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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Comments

  • #4022
    Floppybits
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,020 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    gozunda wrote: »
    You did actually



    As to your question "Did we ever report on the number of people who had flu?"

    Yes we do. Flu is a notifiable disease. The Health Protection Surveillance Centre report and publish weekly Influenza surveillance reports online. The media also publish regular news stories on the rise of influenza cases etc.

    https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/influenza/seasonalinfluenza/surveillance/influenzasurveillancereports/20202021season/

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/flu-season-on-track-to-be-worse-than-last-year-1.3754024

    As detailed we currently count both new covid cases and hospital numbers plus a whole host of other metrics. If we don't have this information we're in the dark.

    I never said suppress the numbers that is what you said, I was saying that the focus should be on the hospitalisation numbers from Covid. We can have a 1million cases of people infected with Covid but if only 10 people are hospitalised it would indicate that the vaccines are working and people are developing immunity are therefore no need for restrictions but if as we do at the moment put all the focus on the number of cases then that is just driving fear in the community.


  • #4023
    MOH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,470 ✭✭✭MOH


    sporina wrote: »
    seems to me that the only reason the gov are being so strict is cos they are worried hospitals will become swamped (and it doesn't take much)..

    if thats the case, why don't they invest more in our healthcare? once and for all???

    (i'm no expert though - open to correction {from those with more insight})

    Ah now, it's not like either the Taoiseach or Tanaiste was ever in a position to do that. Such as being the minister for health. Or even being the minister for health during the Celtic Tiger.


  • #4024
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    FileNotFound wrote: »
    No and we never mass tested for it. If we did one could expect astounding numbers of seasonal flu - seriously astounding. We are getting to that point where having one of the most aggressive test regimes (i am pro mass testing but acknowledge the issue) is resulting in us finding a lot of case numbers, but these do not translate into hospital cases or death at the moment.
    Uk is in the same boat - think they are testing more than anyone but stand to be corrected on this.

    Two things. As detailed above influenza cases are routinely monitored and published. Not saying its the exact same as to how the current pandemic is tracked. But surveillance is routinely carried out and numbers published weekly as queried by the previous poster.

    The other thing is that more testing does not necessarily equate with more cases
    it has been shown that the relationship between more testing and new cases isn’t always straightforward. In Finland, health workers doubled the number of tests carried out in the space of a month, and found that positive cases ticked downward. Likewise in the U.K. and Portugal...

    For some European countries too, such as Belgium and Spain, rising test rates do coincide with more cases. However, in both countries, the rate of rising infections outstripped the increase in tests — suggesting that there is a real resurgence of the virus going on and not that officials are just getting better at detecting it...

    Experts warn the data must be treated with caution. Graham Medley, professor of infectious disease modelling at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, said the relationship between the volume of testing and number of positives is complex.

    “It does depend how the testing is targeted (who is being offered tests), and which individuals are agreeing to be tested, or coming forward requesting tests,” 

    https://www.politico.eu/article/does-more-coronavirus-testing-mean-more-cases/

    I've seen recent graphs comparing number of tests done compared with infections here and the two metrics were not aligned. I'll see if I can find the link


  • #4025
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I'm saying that Twitter and social media are not representative of the population at large and that things such those bot accounts should be discussed and not be relegated to the Conspiracy Theory forum. Especially since Twitter, in spite of its insignificance in the grand scheme of things, increasingly determines public policy.

    Never said they were. The previous implications was that the move was garnering popular support. And that was posted to show that was not necessarily the case. But no I wasn't talking about Bots. I'm aware they exist.


  • #4026
    sporina
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,130 ✭✭✭sporina


    Knex* wrote: »
    HSE is proportionally one of the best funded healthcare programmes in the world. The budget for 2021 is over 20 billion.

