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Australian Response

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    There are two camps on this question on this thread TBH, those bigging up the Australian approach and knocking ours and vice versa. Clearly neither agrees with the opposite strategy. Both have made mistakes but we have learnt to live with it and are now at over 70% fully vaccinated. Australia still has to figure out how to extricate itself from Zero COVID, drive towards mass vaccination and return to full normality. Headline number comparisons are pointless especially with the potential pool here shrinking very fast, as against a massive chunk of the population at risk.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 970 ✭✭✭bob mcbob


    Australia can’t afford to abandon its zero Covid strategy until 80% of the population is vaccinated, the Grattan Institute has warned, predicting that could take until March if children are not included in the rollout.

    Currently there are only 2 countries in the world that have reached 80% full vaccination rates - Gibraltar and Malta. In fact no other country has reached 80% for a single jab. Iceland is next best with 78.5% population having had one jab. If this is the target for re-opening of Australia then I think it will be very difficult to achieve.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,260 ✭✭✭TomSweeney


    Australia will never reopen.


    NEVER.


    Unless this cult of zero covid is beaten, it will never be safe enough, they want 0.0000000% risk - which is impossible.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,625 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    Ireland has essentially everything open, Sydney is locked down. Saying NSW is doing a more effective job at suppressing cases is a nonsense comparison, Ireland isn't trying to because enough of their population is vaccinated and it doesn't need to.

    Ireland did not have 9 deaths on 28th July. It's 9 deaths for the month of July in total, they just reported the number yesterday.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Who cares. Maybe it happens when aussies start thinking about going out but at this moment it is lunatics' running the asylum there.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,145 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Wow, great way to seriously miss the point. Did I suggest relaxing restrictions to sportsmen? Obviously they can't to do that because of the tens of thousands of citizens who are STILL stuck overseas won't be happy. All the people stuck inside the country and unable to see loved ones won't be happy.


    My point was, Australia is set on a path that is isolating them from the world. I mentioned sports because the ashes, Australian open, GP etc are world renowned events. Soon they won't have those anymore. They will fall off the world map and there's no going back now. Even worse, if you're anything to go by, Australians just don't care.

    Post edited by ceadaoin. on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,414 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Sadly, Sydney is where we were back in March/April last year but with just a little bit of vaccination as an advantage yet a more transmissible disease as a disadvantage.

    I don't see a way out of it for them other than "live with it", ie: almost ripping through the population, or stay locked down for months and months until slow vaccine supply catches up. It's not going to be easy for them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,467 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    This.

    If you want to attack the Australian strategy, vaccination is the weak point. Infection control measures control measures have been extremely effective, with much lower infection and death rates, much less social restriction and much lower economic cost than other countries. But vaccination efforts have been appalling.

    It will take longer, but it's still possible for Australia to catch up to other countries' vaccination rates. And my estimation is that, when they do, they'll still have suffered less illness, less deaths, less restrictions and less cost overall than other countries- but more than they needed to, if they could have got their vaccination efforts in hand properly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,145 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Vaccines don't stop transmission though. People get infected and pass it on after vaccination. You will still have cases, hospitalisations and deaths even with a high percentage of vaccination in the population. Immunity after infection however is much better at stopping reinfection.


    https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,467 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Vaccines greatly reduce transmission, though, just as they greatly reduce infection. So the more vaccination you have, the less covid you have. So it makes sense to maintain restrictions designed to reduce the spread of covid until you have acheived widespread vaccination.

    It may be true that naturally-induced immunity is more powerful than vaccine-induced immunity — I haven't seen the figures on this — but the problem here would be that, if you're relying on naturally-induced immunity then nobody is immune until they've been infected, and they are all infected at a time when they have no immunity at all, so the attrition rate will be extremely high. The UK, for instance, suffered 130,00 deaths even though they adopted various measures to control infection; if their strategy had been to allow infection in order to promote immunity they would have suffered many more.

    So, even if natural immunity is stronger than vaccine-induced immunity, the death toll you will incur in building up natural immunity will likely vastly exceed the reduction in deaths attributable to the edge that natural immunity has over vaccine-induced immunity.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 762 ✭✭✭gral6


    Australia has deployed hundreds of soldiers to Sydney to help enforce a Covid lockdown.

