The Ivermectin discussion

Yeah. In the interest of disclosure, I am vaccine hesitant. But I'm not on the Ivermectin bandwagon other than thinking it's a good idea to be investigating as many potential therapeutics as possible, if they have shown in-vitro promise. Ivermectin could be as good as the most optimistic papers say or as useless as the most pessimistic, and right now there's just too much noise to make a prediction either way. I hope the PRINCIPLE study will shed some light, when the Ivermectin phase is completed.

I'm aware that there are some oldskool anti-vax, anti-mask types out there who think ivermectin is being suppressed by Big Tech so that Gates can get his 5G magnet into their arm and Big Pharma can restock Nancy Pelosi's child-luring ice cream freezer so that she, Ursula and Klaus can turn us all into techno-serfs under the control of a one-world, China-lead government. But those people are not going to be reached by information that is just as crazy (as far as Ivermectin goes) in the other direction, when descriptions like "toxic horse paste" are easily shown to be the propagandistic nonsense that the conspiracy theorists claim is everywhere and about everything.

Those people will probably not be reached by anything, in fact, so if those sort of articles and posts achieve anything, aside from giving those who are already "against" Ivermectin and have a general dislike for those who put their faith in it as a wonder drug a warm tingle of smugness for ten minutes, the it is to make people who are on the fence, or who have looked into Ivermectin and come to the conclusion that most of us here seem to have come to (ie. that Ivermectin ought to be investigated properly but there is no clear signal yet either way), wonder why, exactly, there is such obvious pressure to make sure that the reputation of a molecule is tainted. And in turn to damage the trust they have in what ought to be our general instruments of sense-making. As I said: hard to understand the motivation.

Between these two, Dr. Kataria/FLCCC, if I or my family get sick we will be following some of the things they suggest

(not Ivermectin by FLCCC - cant get it in Ireland and am not entirely sure of its efficacy).

In a years time we could be using Ivermectin as a preventative aid and treatment.

I can see why it is used in India and USA as its something they use, but its not a drug we use much of historically in Europe. Hiqa reports in 2021 seem to be its unlikely to be suitable in an irish care setting.

Some of the other things such as vitamins, nasal sprays, mouthwash, breathing exercises to improve lung function are common sense.

Dr. Katarias video, no fancy treatments, just a lot of common sense.

Getting your body through in the best possible shape during that inflammatory stage.

She seems like a really good doctor, we need doctors of her calibre in this country (4 million youtube views - i suggest many of which are Indian).

Looks interesting...

Stay positive, i know you want to.

A study conducted in healthcare workers does not mean the subject of the study is only intended for healthcare workers.

I’ve used a HPMC nasal powder for a long time to ward off allergens, but I make sure to use one any time I’m going anywhere that’s likely to be crowded now.

https://c19adoption.com/

Good databases of all theraputics/updated trial data.

Enormous the amount of work going on and very heartening.

4th trial of fluvoxamine results out (see above).

All 4 trials have shown early treatment significantly reduces severe covid.

This is a complex disease that needs multi-pronged approach:

• Vaccines
• Anti viral treatments.
• Anti-inflammatory treatments.
• Anti-coagulant treatments.

Excess inflammation in the lungs and or blood clotting in the body is what kills.

This whole family of SSRI's is worth investigation.

They seem to attack covid virally, reduce inflammation and reduce coagulation.

Looks like a winning combination.

4 out of 4 aint bad.

Fluvoxamine can have a few side affects nausea etc.

Fluvoxetine and Sertaline I heard are better tolerated by patients and look as impressive.

How many countries have allowed its use for covid?

In europe it is currently Slovakia and Czech Republic.

Ireland are only using it for ICU patients.

Apologies I must have just made the above up, while your valid source knocked down my argument completely.

Apologies again Doctor.

Whats your early care plan for covid?

All I can see in ireland is stay at home with covid

and take no treatment until your lips turn blue.

Two weeks after infected go to the hospital.

Obviosly the most optimal care.

Brilliant 18 months into a pandemic.

I have heard annecdotely of irish doctors taking horse paste ivermection as prevention from covid.

