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Covid vaccines safety

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Comments



  • Lol. Weird you're going back that far in the thread yet you are still ignoring dozens of questions.

    However patnors hypocritical and dishonest whinging is completely false.

    For example in that post be is complaining that he never said one thing. I then provided him a direct quote of where he said that thing. Since then her has essentially plugged his ears and will not respond to my posts.


    You are doing the same, yet you also thing this helps your position rather than make you look cowardly and dishonest.

    If you guys dot want to be misunderstood the best way to do this is not ignore points and questions. Don't be vague and make insinuations rather than direct and honest about your claims.and importantly try not to lie about things and then try to weasel out of those lies when caught out.


    For example both of you guys have claimed that the VAERS and EU data show the vaccine has caused many deaths. Both of you ignored and left out the disclaimers on those sites that warn that conclusions like yours cannot be made with that data. And you both have ignored when these disclaimers have been pointed out.

    Either





  • I think you've demonstrated pretty clearly in your last several posts that you are either not capable, or not willing, to have a point by point discussion, where you either demonstrate where the other person is wrong, or you concede that you were wrong.

    I have shown you pretty clearly why the Pfizer vaccine reduced symptomatic Covid by 95% (that means that 95% of the people who would be expected to show Covid symptoms didn't show symptoms), with a similar reduction in cases of 'severe Covid'.

    After having all this explained to you, and with the links to the relevant report in my first response to you, you are still arguing about whether it's "Is it contracting virus? Becoming symptomatic?". Can you not understand what it means that 'Symptomatic Covid' was reduced by 95% in the vaccinated group, vs the placebo group? or that only 9 people got Covid symptoms in the vaccinated group, vs 162 in the placebo group? (btw, here is the link to the report again https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7745181/)

    You then deflect to an Israeli report on the effectiveness of the vaccine against the delta variant, which says ...

    Vaccine effectiveness in preventing both infection and symptomatic disease fell to 64% since June 6, 
    the Health Ministry said. At the same time the vaccine was 93% effective in preventing hospitalizations
    and serious illness from the coronavirus.
    

    How does that refute anything about the original Pfizer trial, and doesn't it demonstrate continued 93% effectiveness against delta?

    Oh forgot to cater for "Link?" people who cant figure out how google works.

    Also, what you you mean by "people who can't figure out how google works"? Would you prefer those who make unsubstantiated statements should go unchallenged, and be allowed to dump any nonsense and just say 'google it' and run away?

    I am in no rush since current vaccines only marginally improve chance of reducing severity of a generally very mild disease.

    The quote on the prev line is the post from you that I originally responded to, and it was followed by a dump of information from a Lancet report that you completely misinterpreted (or perhaps you were simply repeating a misinterpretation you read on some other website spreading misinformation)

    I would challenge you to either substantiate your views, or else refrain from spreading unsubstantiated misinformation. Also, if you attempt to substantiate your information have the good grace to admit you are wrong when it's explained to you, multiple times, in clear terms, where you are wrong!





  • You seems to be somehow fixated on pfizer trial. It is only one of the few vaccines currently used. I suggest that you open your eyes and see that what is happening now is actually very different than initial trial data. And on a way to become even more different as vaccines are just a mutation or two away from becoming obsolete.

    Besides with so many cases reported all the while real numbers were few times higher we are very close to herd immunity if not already there.





  • Again claims with no source or backing from a conspiracy theorist who has been caught out in dozens of lies and is constantly dishonest and evasive.

    This post is yet another deflection because you don't want to concede a point despite Pintofview directly and comprehensively debunking your previous false claims.





  • Minnesota woman has both her legs AMPUTATED after contracting COVID-19 days after receiving vaccine | Daily Mail Online


    what do you guys think? is this aside effect of the vaccine or is it just coincidence?



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  • Some people will have an adverse reaction to vaccines, people have died from polio, Measles, rubella, mumps and even flu vaccines. So yes...its a sad coincidence.





  • Well, the vaccine does not offer full protection from COVID, untill at least two weeks after second dose, so contracting COVID "days after" the second dose does not contradict anything the Goverment/Medical experts/vaccine manufacturer state. And given it can take up to two weeks to get COVID after infection, she most likley had been infected BEFORE the second dose.

    Blood clots is one of the side effects of the COVID disease and the vaccine, but more common with the disease. One might make the case to do a COVID test as one is getting vaccinated, but that would slow down the whole vaccination processs, and this might do more harm than good.





  • The Daily Mail is a sensationalist rag.

    What they don't say is what GerardKeating just explained.

    What do you think?





  • first off i commend the daily mail on telling the woman's story. you can be sure there are many more cases around the world that have not been shared through mainstream media. which i find truely disturbing.

    I don't fully agree with GerarKeatings post above, many people are defending the vaccine process irrespective of the consequences for people such as the woman in said article. the exact cause of the womans condition is inconclusive but its clear the vaccine played a detrimental role.



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  • How is it clear?

