The Boggers Log

Itziger · 14-06-2021 7:55am

MrMacPhisto wrote: »

Very good points.

I think Itziger might be a good man to chime in here, given his relatively recent experience and his Sensei age bracket. If I recall correctly, he was struggling a little bit with the 2 sessions and moderate pace Long Run each week.

Dialling back the LR pace to more easy running pace while increasing the gap between session days by an extra day would be something I might consider as a master runner. The money in the plan is the tempo race pace days and the strength sessions.

I think TBL is probably pretty good at listening to the body at this point. These plans do approach red lines at points so that is something that really needs to be watched.

I think at +50, trying a different plan is very much a good idea, especially if you are trying to find something to bring you to a new level.

Who, me? Yeah, my two cents worth. First off, I've never seen let alone done the HM Hansons. I've only done the full plan. My question earlier was about doing 16k at HM pace...... Seriously, seriously doubt I could do that. But if we're talking about the marathon plan, yeah I'll chime in.

There's no doubt it is challenging. I was very wary of two sessions in 3 days. In fact one thing I tweaked was the Wednesday rest day. For an ould fella, I thought doing speed on Tuesday, nothing on Wed and marathon pace on Thursday was too hard so I did a little rec run each Wednesday. As for the 'Masters' angle. Yes, I wonder now, two years down the line if I could do the plan again. I've had a terrible 3 months of injury (hip, It band, knee) and am only just coming out of it. Did 10k yesterday. Longest run in ages. So for me now I'm back to doubting that I could handle speed and strength stuff and 5 sessions in 10 or 11 days. If I were to do the plan again I think I'd have to tweak a couple of things. The speed as such might have to be binned and instead I'd do 'Strength' on the Tuesdays. Either that or spacing out the sessions. Only problem there is that then you might be missing out on the all-important accumulated fatigue. Questions, questions.

I will say that I enjoyed the challenge of the plan and I do think changing things up in terms of type of training is good. You can't be doing the same thing year in, year out. Both the physical and mental boredom can't be good!

Murph_D · 14-06-2021 10:24am

Yep, the Hanson HM is not the same as Hanson M plan, although the philosophy is probably the same and the structure is near identical, scaled down in terms of tempo miles but of course those tempo miles are at half marathon pace, and they go up to seven miles.

Seven miles at HM pace is some workout, and if you're accumulating lactate it's not going to be pretty, so obviously the choice of target pace and effort is crucial.

Like the marathon version, it's the emphasis on goal pace in this plan that sets it apart. I've done both this plan and Pfitzingers's Faster Road Running HM plan - by comparison, Pfitzinger has hardly any runs at goal pace.

To complicate things, TbL is doing a 12-week version of the plan, which effectively means jumping in at week 7, to a schedule that also has greater mileage than the vanilla version. In my opinion this extra intensity is not needed for an 88-min target, especially given TbL's history of back trouble and other issues. So it's not surprising that the first couple of weeks have been a shock to the system.

I think, as with all plans, we have to distinguish between the method and the execution of the method. Any method can be tweaked, but the tweak will only be successful if you understand the method.

MrMacPhisto · 14-06-2021 10:57am

I have completed the advanced marathon plan 3 times (with a few tweaks), the Half plan two times (18 week version) and a couple of the 5-10k Hanson training blocks.

The 12 week half plan really throws you in at the deep end. 3x1mile at 5k pace is not an easy session even when you are in peak shape for a 5k race! The 18 week plan breaks you in a lot more gently. That is the main reason why I would suggest doing the speed sessions at 10k pace.

The method/ethos is the same throughout all the plans. 2 sessions per week (tues and weds) and a LR, with cumulative fatigue. As Murph says, the only difference really is the intensity. Running +5 miles at HMP or Strength sessions at 10secs per mile quicker is flirting with threshold pace. Running at or slightly lower than suggested paces should help significantly. Better to be a foot back from the cliff edge rather than an inch beyond.

Every time I have done these plans, either for a marathon, a half or a 5/10k I have always had the same thought. "I don't think I could possibly maintain this pace for the full race distance".

A Hansons Masters Training plan, that could sell??? A 9 day cycle could work well rather than 7 days.

It'll be very interesting to see how you get on as the weeks progress TBL. It will make fun reading. If it doesn't work out then so be it. Just be careful with the subtle difference between finding the training hard and training TOO hard.

ThebitterLemon · 16-06-2021 4:51pm

Start of week 3/12 Hanson’s hm plan

Thanks for all the pointers and advice, great collective resource, appreciate it.

The plan this week has over 60 miles, I won’t do that and will trim some easy miles while still trying to get north of 50 done.

Mon: physioterrorist bashed me up, but was happy that although the body was stiff and fatigued the back hadn’t inflamed. Was a bit tender afterwards so left it close to six to get out and just did an easy ramble around a local route:

Plan: 10 miles easy
Actual: 5.2 miles very easy.

Tue: plan rest/cross train.

Actual: 6 miles easy reversing yesterday’s route and adding a little bit. The weather down here is sh1te, cold, wet and windy, needed a running jacket

#wherethefcuksthesummer

1 hour functional strength routine.

Wed: plan wu/cd 8 x 800m @ 5-10k pace off 400 jog recovery

Back into Dangan for this, for some reason I don’t advance stress about these sessions like I do for the HMP ones. (but maybe I now should:()

Did 2 miles warm up and then onto the double pitch for the reps. Bit of a strange day, apart from badly needing the jacks the body felt fairly good, so I thought 6.20 pace should be ok. Not sure if it was the number of reps but my mind started telling me I wasn’t liking these.

