And you don't see that there is no end to this, a never ending cycle, but hey seems most Aussies are happy with the situation, so fair enough...
The travel thing has been tough at times, but have people in any other countries been able to come and go as they please? How were people in Ireland able to travel when they couldn't go further than 5km from their home?
What makes you say there's no end to it? If widespread vaccination has the outcomes that we all hope, then there'll be an end to it when Australian vaccination is sufficiently widespread. We may come to that later than other countries, but at significantly lower cost in terms of lives lost, restrictions suffered and economic costs.
If, on the other hand, widespread vaccination doesn't have the outcomes that we all hope, then Australia has a problem. But in that scenario other countries have much, much bigger problems, and you should probably be more worried about them.
Australia have an excellent tracing system which combined with strictly policing and willingness from the public, has meant that lockdowns up to now have been effective.
I'm a bit doubtful about the lockdowns remaining effective in the face of the higher Delta transmissibility and increasing lockdown-fatigue from the public .
Dedicated centers for all foreign arrivals? Thanks God, I haven't moved to Australia.
I can't say I have disdain for the situation, just curiousity when considering Australia's approach in comparison to the rest of the world. I don't have anything to do with Australia, so it doesn't actually bother me in the slightest. As the last poster said, there's been much less restriction there than we have experienced here, but the flip side of it is that while we MAY be coming out of it now and vaccine rates are high, Australia is not. Zero Covid has been discussed ad nauseum here - no point in going for it at this stage here obviously - and I just wonder (objectively) how Australia will get itself out of this. Much like ourselves, we backed ourselves into a corner with all the lockdowns, and it has proven tricky enough to get out of that corner. It doesn't seem like Australia has a plan to get out of its current situation either (correct me if I am wrong?) and I wonder how long that is sustainable for, if the rest of the world is getting back to normal around it. It seems to all rely on the vaccine programme picking up speed drastically and that doesn't seem to be happening at the rate it is here?
As I said, it is simply curiousity and consideration of the different approaches of different countries on my part, particularly given that we had a period in March where Zero covid was lauded by some as the way we should be going here. At this point, I don't actually think that one way is better than another.
Ok I see your point however the only way out of this is and getting back to normal is either vaccination or herd immunity (although no-one with any brains would currently advocate that).
However firstly as Australia's Covid experience has not been too bad, how to you convince a significant enough number of the population to get vaccinated. Currently only 70% of (18-29 age group) have been vaccinated in Scotland even with all the sh*t that has happened here in the last 15 months. I fear that the vaccination rates in Australia may never be adequate because as you said things have not been that bad there.
Second I am struggling to see how Australia gets from a very successful zero Covid strategy (with very few cases, hospitalisations and deaths) to a successful "back to normal" position which will mean the virus circulates widely. This probably means thousands of cases, hospitalisations and maybe hundreds of deaths. This will be the case even with a highly successful vaccination strategy.
In Europe, as I said, the disruption and deaths mean that there is some acceptance by the populace of what is involved in getting back to normal. Do you think on the back of a "not too bad" Covid experience that Australia's populace will be willing to accept what it is likely to mean.
I am not denigrating Australia's strategy - all in all I would rather have lived in Oz for the last 15 months than here. I am just not sure this would be the case in a couples of months time (Scotland's climate excepted).
Currently in Ireland you can travel abroad without a vaccine, go countries all over Europe and dine indoors, sometimes with no mask requirements, but then return to Ireland and not be able to eat indoors.
This thread is gas, all those commenting on how messed up & dictatorial Australia is.
They just passed the one million doses in a week mark thanks to big boost in Pfizer supply arriving - not exactly slow now. Australia is not in lockdown, parts of it are. Just ask folk in Western Australia how life is at the moment even though it is the of middle winter there.
As the country battles cases in the 100s, contrast this with one of their closest neighbors, Indonesia, which is currently grappling with the worst coronavirus outbreak in Asia. Over 30,000 cases reported yday alone.
All the while we are still squabbling over reopening indoor dining...
I thought it was quite a reasonable discussion/debate myself....
If you were prepared to get PCR tested multiple times and potentially do a two week self isolation in a hotel on your return at your own expense then travelling was probably possible at any point but most people just didn't bother, it's getting a lot easier now though, as long as your vaccinated. I think the Aussies will be fine and when this is over they'll still have had an easier ride than parts of europe. Just really need to start jabbing more people because lockdowns won't cut it I don't think.
Judging by how miserable your posts are, I'd say they're devastated.
Posters will see what they want to! Some are even prone to the giggles for no apparent reason!
No, they are where they used to be before. In the prison cells.
Yea the Pasifika community seem to be very anti vax.
Curious, where did you get the vaccine?
Australia still in lockdowns. Crazy stuff.
