the head of a pin-type argument on abortion rights.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117815420#Comment_117815420

They are why would you think they are not? nobody is forced to have a vaccine in Ireland.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117815441#Comment_117815441

https://www.iccl.ie/iccl-monitoring-rights-during-the-pandemic/

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117814258#Comment_117814258

Do you campaign for every thing you believe in?

I am not someone who would ever go to a protest. Life is too short. The wrong decision was made in relation to abortion, not much I can do about it, unless there is ever another referendum on the matter in the future.

It baffles me though how people can think they are good decent people but will abort a fetus because they don't feel like having the child.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117815420#Comment_117815420

Not getting the vaccination is potentially harmful to others I suppose.

But I see your wider point about the hypocrisy of people who take absolutist positions (whatever place they occupy on the political spectrum).

uptherebels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117815480#Comment_117815480

What other things would be as important and protecting a helpless little foetus to you?

As opposed to having a child there are unable to support and raise properly. Yes I can see how you are baffled🙄

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117815094#Comment_117815094

Late termination outside of medical emergency is barbaric. And of course it isn't just her body.

uptherebels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117815539#Comment_117815539

You might want to compare like with like.

Someone not having a vaccine effects other people. If the disease was non communicable then you might have a point.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117814525#Comment_117814525

While the equivalence with masturbation is beyond stupid I grant you, for many reasons, it’s simply not the case either that a woman’s medical choices (if you want to put her decisions relating to a termination of the pregnancy in those terms) affect only her. Abortion is an issue which undoubtedly affects everyone in society, regardless of their sex or gender, regardless of their age and indeed regardless of whether they are or have yet to be born.

The reason abortion is so heavily regulated in any case is because there needs to be oversight and accountability of those people who are providing abortion services for one thing, that’s one of the reasons why regardless of the existence of the 8th amendment or no, regardless of whether the unborn has an equal right to life as that of the pregnant woman or not, medical professionals are reluctant in many cases to be responsible for providing the means to avail of an abortion or early termination of a pregnancy.

This has been noted time and time again in numerous surveys conducted since the repeal of the 8th amendment, notwithstanding the circumstances in one tragic case that we know of where medical negligence caused the parents to make the decision to avail of an early termination of pregnancy leading to the death of a healthy baby. You may reject the terminology used, and that is your choice, but to use your perspective to suggest that a woman’s medical choices affect only her is not just patently false, it’s also objectively untrue and misleading.

Yours is not the single determining perspective by which all others must comply. I gather that’s not a difficult concept for you either as you’re keen to argue that other people should have no responsibility for the decisions an individual makes for themselves. This is the case I’m referring to btw -

https://evoke.ie/2021/08/28/news/couple-who-lost-healthy-baby-christopher-after-wrong-diagnosis-reflect-on-horrendous-loss

And with regards to medical professionals reluctance to provide anyone with the means with which to avail of an early termination of their pregnancy -

https://www.her.ie/health/just-one-in-10-gps-providing-abortion-services-in-ireland-says-report-525006

Perhaps ‘twas more of a flippant, reflex reaction off-the-cuff remark on your part to what was admittedly an equally ill-conceived attempt at an argument, but it’s worth pointing out IMO that your position is equally ill-thought out and certainly not a representative or accurate representation of reality.

Tork

Feck sake. I've noticed your posts here because you like to provoke people - it verges on trolling at times. Are there any depths to which you won't sink in your efforts to stir things up on boards?

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117815603#Comment_117815603

I’m sure anything which you come up with is perfectly reasonable to you, but that’s not the same as suggesting it should be perfectly reasonable to anyone else who isn’t you or doesn’t agree with your perspective.

What’s not amazing in the least is that you miss the point of your own observation that morality isn’t set in stone and is subjective. Your observation is useless unless you wish to argue that there should be consequences for people who are in your opinion, bad people.

That’s when the idea of whether a position is reasonable or not actually matters.

uptherebels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117815614#Comment_117815614

I see you avoided using the word "person" why is that?

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117815642#Comment_117815642

Oh it is, it’s really, really stupid. So stupid in fact, it’s not even worth entertaining.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117815682#Comment_117815682

Because your observation ignores the fact that everyone believes their own morals are correct and should be applied to everyone else. Nobody believes their morals are wrong in the first place which would make your observation mean anything.

uptherebels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117815592#Comment_117815592

That's some load of waffle. Where was the flippant reflex reaction you speak of?

Doctors are free to provide or not provide and medical services they wish.

Please tell us jack, how does a random woman having an abortion affects you?

[Deleted User]

The most vocal pro lifer I know is a man who had two kids with two different women and abandoned them both. He was adopted himself so maybe it's just his way of inflicting his kind of justice on the world but women are all crazy b***ches anyway.

Should all children be considered a blessing? Yes. Would the world be a better place if all children were rightly treated as a gift? Absolutely. It is a sad reflection on society that we are at this place where life can be disposed of so readily but it is where we are.