Demons started taking control and at the end of rep 6 and 7 I walked for a few seconds before starting to jog. “You’re too auld for this sh1t” side of my brain definitely took over during rep 7 and the split was very poor. Out of nowhere “toughen up princess” mindset kicked in and the last rep was one of the fastest. Tough workout and I need to learn to mentally improve, was a big weakness in the past.

Splits: 6.22; 6.20; 6.23; 6.20; 6.24; 6.25; 6.36 & 6.19

Just over 8.5 miles for the day

Second jab tomorrow and then off to Waterford for 10 days

TbL

Murph_D · 16-06-2021 8:53pm

FFS. All ye young feckers getting the second jab before me.

'Toughen up, Princess' - good one! Must remember that and apply to myself.

ThebitterLemon · 16-06-2021 9:00pm

Murph_D wrote: »

FFS. All ye young feckers getting the second jab before me.

'Toughen up, Princess' - good one! Must remember that and apply to myself.

That’s why I was hoping I wouldn’t be offered the AZ jab D, the delay between the shots would potentially effect ability to travel.

Just send the HSE your recent 5k time and they’ll deduce you in the “at risk” category

TbL

Laineyfrecks · 16-06-2021 9:15pm

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

That’s why I was hoping I wouldn’t be offered the AZ jab D, the delay between the shots would potentially effect ability to travel.

Just send the HSE your recent 5k time and they’ll deduce you in the “at risk” category

TbL

:eek:
Looks like we can go together so D

ThebitterLemon · 16-06-2021 9:45pm

Laineyfrecks wrote: »

:eek:
Looks like we can go together so D

Jazus, I can’t even get a vaccine date ahead of that auld lad

TbL

ThebitterLemon · 20-06-2021 7:58pm

End of week 3/12 Hanson’s hm plan

Thur: mental day! Was heading to Waterford with the Clan for a few days holiday, had to go into Galway for my jab, needed to go into the office for a meeting and still hadn’t packed, so was up at the crack of dawn.

Plan: 10 miles easy
Actual: 4 miles recovery. Body was very very stiff starting off but I was pleased to see that it started easing out as I got into it.

Mrs TbL not happy that I was taking up room in the car boot with foam mat, foam roller, Thera gun, light weight and resistance bands! My suggestion that I was packing in priority order and she could stay at home didn’t go down well

Fri: after a day in Dunmore East and Tramore, I got a chance to get out in the evening and got some easy miles done around the perimeter of Waterford Castle Island. After 5 hours in the car yesterday and a few more hours today, the hips, glutes and back were aching. Even a couple of swims didn’t provide any relief.

Plan: 10 miles easy
Actual: 7 miles very easy. Nice run around the island on a predominantly grass trail, came across badgers, squirrels, deer, pheasant and something that looked like a stout or mink (I ain’t exactly David Attenborough

) Was going to finish at 4 miles but came across my daughter out doing her own run and we decided to do the loop again.

Sat:
plan: wu/cd 5 miles @ HMP (6.40)

actual: after breakfast in the hotel I got the ferry off the island and drove to the Waterford Greenway. Fantastic resource for running with an excellent smooth tarred surface. Was surprised that there wasn’t way more runners out on it. Got a 2 mile warm up done and started with the faster stuff. Don’t know if it was the novelty of the Greenway, the adrenaline from others out and about or an improvement in fitness but this run went very well. Thought I’d gone out too fast on miles 1 & 2 as they came in on target and when I turned at mile two I thought I was in trouble because a quarter of the way into the 3 rd mile the lap pace was still at 7.30 pace. I worked harder and got things back on track. It was warm and muggy and while not dying yet I knew I was working very hard. Mile 5 was definitely extremely tough but I wanted to avoid the big fade I’ve had the previous two weeks, so despite heaving lungs I toughened it out but was begging for it to be over. Watch beeped and I nearly fell on the railway track in my haste to stop! Walked a bit before a short jog to the car. Spent the day in Dungarvan and got a nice swim in at Clonea beach.

Splits: 6.38; 6.41; 6.38; 6.39; 6.46

Happy with the improvement although the thought of running an additional 8 miles at that pace is daunting!

Sun:

Plan: 12 miles
Actual: tight for time and very tight lower calf and foot muscles meant this was touch and go! Had to dash back from the kids doing Wibit in Dunmore East to have enough time before dinner to get this run done. Was worried about the foot but it did ease out a little as I trotted along. The Greenway was very quiet and I think I spotted only 2 other runners the whole time. Finished with a faster mile and an average of 8.17.

Very happy with the way this week went and hopefully I can layer further improvement on top in the coming weeks.

Plan weekly mileage: 63
Actual mileage: 51

Not concerned at all as the mileage leakage all came from planned easy miles and I might even trim the easy miles back further this week.

TbL

Murph_D · 20-06-2021 8:04pm

Came across a few stouts myself the other day. Cheers!

OOnegative · 20-06-2021 8:05pm

Murph_D wrote: »

Came across a few stouts myself the other day. Cheers!

Yeah, bloody stout!!! Talk about the Connemara yokel.

ThebitterLemon · 23-06-2021 8:27pm

Trying to get the runs in while on a family holiday is a challenge and the functional strength routines have been a resultant casualty.

Mon: took the Passage East ferry to Wexford and spent the day at different beaches. Dollar Bay beach was like something you’d find abroad, beautiful secluded and sheltered cove. After a late evening meal it was a struggle to get out at all.

Plan: 10 miles
Actual: 3 miles recovery along the Greenway with the young lad, body a bit stiff from the weekend efforts and all the driving.