    "Medical experts are unsure whether the vaccine caused her complications"





  • You have shown yet again that you are not capable of a point by point discussion, so I'm not going to spend any more time flogging this dead horse





  • Unfortunately COVID causes serious systemic clotting issues and very dramatic and deadly problems in some people, which is far more likely to explain her unfortunate situation.

    That’s why we’re vaccinating and that’s why we’re taking so much precaution. It’s a horrible illness when it goes very badly wrong for some people and it has killed & maimed.

    The vaccine would have little or no effect for about 14 days, in terms of providing some immunity and 7 to 14 days after the second dose of two dose vaccines for full effect. They’ve also been given to hundreds of millions of people and they are being monitored with reporting of effects.

    This isn’t a normal case.

    The other issue is that some people just have bad run ins with septicaemia and so on in the oddest circumstances. I’m aware of a case of someone who got a minor cut while gardening, developed septicaemia and lost a limb.

    People can get freaky reactions to viruses, bacteria, minor infections and even food, to cosmetics, plants, etc

    Horrible and weird things like that happen in exceedingly rare circumstances.

    If you were to freak out about them, you’d never do anything again.

    I mean the reality is you could be cutting your toe nails and acquire some horrible dose of a bacterial infection. It’s extremely unlikely, but when you take a population of 7.9 billion people, many of whom are on or are in reach of social media or tabloids, you’ll find a case!

    I mean people probably died in the last few days having choked on spaghetti or having terrible reactions to minor allergens, but life goes on and we don’t have people protesting, demanding a ban on spaghetti.

    Post edited by Convolved on

    (Account closed by user)





  • Remember also thaat conspiracy theorists have been telling us that the 4.2 million people killed by covid (and who know how many permanently injured) isn't anything to be concerned about.

    But *one* case where the vaccine *Might* be involved? Obviously it's apocalyptic.





  • Exactly, so many scary things can happen and are happening around us daily one would have to wonder why there is so much fuss about a some mediocre infection with over 99% survival rate...





  • You've been asked repeatedly what the real reason it. You refuse to give a straight answer either because you don't have one or your answer is a ridicilous conspiracy theory.


    Again, you've been caught out in lie after lie. You are running away from every point and you're going to start cowering away from Convolved's points now as well as they are too difficult for you to address honestly.


    So no, we don't have to wonder. We know that you are just wrong when you're claiming it's not worth all the fuss.





  • It's your subjective personal opinion that an avoidable infectious disease which has killed 4 million people in 15 months is just a "minor thing". Every single country in the world has decided to take it seriously.

    So either you have a stupid uninformed opinion, or every government in the world does.





  • What makes you willing to sacrifice 49,000 Irish people so casually (possibly higher, but let's use your estimate)? Have you any concern at all for those that would die if we followed your advice?





  • MostAll people I know were concerned about their parents or elderly relatives but according to basically every Covid denier and conspiracy theorist on this forum, "It's just some old people that were going to die anyway"

    Edit: and as if to underscore this notion, came across the following article

    https://www.sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2021/07/30/what-psychology-says-about-covid-non-compliers.html



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  • And yet if even one old person dies because of the vaccine...





  • There are many people in their 50's, 60's and 70's who have had cancer, but are free of it for several years, and are now enjoying a good quality of life. These are just some of the people covid deniers appear to be happy to just let die, along with many other vulnerable people that are living with medical conditions but are able to lead happy and productive lives thanks to modern medicine.

    The web sites that the covid deniers get their 'information' from would be amusing if it wasn't so shocking that a percentage of gullible people actually believe them. As the article you linked to says ...

    Non-compliers appear not to use official sources for COVID-19 information, nor do they tend to verify the legitimacy of information

    That's one of the key problems, that they don't verify the legitimacy of what they read, or think for themselves. So they're at the mercy of people who have misinterpreted reality, or people who are deliberately distorting or sensationalising reality to get clicks and subscriptions.





  • Well then. The whole "Not FDA approved" arguement in the bin. What will the loons do now?

    FDA aiming to give final approval to Pfizer vaccine by early next month -NY Times

    https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/fda-aiming-give-final-approval-pfizer-vaccine-by-early-next-month-ny-times-2021-08-03/





  • I think the next step is a "forensic" approval carried out by some sort of ninja squad.





  • Interesting to see if the "but but its an experimental vaccine not approved by the FDA" lot will take it now.





  • Well now the FDA is part of the conspiracy.

    Previously the vaccines couldn't get FDA approve because... um... reasons?





  • Youtube will be removing any vaccine misinformation videos:

    YouTube to remove misinformation videos about all vaccines (breakingnews.ie)

    Good to see this being stamped out following reddit's policy to remove it as well.









  • United Airlines requires staff to be vaccinated or face being fired. Out of 67,000 staff, around 600 are refusing. People are literally going to lose their jobs because of their beliefs.



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  • People can get exemptions as well because of their beliefs, United are not letting those people go. One set of beliefs are fine (religious) others are not (body autonomy). The second being more relevant in my opinion. The fact that they are going to fire people that have a concern over the vaccine but keep on people that can't take it due to a belief in an imaginary being is a bit ridiculous, no?



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