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Running away

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,287 ✭✭✭ariana`


    The pace was prescribed at 7:10. I'm not tuned into HR for these faster efforts at all but I know I never go near my max even though I may feel like I can't go any faster. Maybe I just don't have the stomach for pain, it's been so long since I've done a race or been pushed along by any outside factors. I've been working on running them more smoothly - to get away from that fast start, slow middle and fast finish scenario. Other than having lap pace visible on the watch I do an effort check in with myself - but the harder I'm working, the less likely that will happen 😕

    I've used HR for easy runs over the years and lately I'm using it on my long runs and finding it really helpful in those long efforts, I can feel and measure the difference that just adjusting my pace by as little as 5-10 seconds/mile can make and as such am getting a better feel for what i maintain for a sustained period. I think ultimately it will determine my marathon pace.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    I only ask to try to understand the purpose of those sessions. 10 x 3 mins is a big session - certainly too big IMO to be at typical 'speed' pace. Your LR pace is quite similar to mine (maybe a bit faster, depending on the type of LR) so by that comparison I'd expect 7:10 to be close to your 'tempo' or LT pace.

    Are you being coached or following a plan? What's the M target pace? Just curious.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,287 ✭✭✭ariana`


    Coached since last October D. 7:10 is definitely 'speed' pace for me, it feels like 5k effort and yes 30mins at 5k effort is a big session but I've been doing one big session like that all year. I haven't raced since 2019 but for reference purposes

    5k Pb - June 2019 @ 7:17min/m

    HM Pb - Sept 2019 @ 8:15min/m

    10mile solo TT March 2021 @ 7:41min/m

    My main marathon goal is just to break 4hrs, having run 4:37, 4:26 & 4:25 previously. Realistically this will be pinned down closer to the time, coach is currently a bit preoccupied so it's not something we've discussed. Going on last week's 19m with 15m @ 8:30, then maybe 8:45 might be achievable. I haven't figured out fuelling yet and I have a history of issues with fuelling & sickness issues etc so it's one I need to figure out or it could all come undone.

    Thanks for the questions D, love getting the fuel for thought.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭aquinn


    Deadly as also aiming for 8:45 pace. Super, where are we going and when?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,287 ✭✭✭ariana`


    Wow that would be class Aoife. Fancy a trip to Galway? If that doesn't go ahead I'm willing to travel for another event or even a virtual at this stage.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭aquinn


    Yay, we'll do a tour of Dublin on the 24th? 😁


    Looked at Galway but too soon. Plan would have to be chopped.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Well as you've spotted yourself, doing 15 mile LRs at 8:30 doesn't track with a four hour marathon, which as you know is something like 9:09 pace. Are you confident you are doing these at the right pace? (One of the reasons I asked about the HR on these runs, and how it tracks with marathon effort).

    Post edited by Murph_D on


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,856 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    The old rule of thumb, that you should always finish feeling you could do another one or two, doesn’t seem to apply.

    When you say that @Murph_D, is that specific to marathon training that sessions should feel like you could do another one or two? Or is it a rule of thumb for sessions in general?

    Apologies for the intrusion ariana. If you don't mind me saying - 10 miles @ 7:41 min/m good for you, that's so impressive!



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    That applies to any typical 'speed' session where you are running repeats, HS. The thinking being if you couldn't do another one, it means you've flogged yourself. Speed sessions should be fast, but you should also feel in control and have good form, which tends to go out the window if you're overexerting.

    @ariana` , that 10m TT time is very impressive alright, and suggests that you've come on a lot since those 2019 PBs. Your HM time especially would come down a lot, as most people can run a half at something very close to their 10 mile pace. The marathon is a different beast, though. That same 10-mile time suggests a 3:3x marathon is a reasonable target. While the calculators can be optimistic, you seem to be built for endurance - but that will only remain the case if the training is right, ie you are getting the proper adaptations by running at appropriate effort to build that endurance. The 10m TT suggests, of course, that your M target is quite conservative, and that 15 mile LR at 8:30 - while a tough run - should have felt reasonably 'easy' considering your recent performance history.