When we first arrived the 2 min ferry journey across to the island was great fun and a novelty, a day or two later and it’s still a bit quaint, almost a week later, for a family of impatient boggers, it’s now that f’ing ferry is such a pain in the hole!!!!!

Tue: more swimming around Newtown Cove, and another run directly after dinner!

Plan: 10 miles easy
Actual: 4 miles with a belly full of sea food with my daughter. Gave up a half arsed attempt at a functional strength routine and retired to the couch with a protein bar and a bag of nuts.

Wed: horrible weather so into the cinema to see Kong v Godzilla, fell asleep!

Had a very short window to run today and was testing Mrs TbLs patience so I’d to trim the wu/cd miles more than planned here!

Plan: wu/cd with 16 (yes feckin sixteen) 400’s off 400 jog.

I’ve never run that many 400’s in a session before and if I’d time to think about it I’d have bricked it, but as it was I’d 75 mins to get this done and dusted, so headed to the greenway and got going! Only a mile warm up and into the faster stuff, wasn’t entirely convinced that the watch was picking up the paces correctly but bashed through it. Struggled in places with this and the last couple were very hard but I actually found this easier than both the 8 x 800’s and the 6 x 1k. At the end I was doing my usual heaving when an (even) older runner asked me if I was ok!

Rep splits were a bit all over the place:

6.06; 6.08; 6.05; 6.12; 6.12; 6.10; 5.44; 6.01; 6.04; 5.52; 6.33; 5.57; 6.13; 6.23; 6.31; & 6.04.

Happy to have it done.

Looking for a bit of advice, I’m supposed to race a 5k next Tuesday, plan is going well and I don’t want to balls it up so just looking for inputs on how to approach it?

Thanks

TbL

OOnegative · 23-06-2021 8:46pm

You can’t race a 5k leave it, don’t beat yourself up over it. Run a good hard session that will bring you up to something similar, 8x800, 5x1km along those lines.

Laineyfrecks · 23-06-2021 10:04pm

What exactly are you hoping to get from the 5k race? Is it an option in the plan as a session or just something you want to do?

ThebitterLemon · 23-06-2021 10:24pm

Laineyfrecks wrote: »

What exactly are you hoping to get from the 5k race? Is it an option in the plan as a session or just something you want to do?

Had hoped to break my 5k PB at an actual race.

No it’s not on the plan, I’d be swapping it out with a session

TbL

MrMacPhisto · 23-06-2021 11:03pm

I would just drop the faster speed session and go pretty close to full gas for the 5k race. 5km race shouldn't take too much out of ya, but if you don't feel recovered enough by the next session then I would push that session back by a day.

If it was a 10k or ten miler, I would probably replace one of the tempo sessions for that rather than the speed session, and run those races at my goal half marathon pace, with last few kms at a slightly faster pace. More jeopardy here as these are longer efforts and ultimately not the main goal.

Thats the way I tend to work around the Hanson SOS plans and racing. Don't be afraid to push sessions a day or two if necessary, but don't try and catch up either if you miss one or two along the way.

Laineyfrecks · 23-06-2021 11:10pm

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Had hoped to break my 5k PB at an actual race.

No it’s not on the plan, I’d be swapping it out with a session

TbL

If it was me i'd go for it, a 5k isn't too demanding on the body & the fact that it's a real race would seal the deal for me! But I'm no expert, so I'm sure you will be well advised here

Lambay island · 24-06-2021 8:45am

Laineyfrecks wrote: »

If it was me i'd go for it, a 5k isn't too demanding on the body & the fact that it's a real race would seal the deal for me! But I'm no expert, so I'm sure you will be well advised here

Also agree with this. I hugely regretted not running 5k races last summer when races were actually happening,to only run virtual stuff with all my training a few months later.

shotgunmcos · 24-06-2021 9:12am

Run it on feel, ignore the watch.
Decent dive entry, although the crossed legs would drop it to a 5-5.5/10

ariana` · 24-06-2021 9:18am

Laineyfrecks wrote: »

If it was me i'd go for it, a 5k isn't too demanding on the body & the fact that it's a real race would seal the deal for me! But I'm no expert, so I'm sure you will be well advised here

Far from any kind of expert here but right now I'd jump at a chance to race. At the end of the day none of us here are elites, we're all doing this for fun and personal achievement - it's about what you want to do and what makes you tick, it was me I'd be thinking it's been too long since real races to pass up the chance

Swashbuckler · 24-06-2021 2:56pm

If you think you will fully commit to a PB effort then I'd go for it if I was in your shoes...But if I had any doubts about whether I was really committed to the pain of it then id go with the session.

Murph_D · 25-06-2021 9:57pm

Plenty of good advice there. If it's a real PB attempt it's going to take plenty out of you for a few days and I'd consider not doing the tempo session at all that week - the specificity of a raced 5k will give you more than enough stimulus for the week. The timing of the race means the speed session is out too - but you should be recovered enough to put something into the long run - depending on whether the schedule calls for one of the easier LRs or one of the 'steady' ones (assuming your plan has both types).

Good luck and mind yourself!

ThebitterLemon · 28-06-2021 4:18pm

End of week 4/12 Hanson’s hm plan

Don’t think I’ve ever completed as taxing a 4 week block of training, both mentally and physically, before! Happy to have come through it in ok shape though.

Was on holiday in Waterford with the family and all the driving and being out of a routine took its toll. I usually stretch every day but barely did it half arsed on holiday and had no time at all to do my functional strength routine that I’d normally do 3 times a week. Also missed my weekly session with the physioterrorist. Think this all caught up with me by the weekend as I was tired and stiff/sore.

