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Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,972 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    I work in a hospital, loads of departments were open. Non essential OPD appointments only were cancelled. A&E was not crowded at all, in fact it was never as quiet as people were avoiding it for fear of getting COVID. You obviously don't know what you're talking about.



  • Registered Users Posts: 468 ✭✭Shao Kahn


    He might be a comedian, but he makes some interesting points here.

    About vaccines in particular. Why would they create a vaccine to harm people, when they would be taking out the wrong group of people? The good little boys and girls, who do what they're told. He's right, it wouldn't really make much sense to take out these people.


    "Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives, and it puts itself into our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." (John Wayne)



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Why are you linkin to some random news site and not the study itself?


    Usually when this happens it's because the study doesn't actually say what the headline says it does.


    Also, again this has nothing to do with vaccine safety. Conspiracy theorists are trying to deflect from the topic because they know their conspiracy claims have failed completely.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Some people still want to believe the original oxford model which predicted millions of dead people within few months so in their eyes lockdowns saved human race from extinction. Some people repeated this so many times no wonder they started to believe it. Despite clear evidence that they did have zero effect on covid.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,764 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    You are just moving the goalposts in an attempt to salvage something from all your earlier faulty opinions on Covid and vaccines which are all neatly preserved in text on this forum



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,764 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    Research showing the appeal between conspiratorial thinking and right-wing media. Unsurprising.

    "New research suggests that conservative media in the United States is particularly appealing to people who are prone to conspiratorial thinking. The use of conservative media, in turn, is associated with increasing belief in COVID-19 conspiracies and reduced willingness to engage in behaviors to prevent the spread of the virus. The findings appear in the journal Social Science & Medicine.

    “We have been studying the proliferation of conspiracies regarding the COVID-19 pandemic since it began early in 2020,” explained study author Dan Romer, the research director of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania.

    “We have found that belief in conspiracies about the pandemic is related to lower levels of social distancing and personal hygiene behaviors recommended by the CDC, as well as mask wearing, and intentions to vaccinate. Given the importance of these behaviors to ending the pandemic, we are interested in understanding the factors that encourage these conspiracies.”

    Direct link to the study here

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0277953621008121



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,456 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    You've tried this revisionism before.

    The oxford model was predicated on no lockdown and restrictions.

    Those things happened so deaths were greatly reduced as predicted by the modelling.

    To say otherwise is a ridiculous notion.

    Even with restrictions and lockdowns, there has been nearly 5 million deaths worldwide.



  • Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    Carlson is completely biased, and it doesn't sound like his guest is very credible either. See https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/04/pandemics-wrongest-man/618475/

    I'm sorry to say but it's not surprising that you can't understand stuff if that's where you get your news!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Thankfully we do have data which show that what you are talking is complete BS. Many countries where there were no lockdowns, very little to no restrictions and most of them in countries with barely functioning health system. They fared just fine.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Back on topic, it seems Sweden and Denmark still firmly in antivaxx conspiracy cabal as they just extended pause on moderna on under 18 with recommendation that people under 30 should seek alternative.

    *edit - according to reuters it is under 30 for sweden and under 18 for denmark.

    Post edited by patnor1011 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,764 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    How does the virus spread? and what facilitates a faster spread of the virus?

    These questions have been asked before here and it's been discovered that people don't understand simple facts like this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Simple facts for you. Many if not most of the countries with repeated lockdowns and strict mandates had higher caseload and mortality than poor countries which could not afford lockdown and restrictions. Somehow that flawed oxford model fatalities (which you still cling to talking that lockdowns saved us from what it predicted) failed to materialize in countries with zero or very few restrictions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,764 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Note how you ignored the questions.