    Post edited by Murph_D on


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,287 ✭✭✭ariana`


    Thank you kindly, you are not intruding at all 😊 That 10m TT was one of those rare days when the stars aligned, the weather was good (for running) and I felt strong. I'm proud of it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,287 ✭✭✭ariana`



    The 15m @ 8:30 while I wouldn't call it easy, felt quite comfortable and sustainable, I certainly wasn't hanging at the end of it. I don't believe a 3:3x marathon is possible at the moment. Maybe if my motivation from earlier in the year carried through the Summer months but unfortunately since school closed the doors it's been hit & miss. There is a distinct possibility that Summer marathon training doesn't suit me so well, either that or I am just not motivated enough by the goal, or the Covid blues and lack of real life races for so long has sucked some of the life out of my running mojo. I'm easily distracted by other adventures in the evening times and too lazy to get up to run before work. My kids seem to have suddenly hit this golden age where doing stuff with them presents opportunities for me to challenge and enjoy myself too, gone without warning are the mind numbing hours pushing a swing in the playground and over night replaced by climbing mountains & jumping in lakes. I'm hoping to muddle along and keep doing enough to pull off that sub 4 but it will be with less than ideal preparation and more reliant on an accumulation of training than I imagine many on here would settle for.

    As always thanks for the input D, I appreciate it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Many good points there. It’s good to know that you seem to have the engine for an ambitious one when the time is right. No harm in getting that sub-4 milestone ticked off in the meantime. 😉



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,287 ✭✭✭ariana`


    I'm already falling behind!

    Getting more and more sceptical about the likelihood of GB going ahead 😕

    Week 2 of 10

    Monday: Easy 7m @ 9:41

    Tuesday: Progression intervals 10' @ 7:39, 8 @ 7:31, 6 @ 7:22, 4' @ 7:47 (tractor incident), 2' @ 7:05 / 2' recovery

    Wed: OFF

    Thurs: Easy 6.25 @ 9:23

    Friday: Easy 7 @ 10:19

    Sat: 17m with 4m @ 8:16, 4m @ 8:18, 2m @ 8:11 / .5m recovery

    Sunday: OFF


    Week 3 of 10

    Monday/Tuesday: Unplanned rest 🤮🙄

    Wed: Easy 5.5m @ 9:48

    Thurs: Easy 6.3m @ 9:47

    Fri: Easy 7m @ 9:51

    Sat: 20.2m with 16m @ 8:28

    Sunday: Recovery 2.5m @ 10:00



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,006 ✭✭✭Lambay island


    Yeah, I hear ya on the GB race..due a 20 miler myself this weekend but may end up swerving/reducing it and running a 5k race next week instead for motivation reasons



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,287 ✭✭✭ariana`


    Suddenly there seems to be quite a few 5 &10k events advertised locally. It's been so long since a real race of any description that it's hard not to be tempted.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,287 ✭✭✭ariana`


    The weeks are ticking by, I got my 2nd 20miler done this week. Looked back to compare with previous 20 mile runs and realised I'd never actually done one before 😂 In 2017 I did 19.95m, who stops at 19.95m? Took me a minute to cop that I was working in KMs then and had hit 32k! In 2018 I did 19.5 & 19.65m. Anyways, different times, different plan, different pain... thankfully no pain in 2021 except the mental challenge of getting from about 9m - 12m, managing that feeling that there's still such a long way to go. Once I hit 12m I'm like a new woman, counting down the miles. However, another 6 may break me, time will tell.

    Week 4 of 10

    Monday: 7.25m @ 9:33

    Tues: Session, 6 * 1m @ 8:00, 7:42, 7:48, 7:38, 7:43, 7:39 (target was 7:40-7:50)

    Wed: OFF

    Thurs: 6.3m @ 9:48

    Friday: 5m @ 10:06

    Sat: 20m with 2 * 8m @ 8:14 & 8:10 off 1m recovery.