Thur: 4 easy boring miles looking for a river trail but ended up mainly through housing estates.

Fri: almost didn’t run, zero motivation. Was wrecked after a day cycling the greenway and then overdid it on the nuts and Diet Coke at the cinema. The kids wanted to see the Fast & the Spurious and it didn’t finish till after 10 o clock. Took huge will power to lace up and plod a 5k around the hotel in the dark. Really didn’t enjoy this and I was started to get as stiff as fcuk!

Sat: wu/cd and 5 miles at HMP.

I’d zero expectations for this run and I’d have happily accepted 7 min pace as I felt drained and sore all over. Hit the Greenway and did a short warm up of 1.5 miles. Whatever is going on with my body it decided to play ball and I hit the pace handy enough, actually had to dial it in a bit. Did 2.5 miles out and back and definitely tired over the last 2 miles but the average pace on this session continues to fall week by week. Was very happy and surprised with this given the state of me at the start.

Splits: 6.34; 6.36; 6.35; 6.43; & 6.44

Sun: plan had 14 mile long run. Long drive home and bringing my daughter to her GA game (she scored 2-3 and the winning goal

) meant I didn’t get out till after 8pm. Was very stiff, glutes, back and calf were protesting and after a mile I decided to just run home. I probably could have continued and finished but with one eye on Tuesday I decide I’d prefer to try and save myself to run “fast” on Tuesday rather than get the LR easy miles in and add to the aches. Only got 4 miles done.

Need to get back into stretching and clean diet as I’ve developed a holiday belly!

Also have a bit of a tan but it’s more cedar than mahogany on the AMK tanning index

Hopefully I can get a good week in this week!

TbL

Laineyfrecks · 28-06-2021 5:32pm

Best of luck Tuesday:D

ThebitterLemon · 30-06-2021 4:20pm

Start of week 5/12 Hanson’s hm plan

Last weeks holiday, lack of routine, poor diet and all the time spent driving definitely caught up with me. Body was in bits and definitely feeling my age

Mon: physioterrorist was away today and the badly needed session was pushed back a day which didn’t suit me at all.

Plan: 10 miles easy
Actual: 5 miles very easy with my daughter.

Did some stretching and functional strength routine in the evening and had an epsom salt bath before bed.

Tue: visit to the physioterrorist, good news was there was no issue with the back but the rest of the body failed the NCT and I was in bits leaving. I’d usually never have a session on a race day but I felt I’d no choice.

Plan: wu/cd 6 x 1 mile @ HMP minus 10 seconds off 400m jog.

Actual: Seo Leat 5k race.

Drove the short distance over to the Connemara airport with the young lad at 5.45. He was doing the 6.30 race and I was doing the 8pm one. As usual the guys from Pop Up races organise a very efficient race. I was surprised with the turnout though and it was disappointing that more runners didn’t support this race. Fantastic setting for a race. Young lad is more interested in football and Fortnite and I’d to almost force him to do it but he was happy out when he finished.

I wanted to give this race a good crack and the recent boards 5k TT saw me hit 19 mins so I was hopeful of a better time. Did a long stretch and then a warm up on the course. The course was on the apron and runway and after a lap warm up I knew I was going to struggle with the turns. The route was 3 laps with 9 (I think) 180• turns.

A bit of a breeze picked up just before the start and that helped as it was warm.

Line up at the start and got going without too much fuss. The speedy guys took off and I tried to settle into my groove. 6.07 pace should see the job done and after a quarter of a mile I was on 5.40 pace so pulled it back, was passed by another runner at this stage but just focused on getting it done. Mile one beeped at 5.59 and while not comfortable I wasn’t dying. Around half way through lap 2 my hamstring started to ping and if it got worse I was going to drop out. Lap 2 came in at 6.07 and I was now starting to feel it a bit (mentally especially), I don’t like the hurt of 5k’s always preferred the slow torture of longer runs.

On the last lap I passed a runner in front of me on one of the turns and found this very hard to manage/maneouver. Looked at the pace and I’d fallen off to 6.20, gritted the teeth and managed to salvage a 6.07. Was very pleased with myself with that mile until I realised I was using Garmin distance/pace and it was a bit out, stupid bloody novice mistake. I was pissed off big time and sprinted as fast as I could, almost caught the lad who’d passed me, but I’d left too much to do. Even 5.14 pace for the .16 mile wasn’t enough and I crossed the line in 19.06.

Was seething at the end but I suppose a nights sleep brings some perspective. I wasn’t in great shape toeing the line, course while very flat was difficult and the 18.59 (Strava time) I ran for the Boards TT obviously wasn’t a real PB, Strava gave me a 5k time of 18.45 for the race. Next time I’m racing a unmarked course I’ll have to run Garmin splits of 6.02.

The positives are, a while ago I thought sub 20 was unattainable and I’m pissed of with a 19.06 (an official PB)

Might try another 5k if I can find a race in a few weeks.

Back to the plan for now though, I’m going to take the next few days easy. I’m supposed to run 6 miles @ HMP on Saturday but I might try and incorporate this into Sunday’s long run instead.

Wed: plan rest

Actual: recovery 3 miles very easy, hammy needs some attention as it very tight. Passed 1000 miles for the year so far.

TbL

Murph_D · 01-07-2021 12:33am

As I said on strava, "**** course, great time, congrats on the PB." I don't think you should be beating yourself up for that performance. It's a good lesson anyway - Garmin data has a big margin of error, especially on a **** course!

Fair play - not a bad time at all for a Jumbo.