    Certain regions like Africa and the Middle East did not experience Covid on the same level as places like Europe and the US. This is why

    No one is mentioning Oxford except for you. The virus is airborne, it spreads with close proximity, that means if you pack people densely together in e.g. nightclubs, pubs, etc, it's more likely to spread. Children can understand this concept, you clearly don't.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,764 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    Looking at threadbans on Covid threads on other forums, it's like a who's who of posters here. Is there a conspiracy related to the subject? or is this just another sluice for mealy-mouthed anti-vax, anti-Covid denialism.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer




  • Registered Users Posts: 12,437 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Thats called a quote mine. Its when people just skim read (or in this case yet another link dump and run) an article that suits their agenda.

    In reality, the study actually said

    "lockdown orders early in the pandemic may not provide significantly more benefits to slowing the spread of the disease than other voluntary measures, such as social distancing or travel reduction."

    This is also an article from 10 months ago and in addition, the researchers also acknowledged that the study had limitations, and noted that "cross-country comparisons are difficult".

    Heres a link to the article, which you obviously havent even read. Its mainly written by Jay Bhattacharya, who is a lockdown skeptic but also very pro vaccine.

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/eci.13484



  • Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    "Many if not most of the countries with repeated lockdowns and strict mandates had higher caseload and mortality than poor countries which could not afford lockdown and restrictions."

    That's an easy statement to make, and could be false. Can you give some examples? or a link to where you get this information?



  • Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    "Many if not most of the countries with repeated lockdowns and strict mandates had higher caseload and mortality than poor countries which could not afford lockdown and restrictions."

    Can I take it from your silence that you have not been able to find any justification for what you wrote?

    Do you think it's ok to casually spread falsehoods and misinformation? Have you considered your impact on other gullible people, who just read this stuff and may imagine what you wrote was true?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    LOL seriously. Take Ireland, one of the longest lockdowns along with restrictions some of which still apply even after nearly 2 years and among the world leaders in cases and hospitalizations. And since nearly everyone who died is counted as covid death we are amongst leaders even in this field.

    Show me where is the falsehood and misinformation. Prove it to me that I am not right. The only gullible people impacted by what I wrote are those who succumbed to covid end of the world propaganda.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,491 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    World leader? Ireland has 71st highest mortality rates in the world, hardly high. On the other hand Ireland is within the top 40 countries with the greatesst numbers of elderly people so in that regard we've done well considering that disadvantage. Only about 2-3% of Africa's population are over 65 compared with almost 20% of European countries so I don't know why you'd expect deaths there to be anything like Europe considering 90% of deaths are int hat age group, not only that but massively smaller numbers of people in late middle age as well who had reasonably high hospitalisation rates.



  • Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    You said

    "Many if not most of the countries with repeated lockdowns and strict mandates had higher caseload and mortality than poor countries which could not afford lockdown and restrictions."

    When asked for details, or examples, your response is simply LOL, and you ask me to prove you're not right !!! Surely even you can see that's disingenuous? If that's the standard of discussion you want then anyone can make any statement, however ridiculous, and just challenge others to prove them wrong! If you want to be taken seriously you need to justify statements you make, and so far you don't seem to be able to.

    "LOL seriously. Take Ireland, one of the longest lockdowns along with restrictions some of which still apply even after nearly 2 years and among the world leaders in cases and hospitalizations. And since nearly everyone who died is counted as covid death we are amongst leaders even in this field.

    Show me where is the falsehood and misinformation. Prove it to me that I am not right. The only gullible people impacted by what I wrote are those who succumbed to covid end of the world propaganda."

    When asked for examples you can't give any, and fall back on claiming Ireland is a world leader in cases and hospitalisations. Again, I challenge you to say how you conclude this? Is it just a feeling you have, or have you done any research to find out?

    As Ireland is nowhere near the top of the leader board, either in terms of cases, or deaths, or excess deaths, it shows you haven't looked at any of the facts! If you want to educate yourself then Google will give you plenty of information. One such web site is https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-estimates?fsrc=core-app-economist, and from there you will see that Ireland is way down the list, with an official Covid death toll of 110 / 100k population, vs many countries with official Covid deaths above 200/100k (incl USA, UK, and even Peru, with 600/100k). When excess deaths are measured Ireland does even better, with a high estimate of 58/100k, vs UK(200/100k), USA(310/100k), Brazil(340/100k), Mexico(470/100k), Russia(600/100k), Poland(360/100k), Serbia(610/100k), etc.