I got it at a Marae where they run a Health Clinic in Porirua of all places!
wow haha thats interesting
I really wonder how long they'll keep the lockdown going for. We're at the stage now that anyone over 40 can book their vaccination (it will take much longer since the outbreak). The vulnerable and frontline workers have all had the opportunity to get vaccinated, so you'd have to assume that anyone still unvaccinated in these groups is that way by choice.
Well if theyre up to a million vaccinations a week, people must be getting them.
I'm in Brisbane, no lockdown here!
The main reason vaccination has proceeded slowly is constraints on supply. Through a combination of bad luck and bad judgement the federal government has really stuffed up vaccine procurement so, even if everyone was clamouring to be vaccinated, they couldn't be.
Politically, this has been survivable because there has been low demand for vaccination up to now for the reason you point out; there's no covid in the community, so people aren't at risk of infection, so they don't feel they need immediate vaccination. Plus, the community hasn't been subject to rules and restraints that people see vaccination as the escape from; there was no feeling that vaccination was the key to normality because things were already pretty normal. And it has to be said that the government took advantage of these attitudes and even encouraged them, since that meant they didn't suffer political heat for the failure to procure enough vaccine.
Obviously, that changes around now. Demand for vaccination has gone up sharply, and state governments are strongly promoting vaccination. The arrival of the delta virus and the fresh spate of lockdowns has changed attitudes.
What hasn't changed is broad support for the zero covid strategy and the measures needed to maintain it. There is still negligible public demand for the opening up of international travel or the end of local lockdowns, etc, in advance of widespread vaccination.
I think you're correct that, when vaccination is widespread, then there will be an expectation that those measures can be relaxed, and relaxing them will lead to an increase in infections, hospitalisations and deaths. But if vaccination is as effective as is hoped, this should be on a manageable scale and people will accept it because, really, what's the alternative? You mention thousands of cases and maybe hundreds of deaths, but of course we have already experienced thousands of cases and hundreds of deaths; if we get to a point where we can relax containment measures and still not experience anything worse than we have already experienced, I think most people will chalk that up as a win.
Well I for one am very happy to be in the “prison” you speak.
Strolled over to the gym across the road, no mask. Gym session done and stopped in the barber shop on the way back to the house then sat down in the local coffee shop for a biltong toastie and a coffee. No masks, no hysteria. Just a QR code to scan on your way in the door.
But you keep telling yourself Ireland is better off after 4 months of lockdown chief
So, literally saying, you still can enjoy some amenities while being confined in your cell?
Hope, people in Sydney can do it too. Probably they can share your excitement.
I got Pfizer back in April before they opened it to the general population, my inlaws got their AZ in mid May and technically not due 2nd until mid August but they might get it earlier now they have relaxed the 12 weeks. There's something like 5m AZ sitting on a shelf most of which are going to go as 2nd doses but there's still a lot of older people are holding out for Pfizer and Moderna. They were only getting 300K of Pfizer a week but that's going 1m a week plus all the outstanding AZ on top of that. Moderna is supposed to be end of August I think.
The original Pfizer was only supposed to be 4m and that was supposed to do phase 1a and 1b, they were relying on AZ as the backbone because it was easier to transport especially to regional areas and manufacture locally. At the time no one could see the problems AZ vaccine would cause, there have been 5 deaths by covid this year and 3 deaths by vaccines so eligible people are hesitant. On the upside Pfizer and Moderna are 3 weeks between doses so even if they arrive later they catch up the 2nd does quicker. The government should have been more greedy at the start and covered their bets, I think at the time RNA vaccines were viewed as more of a risk where AZ was more traditional and expected to win the race. It was gamble that didnt pay off.
Australia is 41K per 100,000 but still a very low number of fully vaccinated they didn't really start ramping up AZ until mid April and 2nd doses are only really due around now. Most appointments for Pfizer are booked out until September in NSW at this stage, but TAS and ACT have like 45% first dose and 20% of fully vaccinated and NT has 25% fully vaccinated.
The other thing is they did 180k test yesterday and 171k today insane testing, good job they had bought all those analyzers years ago.
Yeah Zero covid right on...
Not possible to achieve anyway no matter how many snap or permanent lockdowns you introduce. It only look safe to stay behind curtains, then you have to deal with this...
Natural immunity all the way. That is how our bodies are designed to function.
Designed to function, when viruses like Polio and Smallpox killed hundreds of millions of people.
World did not shut down because of these viruses though
They didn't have the ability to shut down either, now we do, more or less.
Not sure what point you're trying to make here.
There were numerous epidemics in the 20th century. In 1952 , the worst one in the US, of the 57,628 cases reported that year, 3,145 died and 21,269 were left with mild to disabling paralysis.
The global death toll from smallpox during the 20th century is estimated to have been around 300 million by some experts.
We've had vaccines for polio since the 1930s and for smallpox for 200 years.