Laineyfrecks · 01-07-2021 7:32am

Well done on the official PB

AuldManKing · 01-07-2021 11:19am

Fair play on that - I reckon 9x180's must cost about 2.65478 secs each!!

that's a superbly executed race and to get a PB out of it while feeling $hit - you have to take that!

Back in Black · 02-07-2021 8:22am

Congrats on the official PB. Shows that you are course for a good run in Antrim. Keep the head down and keep hitting the sessions and you will have a great run!

ThebitterLemon · 04-07-2021 8:34pm

End week 5/12 Hanson’s hm plan

Getting aulder is a b1tch!!!

Why can’t Amazon sell me back 20 years of my life, they do everything else

Happy I raced the 5k but not sure I’ll do another one on this plan. I could feel the hammy tighten during the 5k, right under the lip of the arse, and it’s annoying me since. I hoping it’s auld man rigour mortis rather than a small tear. Little to know pain when I walk but it aches when I run although it doesn’t get progressively worse.

It currently doesn’t like “pace” though and I might need to back next weeks sessions towards the back of the week.

Thur: plan 10 miles easy

Actual: 6 miles easy around Dangan

Stretching and Functional Strength routine

Fri: plan 10 miles easy:

Actual: ran just under 6.5 miles at a steady pace with my work buddy

Sat: plan wu/cd 6 miles at HMP

Actual: tried a longer warm up to test and see if body could manage this but it became quickly apparent that while the mind was gung ho the auld bag of bones had downed tools!

Managed just over 8 miles easy.

Stretching and functional strength routine

Sun: plan 14 miles LR

Actual: 14 @ 8.27.

Lots of tourists on the road not paying attention to their driving so I veered off my planned route and went on a small lovely quiet road for part of this.

Apart from aching hammy I actually felt ok on this and could have kept on going.

I’m trying every trick to loosen it out, Thera gun, foam rolling, hot/cold baths, magnesium, even the odd ibuprofen, oxygen tents (well more like a methane chamber after the extra protein

) but it’s a deep stubborn fcuker!!!

Have the physioterrorist tomorrow so hopefully she’ll be able to witch doctor it better.

Off to Dublin then for 2 nights and then abroad with work. Not looking forward to sessions in 28• heat

I’ll try my session early Tuesday morning but if it’s still acting up I’ll try again on Thursday and do the next one on the Saturday.

There’s no chance of me breaking my HM PB in Antrim and the goal is still to run 6.40 pace but it’s all geared towards a year end (early next year) sub 3 marathon attempt.

Physio wants me to get another back mri but I’m hoping to put it off till I’ve tried the marathon again.

TbL

ThebitterLemon · 15-07-2021 4:06pm

3F3602F5-996D-4EFD-8305-63A0EDC33C70.jpeg

Start of week 6/12 of Hanson’s HMP

Mmmmm…

Things starting to derail a little and had a bit of a psychological blow on the session.

Mon 5th: plan 10 miles easy.

Actual: 5k easy my daughter provided a bike escort. The physioterrorist visit was painful, I’ve hammy, hip flexor, glute and piriformis tightness that even after a week and treatment hasn’t gone away. Apparently my internal hip rotators are being also stressed. Drove to Dublin later in the evening and was staying in a hotel near the airport.

Tue: meetings in Dublin and a visit to my functional strength guy (went well said I’m making progress) but he advised me against doing anything too strenuous afterwards so that put the kybosh on the planned session.

Plan: wu/cd 4 x 1.5 miles @ hmp minus 10 sec, off 400m.

Actual: 9 miles steady. Horrible running weather, lashing rain and loads of traffic. I took a detour into Santry park (used to run there a lot when travelling with work a few years ago) and did and couple of laps. Had to dry my new runners with the hairdryer when I got back to the hotel!

Wed: plan: rest

Actual: 5m very easy.

Was up at 4am to get a flight to Barcelona. Airport very quiet and I couldn’t get anything to eat as almost everything was closed. Managed to get a nice breakfast in the W hotel in Barcelona before my first meeting. Also had a great late lunch in a fantastic restaurant, beside the Olympic diving pools, overlooking the city. I’m staying in Tarragona in Le Meridien, great hotel right on the beach! Once I checked in I got the gear on to get a stiffness reliever NHS in. There is a promenade that goes for a couple of miles which is great but it’s a concrete surface that’s a b1tch on the joints :(. Very very warm for a choc ice eating hanky wearing bogger!

Finished the 5 miles roasted like a pig on a spit and immediately jumped into the sea for a cool down swim.

Thur: plan 10 miles easy.

Actual: epic fail. Got up at 6am to get the Tuesday session done, 4 x 1.5 miles @ 6.30. It was warm but there was a breeze so can’t use that as an excuse. Didn’t take long to warm up so after a mile I hit the quicker stuff. Hammy and other niggles have eased out but the left glute med/piriformis is still very achey. Start felt awful but I settled into it and hit the first 1.5 mile rep bang on 6.30. Walked for a few seconds before jogging the rest of the 400m recovery. Started the second rep and was labouring big time! The mile binged at 6.34 and the fight just immediately drained outta me and I came to a full stop and sat down! After a couple of mins I tried to go again but was on 6.40 pace after a quarter of a mile and stopped again. Tried convincing myself to salvage something and get another fast mile done but again after half a mile at around 6.35 pace, I’d nothing left and just capitulated to a slow drudge back to the hotel. Jumped into the sea again before having a nice breakfast al fresco.

Thur: pm: 5k very easy with work buddy

Starting to get concerned and doubtful now. I’m supposed to do 6 miles at 6.40 pace on Saturday and there’s a cat in hells chance that I’ll be able to manage that. Running out of time and not baking a contingency week into the plan looks like it’s coming back to bite me!