History will not remember this time kindly how hse/nphet and other authorities around the world have dealt with early treatment of covid.

Nothing in irelands case.

I have taken the vaccine as have most of the population and covid is rampant.

We listened to the doctors and hse about vaccines and hospital numbers are going up every day.

Look how eastern europe are doing for last 3-4 months who are widely using this.

In many eastern european countries you can order it from a pharmacy as soon as you are sick with covid.

Look how quickly Delta wave came down in India.

Do they use Ivermectin in India?

In Africa?

Its better evidence in fairness than your anecdote.

Got vaccine as did my neighbour and all their family.

Their whole family is at home sick with covid presently (not in great shape at present).

Vaccines cannot be seen in a vacumn by hse.

There is more in hospital in NI at present than their first wave and have high vaccination levels.

Vaccines alone is not good enough and I'm sorry but GPs are doing very little other than telling patients youve been sick long enough at home go to a hospital. That is not great care.

Treatments in a hospital: when you have been infected for two weeks (incubation 5-6 days) and then sitting at home for 8-9 days.

You dont think those people (40 a day currently) would be better served with early outpatient treatment to avoid hospitals and to be in better shape when they get in their.

The damage is done by the time they are in hospital.

It will be a treatment here in the future.

How else do you explain covid clearing up so quickly in india.

We let high covid stick around like a bad smell.

Every doctor prescribing this to sick and non sick in india, reduced r rate.

It could be as good as vaccines, look at eastern europe.

We need a multi-pronged approach.

Through everything at covid to reduce cases.

There was and is drugs out there that were effective in the treatment of covid but we weren't fed that narrative. Instead we were ferried down the road of vaccination being the only solution. The whole response to covid was worse than covid itself. This video explains it better from an actual doctor who is more than qualified to judge.

Most Doctors who endorse ivermectin are not against vaccines.

Pierre is vaccinated as is family and his parents.

He got covid a few weeks ago and took ivermectin.

The anti ivermectin brigade try to make out people who take ivermectin are anti vaccines.

The amount of stories I have heard this week in ireland of people getting covid after vaccine is shocking.

Get vaccinated as mitigation, but there also has to be a plan b.

You stick to your principles, being pragmatic is better.

Your question about ivermectin is why is it not widely used:

Its is widely used in:

South America

Growing in North America(despite regulatory difficulties).

Africa

Asia - India, Malyasia etc.(not in china, south korea, japan due to extreme covid suppression endorsed by countries).

Not in Austrailia/New Zealand (due to zero covid).

Eastern europe - slovakia, czech republic, romania etc.

The only place it is not widely used in the world is western europe despite high levels of vaccines and high levels of covid.

We are the outlier not everyone else.

There is 7 billion people on the globe and western europe make up less than 15% of population.

China make up 20%, but there is no ivermection there as there is no need for it at present.

Please read.

Both are in there.

Or ignore, i dont really care.

Factually what you have said above is untrue.

I didnt "stop pushing".

I was sitting on the fence with ivermectin.

I do believe it works and is another mitigation against severe covid.

I dont believe current vaccines will stop you getting covid and believe we need an early treatment than

sitting at home hoping youll get better.

Most will, many wont.

My neighbour and all the family are fully vaccinated and infected currently.

All in bad shape at this stage.

Not the most ringing endorsement of vaccines.

Im vaccinated and believe eevryone should take one, but it will not end this crisis or of people going everyday

to hospital with covid.

So you think western europe including (Ireland) have nailed it.

Circa 50 people today will be wheeled off to hospital, infected 2 weeks ago and the hse has told them to take nothing more than a painkiller for treatment in that time.

While the rest of know we will all eventually be infected with covid due to high case numbers daily and vaccines that wane within a few months of being

injected.

Look how quickly indias delta wave went down and low cases/deaths presently despite being a "third world country" and over a billion people.

Look how well eastern europe is doing currently.

The worst hit countries in all of this is in your 98% club.

NI is having a worst wave of hospitalisations and deaths currently than in its first wave.

Despite high level of vaccinations and access to "best doctors and best reasearchers".

Get out of it.