    Sydney looks like big open air concentration camp.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,192 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Yes, and with a much more transmissible disease variant and very little pre-existing immunity.

    They're in a crap position, and most of that is because of the poor vaccination campaign. Public health did their bit.

    Those Romanian doses we are supposedly getting would be better used in Sydney.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 553 ✭✭✭The HorsesMouth


    Death rate yes.

    But at what expense to the economy in the long term? Australia won't open up for a number of years it seems. They are so far away from the ideology of the EU, US for eg that I cannot see them accepting any case of covid in their county for a long time even with a certain rate of vaccination. And so the threat of lockdown will continue to hang over them for the forseeable. Whereas over here that threat is vanishing quite quickly and the number of cases means nothing anymore.

    And that's all fine if your an inward looking country with no links to the global economy but thats not Australia. I just fear for them in the medium to long term and I think the costs will start to catch up as time goes on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,930 ✭✭✭ongarite


    Australian government outline their exit strategy.

    80% of eligible population vaccinated for end of restrictions and opening of international borders.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-30/national-cabinet-update-covid19-support-vaccine-targets/100338334



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 762 ✭✭✭gral6


    At least they say they'll be living with the virus. Zero Covid strategy shattered



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,710 ✭✭✭wassie


    Your posts are offensive with your comparisons



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,179 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    I hope I’m wrong but I don’t think they will end the Sydney lockdown until they get to zero



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,260 ✭✭✭TomSweeney


    We've heard this nonsense before and they change the goalposts as soon as we approach that number



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 762 ✭✭✭gral6


    Australia's third-largest city of Brisbane and other parts of Queensland state will enter a snap Covid-19 lockdown from today as authorities race to contain an emerging outbreak of the Delta strain.


    More troops to be deployed so no one is in, no one is out? The envy of the world.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so



    TBH it's a pity to see it unwinding and it's not something to gloat over. We know what this is like and you would have thought we'd show a bit more empathy.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 762 ✭✭✭gral6


    It is a shame but they did not have to push for Zero Covid. Now, they are in the mud hole because of that with no lights at the end of the tunnel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    It was their choice, made easier by their location but no country really backpedalled on an initial approach except the UK and that was a disaster anyway. There is no going back and from an Australian perspective it was fine until they got a very a fast spreading Delta in conjunction with very low levels of vaccination.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,586 ✭✭✭JTMan


    Funny video on the Australian Covid situation ...

    https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1421358868446294019



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,710 ✭✭✭wassie


    That video was gold. Always liked that Aussies (& Kiwis) can be as self-deprecating as the Irish....

    ABC article contrasting Australia's containment strategy with the Chinese version: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-30/how-china-tackles-delta-fuelled-coronavirus-outbreak-in-nanjing/100323692



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 762 ✭✭✭gral6


    Video is awful. Either die from Covid or suffer from long Covid. Nothing else.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,145 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Gibraltar and Malta are both having a surge in cases despite their high vaccination rates.


    Vaccination isn't the way out for Australia. They either stay shut off for years, and live with the constant threat of snap lockdowns, or accept that covid is here and can't be avoided.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Cases that do not lead to hospitalisations and put pressure on health systems are just a cold. We're now finally looking past the headlines to our quite low hospital numbers but there is continued alarm about headline daily case figures.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 723 ✭✭✭PhilipsR


    What the hell does this even mean? Both yourself and gral are spouting absolute crap on this which isn't even truthful for the most part.

    Why isn't it simple for you both to grasp? Australia had two strategies. The FIRST one was containment when there was no vaccine approved or authorised. Zero Covid has not been the plan since. Clearly, as they keep saying, they need to get a large proportion of the country vaccinated before they can open the borders.



    I'm really curious as to what plan you think would be better? please indulge me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,145 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    What do you mean, "what the hell does this even mean" lol? Can't you read?

    I guess you aren't keeping up with recent developments in the outside world...Vaccines don't stop transmission. It's not that hard to understand. Prior infection confers pretty good actual immunity to reinfection. Vaccine efficacy is especially weak in older and immune compromised people, the very people who are vulnerable to severe infections and death due to covid.


    Good luck 👍



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