TbL

Murph_D · 15-07-2021 4:54pm

I wouldn’t panic, you have to write off the week and go again when recovered. Not the end of the world (yet). Shows you the risk of an off-plan tune-up race if nothing else. I’d consider a few rest days or at most recovery days and see how you are on Monday.

ThebitterLemon · 15-07-2021 4:55pm

7DA3B046-E1AD-40E4-AC60-CDF816CEEB06.jpeg

Thur 8th: pm. Another easy 5k in the late afternoon sun.

Fri: another 5k double. Early morning very easy followed immediately by a sea swim and out again in the afternoon. Niggles not getting any worse but not much improvement either, frustrating.

Trying to get a PCR test to get home was a pain in the ass. Mainly antigen tests being used where I was and they couldn’t believe I needed a PCR test to get home despite being vaccinated :(. Eventually had to travel to a clinic to get it done and thank got my work buddy tagged along for the spin. I’ve no Spanish and they’d no English so I’d have ended up getting an STD test if he wasn’t there :) Handed over my passport and got the form, short wait and got done, it was only when handing over the form that my buddy noticed that they’d my name as “Conor Eireanach”!!!! (she used the nationality section as my surname!!). Took an age to get it bloody sorted!!

Sat: up early for the planned 6 miles at hmp, wasn’t looking forward to this as I’m still rigid. Spent a while stretching and got out around 7am in the 21• for this. Everything was annoying me on this run and I was right crotchety! The heat, the concrete, the bloody pidgins that didn’t move till the last minute, the lads cleaning the street…

First mile 6.40, hey ho let’s go, mile 2, 6.40 you can do it put your back in to it, mile 3, 6.50, slip sliding away, mile 4, 6.54, it’s the end of the world as we know it, and the auld surrender soldier make a reappearance, I died to a walk/jog back to the hotel for a swim.

Spent the day on the beach/pool eating like a lord and trying to chill.

Sun: plan 16 mile LR. Still very achey and niggly but managed to get 15.2 miles @ 8.23. The body can handle plod but it’s not liking the faster stuff at the moment.

Only redeemer for the week was the mileage at 57, biggest week in years.

I’m not going to push things next week as I feel like I’m on the edge of an injury, and I’d prefer to keep the show on the road rather and not hit my HM target rather than risk injury. Thanks to Phisto for the pointers.

I’m on the wait list for Valencia but unlikely to get in as I’m # 1520 on the wait list.

TbL

ThebitterLemon · 15-07-2021 5:00pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117615529#Comment_117615529

Thanks D.

yep unfortunately this week has seen minimal improvement, no session so far. Niggles slightly better but I started a session today and stopped immediately.

I’ll try the HMP session on Saturday and just try and redo this weeks session next week.

Not panicking just frustrated, but it was never going to be plain sailing so I’ll keep going even if it means I’ve to adjust my target.

TbL

Laineyfrecks · 15-07-2021 6:23pm

Not jealous at all of that pic😎

Do you regret racing the 5k? Do you think it is the reason you are having these few issues?

ThebitterLemon · 15-07-2021 7:18pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117616096#Comment_117616096

The break was great, sun and great (sensible) food.

id love to buy a place there as it’s not very touristy and it’s amazing

No I don’t regret running the 5k but I did learn some lessons

the deep tissue massage the day of the race was a bad idea.

the race obviously didn’t help but I actually think the holiday two weeks before were the root cause of the flare up.

out of a routine, 3 big sessions, no weekly physioterrorist, little stretching and no strength sessions when added to all the driving I was doing was never going to end well.

it’s unfortunately a fact of life that I seem to get waves of flare ups every now and then, I can handle the mild daily discomfort but the flare ups push me to the edge of injury.

I was on the phone with the physioterrorist today and when doing a muscle self check, the muscle from the inner knee to the top of the groin was so tight it was sore to touch. Either it was missed initially or it came on over the last week, but if that’s the issue I’ll be happy out as I should be able to ease it out over the next few days.

you’re flying, keep it up.

TbL

Laineyfrecks · 15-07-2021 8:05pm

Ah thanks a mill, I'm ticking over nicely & enjoying it!

Ok cool always wonder if it's worth racing something fast when you are training for something else...is it a recipe for disaster?

Hopefully you have sourced the root of it & as you say it would be great if you can work on it yourself:D

Yeah that's the dream isn't it, heading off into the Sun to enjoy an easy life!

Hannibal_Smith · 15-07-2021 11:09pm

Oh man. What I wouldn't give for a view like that and meal handed up to me!! Sorry... Nothing constructive to add running wise. Other than.... You were on the right road and hope you get back on to it.

ThebitterLemon · 22-08-2021 7:11pm

Jazus over a month since I’ve posted.

Horrible horrible new site format (don’t know how they can get it so wrong!) and not great on the training plan front.

Just as my injury issues were starting to improve we got the heatwave and I’m unable to run fast in the heat. I tried to jump back into Hanson’s plan with a confidence boosting 3x2 miler at HM pace. The only thing I remember about this was the heat and a complete and utter blow up.

I did manage to get a few of the long runs and the paces on these were ok and improving but everything else was mainly short and easy.

I did manage a 6 miler around targeted HM pace (6.40) and I still had a glimmer of hope for a decent result.

Went up North for 2 weeks holidays and during the first week I managed a decent 13 miler and, what I felt like was, a excellent run with 8 miles at 6.40 average finishing the last mile in sub 6.30. The weather was so bad that for the second I booked flights on a whim and dragged the family to Tarragona for some sun. Lovely weather but doesn’t suit an old Bogger for running, so just tipped along with very short and easy stuff.

