The Ivermectin discussion

Unicorn Milk Latte

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117792364#Comment_117792364

Yes, but while that is true (Mercola had to remove claims that vitamin D cures Covid from his website after FDA warnings), the main point I was trying to make is that there are scammers like Mercola who create antiqvax FUD for the mere purpose making money - like selling generic vitamins at insane prices.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117792735#Comment_117792735

The Washington Times is in the anti-Biden camp anyway and we know what Malone is and it's nothing to do with mRNA vaccines. They really do fete their celebrity "scientists" over there and let them away with murder.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117793101#Comment_117793101

I'm on the "more data required" side of the Ivermectin thing, but it's not true that we know nothing about Ivermectin. It's a drug that's been in human use for nigh on forty years, has been dosed in the billions, has a good safety profile, is on the WHO list of essential medicines, and has shown antiviral properties in-vitro against a good number of viruses (its effects against chikungunya and yellow fever are currently being studied).

The all-out attacks on ivermectin make me a little crazy. They are disinformation in and of themselves, and when strongly-worded articles or frothy, rabid forum posts pop up saying, essentially: "lol idiots want to use a horse parasite drug instead of getting a vaccine", they raise my brow. I've seen some ostensibly serious journalists describe Ivermectin as a "drug used to de-worm livestock" and never even mention that it has been used in humans in any capacity, much less been considered an essential medicine by the WHO.

It is easy to see why people who think Ivermectin works would want to push ahead with treatment: if a therapeutic were as effective as some apparently believe Ivermectin to be, then it would indeed be unethical not to do all one could to advocate for its use in frontline medicine. The motivation of those who seem hell-bent on ensuring Ivermectin is considered to be dangerous, ineffective, animal-only drug for conspiracy theorists, Trump supporters and kooks, while trials are ongoing? Well that is much less clear.

The Raging Bile Duct

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117793431#Comment_117793431

I've no doubts that Ivermectin has many benefits, it just caused a raised a raised eyebrow when I saw it being promoted as the treatment that works from people I know on facebook that are extraordinarily anti-vax and anti-mask - a quick google seemed to indicate that the jury was still out on its effectiveness and more trials were needed. From my own viewpoint, I just don't understand why Ivermectin is acceptable to these people but masks and vaccines are not.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117793431#Comment_117793431

I'm in the group that it would be awesome if it was proven to work as it's one more medicine in the arsenal to fight COVID with, however, working against that is the lack of well run studies despite there being no barriers to doing so (other medicines have been through studies already and deemed good to use or eliminated), the fact that any company can make and sell it as a generic but have chosen not to and the very very grifty people that have latched onto it and are pushing it, I mean, the Malone, long COVID piece was one of the classic ploys to eliminate people who won't fall for it and ensure those you're targeting are easily manipulated (e.g. the Nigerian prince email scam).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117793474#Comment_117793474

Yeah. In the interest of disclosure, I am vaccine hesitant. But I'm not on the Ivermectin bandwagon other than thinking it's a good idea to be investigating as many potential therapeutics as possible, if they have shown in-vitro promise. Ivermectin could be as good as the most optimistic papers say or as useless as the most pessimistic, and right now there's just too much noise to make a prediction either way. I hope the PRINCIPLE study will shed some light, when the Ivermectin phase is completed.

I'm aware that there are some oldskool anti-vax, anti-mask types out there who think ivermectin is being suppressed by Big Tech so that Gates can get his 5G magnet into their arm and Big Pharma can restock Nancy Pelosi's child-luring ice cream freezer so that she, Ursula and Klaus can turn us all into techno-serfs under the control of a one-world, China-lead government. But those people are not going to be reached by information that is just as crazy (as far as Ivermectin goes) in the other direction, when descriptions like "toxic horse paste" are easily shown to be the propagandistic nonsense that the conspiracy theorists claim is everywhere and about everything.

Those people will probably not be reached by anything, in fact, so if those sort of articles and posts achieve anything, aside from giving those who are already "against" Ivermectin and have a general dislike for those who put their faith in it as a wonder drug a warm tingle of smugness for ten minutes, the it is to make people who are on the fence, or who have looked into Ivermectin and come to the conclusion that most of us here seem to have come to (ie. that Ivermectin ought to be investigated properly but there is no clear signal yet either way), wonder why, exactly, there is such obvious pressure to make sure that the reputation of a molecule is tainted. And in turn to damage the trust they have in what ought to be our general instruments of sense-making. As I said: hard to understand the motivation.