    So it looks like you have been proven to be completely wrong. I can only conclude that you either don't care about the facts, or you've been so indoctrinated by conspiracy sites that you simply believe, like a religion, and don't really understand it yourself! It would be ok to say you don't understand the numbers, what is not ok is making statements that are false, simply because you are repeating falsehoods you read elsewhere.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Leaving aside that pintofview has demolished the claims in your post, what does it have to do with vaccine safety?


    Have you given up your claims that the vaccines that aren't vaccines are more dangerous than other medical measures?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Do you deny that we are currently among world leaders with number of cases and hospitalizations? All that despite one of the longest lockdowns, restrictions and curiously also one of the highest vaccination rates?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    No, I did not say "world leader" but I have said "among the" and "one of the".

    You can pat yourself on a back about how good we fare, truth is that our "cases" obsession caused misery to untold scores of people who had medical appointments cancelled again.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,060 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Show your evidence for the argument that Ireland is among world leading countries in terms of the case numbers etc.

    You've been shown the numbers for why that isn't the case. Show why you think those numbers are wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Lol so not only are you dodging the points in his post you are again returning to you tactic of denying you said what you said.


    In a few posts I'm betting you will be saying that you never said anything about Ireland being a world leader in anything.

    And you'll be pretending that pintofview is on ignore too so you can hide from his points.



  • Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    Ok, to be fair to you according to the "Our World in Data" site we are near the top as regards cases (for Nov we are 20th in number of cases out of 206 countries tracked). However to put some context on this ...

    • So far in Nov we rank 20 out of 206 countries, with approx 8,000 cases / million in prev two weeks (the top 4 countries each had over 17,000 cases / million)
    • In October we ranked 32/206 countries for cases. In Sept we ranked 33/206. In June we were 69/206. So the trend is clear, that our cases are going up. I'm not an expert on this but clearly as we opened up since early summer we can't be surprised that cases have increased. The same pattern is seen in the UK, but neither here, nor in the UK, do we see exponential growth, and it's likely that unvaccinated individuals account for a chunk of the increase that is happening (and likely that the vaccines are preventing the exponential growth that necessitated our previous lockdowns).
    • For the past 6 months we ranked between 22-26 of 139 countries for tests performed per thousand of the population. As we are in the top 18% of countries for testing it's likely we find more cases than countries that test less! So our case ranking above is possibly (much!) better in reality.
    • Out of 33 countries that provided data on hospitalisations/million we were consistently near the bottom with much less people in hospital due to covid that most other countries. Since Aug we've edged up, and in Sept we were 17th highest of 33 countries, with 63/million in hosp, vs UK(113), US(260), France(139), Serbia(531), etc. In Oct we were 15th / 33 with 84 in hosp, vs UK(113), US(160), France(99), Serbia(961). So as regards hospitalisations we're Not 'among world leaders', even if we have moved up as we reopened.
    • One of the most reliable indicators of covid performance, that doesn't depend on deaths 'with covid' vs 'of covid', or on the amount of testing, etc., is excess deaths. In that regard Ireland has performed extremely well. The previous Economist data I linked above showed this, and also the data from Our World in Data (see here) and they both tally with the picture shown by medrxiv last Jan (see here), all of whom show Ireland with comparatively little excess deaths.

    Given the above I don't know how you can conclude we've done badly, or that our lockdowns caused us to do worse than countries that didn't lock down! Our lockdown earlier in the pandemic, and the restrictions we all endured, are the most obvious explanation for our minimal excess deaths, and low hospitalisations compared to other countries.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,437 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Nearly a year since they starting jabbing people. I thought we were all supposed to be dead by now? Whats gone wrong?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,482 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Ireland was sent the batch with RFID chips so we could carry out secret missions for the US Navy Seals or something like that.

    Most of the rest of the world population is dead though and all news articles and pictures you see from other countries are scripted and using actors.



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