Last Sunday I then attempted what I thought should have been an attainable run (especially after the 8 miles at 6.40 the 10 days previous), 10 miles @ 6.40.

Dear Lord whatever happened here is a complete mystery but I died a horrible death and what was most shocking was that I blew up from 3 miles in. It was horrendous and I ended up slowly jogging home.

The glimmer of hope was well and truly extinguished and I was back to thinking I’d struggle to break 95 mins in Antrim.

Went out this Wednesday evening and felt ok so I decided I’d try do miles @ 6.40. Felt ok so I kept going, first 5 went very well and I only really struggled when I got to mile 8 where I started to tire but I finished out 10 miles @ 6.41 average.

Antrim half is next week and I genuinely haven’t a clue what set of legs, lungs and head will turn up on the day

I'm not even sure how to approach it.

A sub 90 would be ok after coming back from years out but I’ve done it a fair few times before so it wouldn’t have me break dancing!

The plan all along was to go around at 6.40 pace but I’ve no quantity or quality done to justify that. The 6 miles at HM base was a pleasant surprise the 8 miles had me believing I could possibly do it the 10 mile blow up had me thinking I’d just jog it with my daughter and last Wednesdays 10 @ 6.41 has just left me confused.

Balls out for 6.40 or conservative to ensure the sub 90?

Rather than toss a coin I thought I’d ask the collective 😃

Thanks

TbL

healy1835 · 22-08-2021 7:47pm

I think it's worth just taking a step back and seeing how far you've come in the last while. You've come from almost writing off your entire running career save for maybe shuffling a few sub 25 min 5k's, to thinking that another craic at the Sub 3 holy grail might just be a runner.

Like you said, the sub 90 half may not be a milestone for you as you've done it many times before,but I reckon that what's more important is that you have a positive race experience that leaves you in a better place and with a better mindset for future races, whatever and wherever they may be.

I reckon 5 miles @6:50 systems check, 5 miles creeping towards 6:40, and then see what's in the tank. If you leave a minute or two out there, so be it, you'll have other days to right that.

That's my two cents anyway 😁

Murph_D · 22-08-2021 10:37pm

I genuinely don’t get the version of Hanson that has you doing 10 m at HM pace, but if I read that right, you managed it, or very close to it. If you can pull that off in training, you’ll do it on the day, as long as you stay upright. You’ve found the going tough but you owe yourself a shot at the target.

AuldManKing · 23-08-2021 10:53am

Fully agree with Healy above - even targeting a sub 1.30 half is something that you probably didn't see happening after the year you've had.

Breaking the race up as Healy advises is a good strategy - I also think you'll have more as its a race as opposed to a solo effort - and you are stubborn b0ll1x when you set your mind to it.

The race is an out and back - and according to the Strava has a hill at the turnabout point - hitting that in good spirits needs to be the goal and then you're on the home straight for the return.

6.50's early on, 6.40's on the way home - 6.3x to finish.

I echo the sentiment about a positive race experience - I think thats a must for most of us as we approach racing again.

ThebitterLemon · 23-08-2021 2:39pm

Thanks lads.

might hang around the 90 min pacer for a few miles and take it from there.

all going (relatively) well I’ll attempt a marathon before the year end

TbL

Laineyfrecks · 23-08-2021 2:40pm

I agree with what has already been said here. You have come so far with your training, it's brilliant to see so take all the positives from that.

Healy has made some great points & I'm far from an expert (that's what my mentor is for) but I would agree with Denis here. Training can be so tough at any time, some sessions go our way some don't. I don't know how many times I've convinced myself that I was going to have a really bad race because of sessions that left me feeling less than confident. I had 2 of my 1k reps recently in the one week, the 1st one should have been great, out in the PP fairly flat, weather was good but it was awful, felt really bad...then the next one went brilliantly felt so good after it! Race day is so much dependent on obviously the training but also it's a bit of luck & how you are feeling on the day! I think you will know yourself Sunday which one is best to go for & you will be happy with that choice but for now maybe don't give up on your dream 😊

Hopefully I will see you there providing I don't get lost!

ThebitterLemon · 30-08-2021 11:17pm

After the Antrim half, a line from one of Joe Walshes famous song springs to mind, “I can’t complain but sometimes I still do…”

An all over the place week with very easy short runs in the build up to the half. For the last 10 days or so my piriformis and glutes have been giving me a lot of pain. I was to see the physioterrorist on Tuesday but a car crash ( not me some else and road was blocked) on the way in meant I missed my appointment and typical she see was off to Liverpool for a few days so never got to see her. This messed with my head way more than it should have. Tried every trick I knew to relieve the pain but it wouldn’t budge.

Given my daughter was also running it there was no way I wasn’t going to show on the day but my plans on how to run it must have changed a dozen times from Wednesday.

We were staying the weekend in a Ballygally hotel and headed up on Friday afternoon, at the worst possible time, the traffic was mental and it took us over 6 hours to get up. Was very stiff and sore when I arrived but got a quick dinner in the hotel and headed out in the dark for a quick plod. First time I ever brought the Thera Gun with me to a race and I was wearing it out trying to relieve the pain.

On Saturday we headed into Larne for lunch and we were met by Orange Men marching bands out in force to welcome the Bogger 🤣

My daughter speaks to me in Irish sometimes especially if she doesn’t want people to know what she’s saying ( she assumes that anyone that lives outside Connemara is a non Irish speaking apostate 😳) and in the middle of a throng she asked me why all the old men were wearing those stupid things around their necks!!!! I had to give her the Dad stare to shut her up but at lunch she couldn’t get her head around it and was asking me loads of questions that I really struggled to answer. The difference between NI today and when I was a lad is like chalk and cheese!