I voted yes but it wasn't for the sake of procreational management. There were many medical reasons that made making life or death decisions more difficult than they needed to be, in cases of fatal fetal abnormality, or as someone has already mentioned, where a woman's life may otherwise be in danger without treatment and that treatment affecting the fetus whether that be cancer or any other life threatening illness. I believed that a woman has a right to live.

My choice wasn't utterly made until the day before the vote, when the body of Anna Kerigel was found. It was for me at least, the deciding factor and it wasn't because I thought the scrotes who did it should have been dissolved in spermicides at conception. I was just reminded that as a woman she was just body and I think I felt that we've been doing this long enough and nothing ever changes. That's all a woman will ever be, a body. A vessel, a womb, a mother, a daughter, a wife. I don't know, everything but an individual with rights or wants or needs.

Do I promote abortion, no I don't. I'm not a church goer but I did talk to a religious about it and I did ask for forgiveness because it was something that weighed heavily on my heart. I have a daughter myself so I know what it is to raise a child alone in the face of adversity. I don't plan on going to church or receiving communion any time soon so it wasn't for the sake of being devout. But for the memory of Anne Lovett and all those women who went before us.

(I can't insert links but *presses play on 9 Crimes)

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117815711#Comment_117815711

The flippant reflex reaction I spoke of was your claim in response to the false equivalence of public masturbation, that a woman’s medical choices affect only her.

I explained to you why that’s simply not the case, and you respond by acknowledging that not only was your first statement incorrect, but now you want to know how someone else’s medical decisions affects me personally, again indicating that you’re missing the point being made.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117815716#Comment_117815716

There’s no going around in circles though as the 8th amendment was introduced and passed at a time when the majority of those who voted saw it as a reasonable imposition on Irish society, and decades later the majority of those who voted saw the 8th amendment as an unreasonable imposition on Irish society. The idea that anyone’s going around in circles is simply demonstrably untrue as their influence affected the outcome of the referenda on the issue both times when it was put to the electorate.

Chrisam

I was pregnant during the spring/summer of 2018 and found the debate very hard, hearing the foetus being so dehumanised - to the point that it didn't merit any rights at all.

Due to a previous miscarriage, I had an early scan at 8 weeks. Heartbeat was strong at 161 bpm and the (albeit turtle-like) image on the ultrasound was bouncing around. We got a print out with the details, the most important being "viable pregnancy". Said baby (now nearly 3) is now wreaking havoc in the living room, as I type!

I voted no because I knew it wasn't just a clump of cells, didn't like the deliberate dehumanising of the foetus and felt that being "unwanted" wasn't justification for snuffing out a life.

uptherebels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117815741#Comment_117815741

How did I acknowledge that my first statement was incorrect?

The only person a woman's medical choices affect is herself. You claimed it affects everyone in society yet can't say how it affects you.... Why is that? Is it you aren't a part of society or infact your claim is nonsense

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117815835#Comment_117815835

It appears I was wrong to assume your opinion was coming from a place of uninformed ignorance. It now appears your ignorance is in fact deliberate in that you choose to ignore the fact that you’ve just acknowledged that a woman’s medical decisions don’t just affect only her, when you acknowledged that doctors are free to provide abortion services or not if they do wish, with the point being that if doctors do choose to provide abortion services, then they ARE in fact responsible for the consequences of a woman’s medical decisions which you claim affects only her.

I gave you a real-life example where that simply isn’t the case, and the medical professionals involved were held responsible and accountable for medical negligence. You can certainly choose to ignore facts which contradict your opinion, but that doesn’t mean the facts themselves don’t exist and don’t influence a woman’s medical decisions or the effects of her decisions on anyone else.

I claimed that abortion is an issue which affects everyone in society which is why it’s strictly regulated not only in medical contexts but also in Irish law, both in our Constitution, and in legislation, which applies to everyone in society, regardless of the fact that you wish to claim otherwise.

uptherebels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117815931#Comment_117815931

A doctor choosing not to perform a medical procedure isn't an example of a woman's decision on her body effecting another person what an odd straw to clutch at.

You have had two chances to back up your claim yet you just waffle. That tells us everything we need to know.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117816035#Comment_117816035

Very gracious of you and all to offer two chances to back up by claim, they weren’t necessary in any case as I had only ever intended to correct your original claim, and the fact that you persist in your ignorance tells me at least everything I need to know in your case, regardless of what it may or may not suggest to anyone else.

You’re so keen to point out what is or isn’t any of my concern, well there’s one for you - the idea that I should care what anyone else wants to believe, in spite of the facts which mean their claims are simply untrue and easily demonstrated as such.

Were your claim to have any merit whatsoever, it wouldn’t be necessary to impose restrictions in law upon what services are provided and how they are provided which influence anyone’s decisions regarding their medical care. The fact that we do, is every indication that your claim is patently nonsense, and deserves to be dismissed as such in the same way as the equivalence with public masturbation deserved to be dismissed in the first place.

uptherebels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117816102#Comment_117816102

Have you decided if you are part of society yet? It's not a difficult question unless you want to backtrack on your nonsense claim.