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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭Klonker


    So tell me what countries has a discriminatory vaccine passport system where antigen tests are not accepted? Yeah would be interesting to see how many have indoor dining closed like us or are implementing a discriminatory vaccine passport system that doesn't accept antigen testing?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,854 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    it seems like a funny state of affairs with restaurants, staff can work there unvaccinated but couldnt eat there as a customer?

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    No idea, can't say I'm particularly fussed about it either.

    YMMV

    My understanding is antigen tests are being considered.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,917 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    There's a big difference already between working in a restaurant and drinking/dining in one. The unvaccinated people working there are unlikely to be under 2m from each other or their customers without masks for long periods.. The customers on the other hand will be sitting at the same table and without masks on. From a safety perspective there is no comparison between the two

    Annoying for the staff involved though admittedly



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,697 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    A friend of mine witnesses yesterday a man around 40, walking outdoors, in the space of two minutes, put on his mask and take it off again 3 or 4 times. He would put it on as somebody walked towards him, and take it off again after the person walked past him.

    This is not normal behaviour. I really worry for some people. They've been damaged by the hysteria.

    Hating the new site BTW. Not easy to use on mobile.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭TomSweeney


    In Spain since June 26th it's been optional to wear a mask outside.


    Sadly 95% of people are still fully masked up - some even doubly so - outside, in the hot weather - even walking alone.

    It's good in a way because one knows immediately who is mentally ill, but it is frightening that so many people are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,620 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    "Considered"


    But not part of the legislation - so its discriminatory.

    A vague commitment to "consider" PCR or antigen tests does not negate the fact that we are about to have in place, a system whereby vaccinated people have rights to enter places that the unvaccinated do not.

    Unlike other member states who rolled it out with free antigen testing, we have no testing available as a substitute for vaccination (or proof-of-recovery), which is in contravention of the council of Europes resolutions on vaccine passports also.

    https://rm.coe.int/protection-of-human-rights-and-the-vaccine-pass/1680a1fac4



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭Klonker


    The answer is no other country. WHO said they were against such a system being implemented on Claire Byrne radio show two weeks ago but here we are with the only discriminatory cert system in Europe.

    Ah antigen tests are being looked at, we'll set up a task force, we'll do another pilot. Does anyone really think theyll be used anytime before October or even at all? Government won't go that out of line with NPHET advice, they're already putting pressure on the under 18s being allowed dine indoors. Thankfully that's the one little bit of sense in this vaccine passport by the government.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    It probably is discriminatory. Until additional measures are put in place I'm ok with that to be honest.

    It's preferable to leaving businesses closed longer than would otherwise be the case.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭Klonker


    We don't know if antigen testing will ever be used for this. Even if we did have the capacity to have widespread antigen testing like in other countries we don't know if it would be utilised here. NPHETs position isn't not to allow antigen testing because we don't have it set up, it's not to use them at all for this anyway. They want it to work in the discriminatory fashion that it will be when it begins next week. There's very little to suggget that government would or will use antigen testing for this if it was all in place already.

    Not having a go at you here, I just don't want it suggested this is only happening as we don't have wide spread antigen testing here. It's happening because this is what NPHET want and it's also because if NPHET we don't have the widespread antigen testing and there's little so far to suggest government would have taken a different approach and went against NPHET on this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    The HSE and government are looking to implement antigen testing in certain circumstances. NPHET are dead against their use anyway so their opinion doesn't matter. The fact that it is used in other countries is enough of a case for its use.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If any mods are reading this, can you please ban me from the covid forum? The new site layout has removed my previously requested ban. I do not want to be tempted by the drivel written in here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,620 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    You (aswell as NPHET) act like those are the only choices we have - discriminatory vaccine passport or no hospitality.

    When we could easily have antigen or PCR tests accepted also right now. Antigen testing is done by private operators all over the country (you use it for entry to most EU countries as part of EU covid pass).

    It would be fairly easy to roll out antigen testing further. Its easier than PCR tests to set up and results are very quick.

    If the HSE can open walk in testing centres all over the country, they could just as easily have walk in antigen testing or else allow pharmacies to do antigen tests. The testing & results will be available onsite - no need for deliveries to labs.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    There are lots of things we don't know.

    What we do know is provision had been made for testing in the new legislation and rapid antigen testing is under consideration.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭Klonker


    What we do know is on whatever day our indoor dining opens next week, we'll have the only discriminatory vaccine passport system in Europe against those who are young and healthy.

    Looking at something or considering something means nothing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,917 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    A man wearing a mask, when near someone, during a pandemic, is one of the less strange things I've seen in the past year... Why do you not consider it normal behavior?


    Completely agree with your comment regarding the new site though



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Discriminatory or not there are no alternate systems yet. Government got caught out by the NHPET "sobering figures" and their insistence on this measure. While it's of no great consolation, we should be looking at 80%+ fully vaccinated by the end of next month with the knock-on effect on infections.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Give it whatever label you want.

    I'm just glad to see restrictions being eased. Whatever way you look at it, that has to be preferable to leaving hospitality closed for another month while rapid tests are considered.

    Is it going to leave some people unhappy, absolutely. They'll get over it.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Would it be fair to say you haven't read the proposed legislation so you're just guessing at what is/isn't part of it.

    I'm thinking in particular of the part of the legislation that covers permitting the minister to make regulations prescribing additional classes of persons as permitted persons including

    "persons who have received the results of medical tests the purpose of which is to detect the presence of Covid-19, or the virus SARS-CoV-2, in the person to whom the test was administered;"



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭Klonker


    I wouldn't say I'm giving it a label, I'm just describing it exactly as it is, that's all. But if you want to call that given it a label fired ahead.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭Klonker


    Where they really got caught out was by listening to NPHETs anti science on antigen tests months ago but because they did this is governments mess of their own making.

    I'd be hugely surprised if we see antigen testing for indoor dining before end of August if at all. We've heard nothing about it in 2 weeks. Surely the plan would be in place by now if they wanted to use and the next few weeks would be implementing how to roll it out. There's no plan and no want of a plan on antigen testing for this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    I think the plan for antigen testing is other areas , college campuses, sports events etc. Indoor dining will be resolved by vaccinations seems to be the approach.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    There's nothing in the legislation to suggest that's the plan. Where did you see that is_that_so?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    It's not in it but it has been talked about quite regularly over the last few months. Harris has been pushing the campus idea for months.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭Klonker


    Ah yes, another pilot is being done, this time on antigen testing in colleges. Might be completed by September, a few months to compile and come to findings by Christmas by which stage NPHET might or might have a quick look at it before dismissing it, just like the Ferguson report.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    NPHET are out of the loop on this as they will never recommend them. It will be government and the HSE who will make the call on where they are used. TBH the HSE has more than enough expertise to do that.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Isn't rapid testing for hospitality now also being talked about.

    Haven't the EAG on Rapid Testing been asked to provide guidance on the subject?

    Regardless, I can see the logic in deferring a decision on reliance on testing rather than vaccination.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Well Leo mentioned it and it could well be. There is certainly no universal love for the passport approach in government. We'll have to wait for a excitable Donnelly tweet to see!

    Meanwhile




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,697 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    Outdoors, walking past somebody. Sorry that's not normal behaviour.



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