Lumen

@[Deleted User] wrote

..descriptions like "toxic horse paste" are easily shown to be the propagandistic nonsense..

"Horse paste" is not propaganda, it is literally what some loons are taking, the toxicity comes (presumably) from getting the dosage wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTvd7oAEyhs&t=33s

https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/FLCCC-Protocols-%E2%80%93-A-Guide-to-the-Management-of-COVID-19.pdf

Between these two, Dr. Kataria/FLCCC, if I or my family get sick we will be following some of the things they suggest

(not Ivermectin by FLCCC - cant get it in Ireland and am not entirely sure of its efficacy).

In a years time we could be using Ivermectin as a preventative aid and treatment.

I can see why it is used in India and USA as its something they use, but its not a drug we use much of historically in Europe. Hiqa reports in 2021 seem to be its unlikely to be suitable in an irish care setting.

Some of the other things such as vitamins, nasal sprays, mouthwash, breathing exercises to improve lung function are common sense.

Dr. Katarias video, no fancy treatments, just a lot of common sense.

Getting your body through in the best possible shape during that inflammatory stage.

She seems like a really good doctor, we need doctors of her calibre in this country (4 million youtube views - i suggest many of which are Indian).

https://twitter.com/Covid19Crusher/status/1428991697741025282

I believe at this stage (18 months in) the above is true.

https://frenchdailynews.com/society/2899-an-incredible-algae-against-covid

Looks interesting...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117793645#Comment_117793645

Describing Ivermectin as "toxic horse paste" absolutely is propaganda, if that is the only information given about the molecule in the piece. Explaining that some people have taken anti-parasitic horse paste in pursuit of Ivermectin because it is not proven effective and therefore not licensed for use against Covid-19, and that those products are inconsistent and dangerous is a different thing. Far, far too many examples of the former appearing in what are ostensibly reliable media outlets.

Piollaire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117793709#Comment_117793709

You can get this in Boots - https://www.boots.ie/boots-dual-defence-nasal-spray-20ml-10220406

Unicorn Milk Latte

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117793431#Comment_117793431

The all-out attacks on ivermectin make me a little crazy. They are disinformation in and of themselves, and when strongly-worded articles or frothy, rabid forum posts pop up saying, essentially: "lol idiots want to use a horse parasite drug instead of getting a vaccine", they raise my brow.

You do realise that Ivermectin Horse dewormer is sold out on Amazon, because actual people here in the real world are buying it for Covid protection and treatment. Feel free to go to amazon.com and find Ivermectin horse paste from different resellers, and then look at the comments from people who bought this.

Yes, these people who are afraid of getting a vaccine that has been administered to millions without issue, but are not afraid of ingesting horse paste, have a screw loose.

No-one ever claimed Ivermectin is ineffective as horse dewormer, or that the variants sold for human consumption are ineffective in what they are actually supposed to treat. Straw man.

virginmediapls

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117793709#Comment_117793709

Looks like complete and total horseshit. No science, sentences poorly constructed, made up figures.

Absolute **** tripe.

Unicorn Milk Latte

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117793709#Comment_117793709

It looks interesting for what it is - a study based on a clinical trial that is not yet peer reviewed, that looks into

Efficacy of a nasal spray containing Iota-Carrageenan in the prophylaxis of COVID-19 in hospital personnel dedicated to patients care with COVID-19 disease

So, not a Covid treatment, prophylaxis only, not a replacement for vaccines, and only intended for health care workers in a Covid ward.

The study came out before vaccines were widely available. It states:

Implications of all the available evidence A simple intervention such as the administration of a nasal spray with Iota-Carrageenan, in addition to hand hygiene, use of personal protective equipment and social distancing, could provide additional protection until vaccines can be administered to the majority of the population.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117794843#Comment_117794843

Stay positive, i know you want to.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117794803#Comment_117794803

100's of Nasal sprays developed in last year.

All of them help in some way or another.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117794843#Comment_117794843

A study conducted in healthcare workers does not mean the subject of the study is only intended for healthcare workers.

I’ve used a HPMC nasal powder for a long time to ward off allergens, but I make sure to use one any time I’m going anywhere that’s likely to be crowded now.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117795090#Comment_117795090

I have bought several brands in the last 18 months:

Viraleeze

Taffix

Enovid

Enovid and taffix have HPMC.

Taffix claims 78% protection from trial in 2020.