Did another 5k around Ballygally and went into the sea in search of more pain relief.

I rarely take ibuprofen anymore but took some Saturday night and went to bed with my plan decided, I’d follow the 1.30 pacers for 5 miles to see how I was and if I blew I’d wait for my daughter and if able I’d try and push on.

Arrived early on Sunday morning and parked in a garage about 15 mins walk to the start, well I think it was the start as nobody seemed to know! It was chaos but it didn’t bother me as I was more concerned about making sure my daughter was settled. Parked myself behind the 1.30 pacers looking around to see if I could spot the Luminous Princess herself but no joy! After about a 20 min delay we were off with no pre warning just a slow collective movement forward. Whatever happened to the 90 min pacer he definitely wasn’t doing 6.52 pace after about 500 metres, in fact he was clipping it. I had to weave through serious traffic and it took me 6.30 pace to catch up. His second mile was fast too.

From the first step my piriformis was very sore but it wasn’t getting worse and I changed my plan to just try and run around in 6.40 pace and left the pacer behind before the end of mile 3. I got the occasional dirty shot of pain from the piriformis/glute but in a strange way this distracted me and the miles just ticked by. I seemed to be doing more passing than being passed and on hill on the way back from Ballygally I got a high five from my daughter. I thought I’d start to really struggle now but it never really happened and I just stayed fairly consistent with no wild oscillations in pace.

I didn’t like the steep downhill on the last mile nor the surface and at this stage I was on target to break the 6.40 average and I didn’t go flat to the mat to make extra seconds.

Finished with chip time of 1.26:27.

I know people will tell me to stop chatting sh1t but even a day later I’m perturbed/ disappointed. Yes I was injured and my training plan was in tatters but at my age opportunities don’t come along that frequently and I think that if I channeled my inner Ragnor Lothbrok I could have gone sub 1.26. Despite everything I feel like I could have and should have done better on the day and been more aggressive in the second half.

I took more satisfaction from my daughter’s 2.10 ( she didn’t think she’d run under 2.20)

Anyway it’s in the past and I’ll move forward. I’m hoping to do a marathon in November or December, I’ll use the Hanson’s sessions but reduce the filler mileage. Also want to chalk off a sub 19 5k as it’s being bugging me.

I’m going all in for a sub 3 and hopefully the saga will have a better ending that it did for Ragnor :)

Congrats to Elaine and Johnny on super runs

Finally thanks for all the really nice comments and compliments, made a cantankerous auld Bogger feel good 👍

TbL

Laineyfrecks · 31-08-2021 7:23am

Sorry we missed each other, I was hanging around the 1:30 pacer too but fairly in my own little world trying to stay focused & not let emotions take over...next time hopefully 😊

I'm not gonna say you shouldn't feel disappointed if you know exactly what you were after & you feel it didn't go that way BUT for someone that was questioning breaking 1:30 you completely smashed that & ran a superb race so maybe stop your belly aching & be very proud of that😉

I'm really happy for your daughter too, all our goals are equally valid regardless of times & if she smashed her goal then she must feel amazing & dad too🤗

Fair play setting your goals down now, you aren't afraid of hard work or saying when you feel maybe things aren't going so great but I really like that, none of us get it right all the time! Very best of luck with those goals but for now enjoy the fact that you went balls out for Antrim (achieved faster than the 6:40 pace) & didn't give up on the dream...

Murph_D · 31-08-2021 9:27am

Sometimes it’s just about grinding out a result, and while you haven’t gone into your usual level of detail, it sounds like that’s what you did here. I hear you on the point that PB opportunities are thinner on the ground for auld lads like yourself 😉 but you got more out of that training block than perhaps you had a right to expect, given the niggles and your fairly difficult execution of a plan that’s a lot harder than it looks on paper. Yes, no doubt the magic shoes helped but to get close to PB territory under those circumstances - as you know well - is an achievement worth celebrating.

A sub-3 marathon is going to require another level of consistency and greater injury risk, so you need to think carefully about how you’re going about that. As I’ve said before, you don’t need any souped-up Hanson for a sub-3, just a careful execution of the basic schedule.

But that’s all for another day. Well done to yourself and the young wan, whose as gaeilge mutterings suggest she’s definitely one of yours.

ThebitterLemon · 31-08-2021 2:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117826348#Comment_117826348

Indeed D.

Thanks

I’d have taken your hand off for anything around a 1.28 prior to the off!

Just feel I left a bit out on the course but it’s all hindsight and I could have blown up spectacularly.

Anyway I’m onto the next challenge already 😊

I had decided to jump into the 16 week Hanson’s advanced plan (60-80 miles) at week 4 (the work I’ve done so far should compensate for the late start). I’ll do the sessions and the LR and trim back the other days mileage. I don’t envisage going over 60 miles, and I’m sure it won’t be straightforward but I want to use the fitness I’ve built up rather than take a break and start again.

TbL

Back in Black · 02-09-2021 8:43am

Serious well done on that time - as you said yourself you would have taken a minute or 2 slower before the start. You have a serious foundation to build on for the next challenge.

I didn't make it to Larne as was struggling with a pulled hamstring but sounds like a great race - would you do it again?

ThebitterLemon · 02-09-2021 2:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117836541#Comment_117836541

Thanks J

wondered what happened to you as I couldn’t see you in the results.

I wouldn’t do it again because of the drive but the number in the race ensured you were always surrounded by other runners and I found that a great help.

you back at it now? What’s the plan?

TbL

The Boggers Log

Comments