    Sunday: OFF



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,287 ✭✭✭ariana`


    Week 5 of 10

    Away at the weekend so tried to fit in my running Mon-Fri

    Mon: Session, 3 * 10min @ 7:58, 7:51, 7:48 (target was 7:50-8:00)

    Tues: 7.3m @ 9:57

    Wed: 3m @ 10:12

    Thurs: 20m LR

    Fri: 4.25m @ 10:17

    Sat/Sun: lots of hiking



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,287 ✭✭✭ariana`


    Week 6 of 10

    Mon: Off

    Tues: 6.1m @ 9:51

    Wed: 10' @ 7:52 (target 7:50-8:00), 3 * 6' @ 7:48, 7:43, 7:43 (target 7:40-7:50), 6 * 1' on/off

    Thurs: 7m @ 10:04

    Fri: 6.25m @ 9:51

    Sat: 22m - longest LR of the block, delighted to tick this off and felt good after it, tired but I recovered well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,287 ✭✭✭ariana`


    Week 7 of 10

    Monday: 5m easy with a 6 * 20second strides

    Tuesday: Very easy 7m @ 10:33

    Wed: Nothing

    Thurs: 10miles with 3 * 15mins @ 8:07, 8:05, 8:02 (target 8:00-8:10)

    Friday: 7m very easy @ 10:09

    Saturday: 15m LR with 12m @ 8:31min/m

    Sunday: Nothing



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,287 ✭✭✭ariana`


    Week 8 of 10

    Monday: 11m with 6 * 1m @ 7:54, 7:56, 7:52, 7:56, 7:55, 7:56 (target 7:50-8:00)

    Tues: 7m easy @ 10:13

    Wed: Nothing

    Thurs: 6.6m with 6 *20sec strides

    Fri: Nothing

    Sat: 14m LR with 10min @ 8:17 **

    Sun: 4.5m easy @ 9:43

    **very undisciplined here, this was supposed to 8:30-8:40. This is the type of stuff that you'd expect from a novice 2 weeks out 😕😳



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,621 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    Jazus I was reading that and thinking, great discipline!


    You're very consistent 👏


    TbL



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,287 ✭✭✭ariana`


    Haha why thank you kindly sir. I've had a pretty consistent year. I don't push the boat out too much, I stay fairly safe in my 40 mile / 5 day running weeks but I tend to do them week in week out so hopefully that consistency will pay off and deliver me what I ask of it come Saturday 🙇‍♀️


    Week 9 of 10

    Monday: 6.25m @ 9:37

    Tuesday: 7m @ 9:20

    Wed: 8.5m with 4 * 1m @ 7:48, 7:56, 8:00, 7:51 (target 7:50-8:00) a bit of wind played a factor in these reps especially the 3rd.

    Thurs: OFF

    Fri: 12m with 6m @ 8:37. Struggled a lot on this run. Found it very humid and I just felt very off. Had serious doubts about my ability run a marathon next week after it but I put it behind me. Put it down to a bit of taper madness combined with not sleeping well and a lot going through my head still to organise for the following day's First Holy Communion celebration.

    Sat: OFF

    Sun: 6.3m @ 9:37



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,006 ✭✭✭Lambay island


    Well done on the consitency and that run defo sounds like typical taper feelings. You deserve a good race - best of luck.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭Laineyfrecks


    I agree with above, you have been very consistent and put in a good training block, I wish you all the best for your Marathon☺️



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭aquinn


    You have trained fantastically well and wishing you all the very best at the weekend. You have been so consistent and strong, well done.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,693 ✭✭✭Mr. Guappa


    The very best of luck on Saturday E. You have trained so consistently for a long time now and hopefully all goes to plan on the day and you are rewarded with the race your training deserves. Well done and good luck!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,287 ✭✭✭ariana`


    Thanks everyone, it feels a bit surreal. It's certainly very different to the build up to DCM where everyone and their granny seem to be talking about it for the week, or more, beforehand. I'm excited just to be on a start line, it's a long time since Sept 2019.



  • Registered Users Posts: 646 ✭✭✭marathon2022


    Good luck on the Marathon, your training looks spot on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    Best of luck E.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭Unknownability


    Best of luck, hope all goes well.



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