Enovid claims it can reduce viral load by 95% after one day of treatment in covid positive persons.

99.9% after 3 days treatment in phase 2 trial in UK hospital.

They all use similar ingredients HPMC, Carrageenan, Astrodiner Sodium.

There is something to them I believe.

https://c19adoption.com/

Good databases of all theraputics/updated trial data.

Enormous the amount of work going on and very heartening.

Unicorn Milk Latte

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117795476#Comment_117795476

Enormous the amount of work going on and very heartening.

Very true.

In the spirit of staying positive - I know this will sound like science fiction, but bear with me for a moment: one could imagine that a medication could be developed where, instead of having to spray your nose 3 times a day for moderate protection, one could have one or two single small injections of a hypothetical drug, that would prevent death and hospitalisation altogether.

I know this sounds a little insane - after all, new drugs need to go through a lengthy testing process till they are considered safe and available to the public. But imagine that one could speed up this testing process, by starting several tests at the same time, rather than doing them one after another. Same safety standards, faster approval. Some brilliant minds could come up with something like that.

So, if we stay positive - I know we want to - could we imagine something like that, maybe in the not too far future?

The Raging Bile Duct

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117797408#Comment_117797408

That's some bizarro fantasy land you're living in there, bucko. I have something you might have heard about called an immune system so you cling to those dreams and I'll stick to my 12 vitamin D tablets a day and 20 minutes of shining a UV light up my hole.

Unicorn Milk Latte

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117797992#Comment_117797992

That may not work much longer. You may have heard of a new nefarious government program that is called 'vaccination'. It has the sole purpose of making people more compliant. Obedient. Sheep like.

There have been many people critical of this government measure, and refused to have it done to them.

But - and this is shocking news - the government has now developed a new biological weapon that targets only the unvaccinated, and makes a lot of them very sick. Some even die. Just to retaliate, because they don't comply with their vaccination scheme.

This new weapon is called the 'Delta Variant' in government speak.

https://twitter.com/AngelaReiersen

4th trial of fluvoxamine results out (see above).

All 4 trials have shown early treatment significantly reduces severe covid.

This is a complex disease that needs multi-pronged approach:

• Vaccines
• Anti viral treatments.
• Anti-inflammatory treatments.
• Anti-coagulant treatments.

Excess inflammation in the lungs and or blood clotting in the body is what kills.

This whole family of SSRI's is worth investigation.

They seem to attack covid virally, reduce inflammation and reduce coagulation.

Looks like a winning combination.

4 out of 4 aint bad.

Fluvoxamine can have a few side affects nausea etc.

Fluvoxetine and Sertaline I heard are better tolerated by patients and look as impressive.

https://twitter.com/julienpotet/status/1351814171315351554/photo/1

Cuddlesworth

Just wait till you find out about the common SSRI side effects.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117798286#Comment_117798286

This is all well and good but have any of them produced enough data on COVID that a regulatory authority might use to approve them? Most people would not be happy to take something like this off the back of small trials and the say so of some doctor pushing treatments.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3896539

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-021-01021-4.pdf?origin=ppub

How many countries have allowed its use for covid?

In europe it is currently Slovakia and Czech Republic.

Ireland are only using it for ICU patients.

spalpeen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117803499#Comment_117803499

Ivermectin? That is not being used in Irish hospitals. There is no more evidence for its efficacy against covid than there is for peanut butter. Source: I'm a doctor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117804043#Comment_117804043

https://trialsitenews.com/tropical-drug-ivermectin-being-tested-on-critically-ill-patients-in-ireland/

Apologies I must have just made the above up, while your valid source knocked down my argument completely.

Apologies again Doctor.

Whats your early care plan for covid?

All I can see in ireland is stay at home with covid

and take no treatment until your lips turn blue.

Two weeks after infected go to the hospital.

Obviosly the most optimal care.

Brilliant 18 months into a pandemic.

I have heard annecdotely of irish doctors taking horse paste ivermection as prevention from covid.

History will not remember this time kindly how hse/nphet and other authorities around the world have dealt with early treatment of covid.

Nothing in irelands case.

I have taken the vaccine as have most of the population and covid is rampant.

We listened to the doctors and hse about vaccines and hospital numbers are going up every day.

Look how eastern europe are doing for last 3-4 months who are widely using this.

In many eastern european countries you can order it from a pharmacy as soon as you are sick with covid.

Look how quickly Delta wave came down in India.

Do they use Ivermectin in India?

In Africa?