    Funding isn't our issue. Complete mismanagement of funding is, and that is a problem that is absolutely endemic in Irish Public Services.

    ok - so why don't they manage it correctly?? like, when will they learn????!!!! :mad:
    basill wrote: »
    Will you please stop applying common sense and logic:)

    You mean like go and ask the Brits if you can copy and paste their plans and buy some land off the M50 and bring in emergency legislation to rush through planning. Jeez the emergency and ICU departments could have been built first and been up and running by now. GBP545million Birmingham cost back in 2010.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Elizabeth_Hospital_Birmingham

    No its much better to blame some nasty nuns for not giving you their land for free or blaming anyone with a pulse for all the failings in relation to the childrens hospital.

    the mind boggles.. I wish they could be more proactive instead of always just winging it.. gets us nowhere


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  • #4027
    TefalBrain
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 710 ✭✭✭TefalBrain


    Floppybits wrote: »
    Paul Reid admitted the other day that hospitals are at full capacity now and Varadkar admitted the same again today. In fairness a lot of money is invested in the Health Service the only problem is that by the time the money gets where it needs to go so many chunks has been taken out of it by vested interest that there is barely enough to fund the services provided.

    Imagine that, hospitals at full capacity in the middle of the summer with no flu season, tiny covid numbers on wards and per capita one of the best funded health services in the world. God help us if we ever had a natural disaster or massive terrorist attack etc..

    And some see Holohan as a saint of some sort. :pac:

    This nation is world class at patting itself on the back and not much good at anything else.


  • #4028
    Economics101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭Economics101


    Floppybits wrote: »
    Paul Reid admitted the other day that hospitals are at full capacity now and Varadkar admitted the same again today.

    But the hospitals have been a full capacity for years, as evidenced by long waiting times even before Covid. Do we want to use a chronically underperforming (thought not underfunded) HSE as an excuse for more continuing disruptions to everyday life?


  • #4029
    Red Silurian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,919 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Economics101 wrote: »
    But the hospitals have been a full capacity for years, as evidenced by long waiting times even before Covid. Do we want to use a chronically underperforming (thought not underfunded) HSE as an excuse for more continuing disruptions to everyday life?

    Of course we don't want to but util something drastic changes in the HSE we have to


  • #4030
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    gozunda wrote: »
    I never said they were. The previous implications was that the move was garnering popular support. And that was posted to show that was not necessarily the case. But no I wasn't talking about Bots. I'm aware they exist.

    But weren't you basing that lack of support on tweets on Twitter? And those bot accounts show that Twitter shouldn't be taken seriously and that those YouGov polls should be taken with a huge pinch of salt.


  • #4031
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 220 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Economics101 wrote: »
    But the hospitals have been a full capacity for years, as evidenced by long waiting times even before Covid. Do we want to use a chronically underperforming (thought not underfunded) HSE as an excuse for more continuing disruptions to everyday life?

    Paul Reid has trousered more than a half-million euro of taxpayers' money since the pandemic began in Spring last year, and the HSE is overwhelmed with fifty Covid patients.

    It's quite astonishing the Government seem content to leave him in charge of the HSE.


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  • #4032
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,998 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Knex* wrote: »
    HSE is proportionally one of the best funded healthcare programmes in the world. The budget for 2021 is over 20 billion.

    Funding isn't our issue. Complete mismanagement of funding is, and that is a problem that is absolutely endemic in Irish Public Services.


    Article in today's Irish Times said one public service employee was paid €640,000 in a year.

    Link


  • #4033
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    But weren't you basing that lack of support on tweets on Twitter? And those bot accounts show that Twitter shouldn't be taken seriously and that those YouGov polls should be taken with a huge pinch of salt.

    No. Simply an example. And yes we know bot accounts exist on all social media or do you believe its only anti Boris et al stuff is being posted by bots?

    OK we better have a moratorium on twitter then.

    Hang on what if there is bots on boards :eek:


  • #4034
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 220 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    growleaves wrote: »
    Article in today's Irish Times said one HSE consultant was paid €640,000 in a year.

    Tony Holohan has been paid - I almost said earned - a quarter million euro since the pandemic began for "projections and advice" which seem to consist solely of repeating "ALL WILL PERISH!!!!" and "close everything down!!!" with increasing volume, frequency, and hysteria.

    He took over a million and a half in salary during the duration of The Unmentionable.

    That's not including pension contributions.

    It's likely that Tony Holohan has cost the State about five million euro in salary and pension contributions over the years to deliver The Unmentionable, and the world's longest, harshest lockdown.


  • #4035
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,998 ✭✭✭growleaves


    I didn't know you could become a multi-millionaire by working as a consultant for the HSE. Make me regret doing that Women's Studies PhD I put so much sweat into.

    Oh well downwards and onwards.


  • #4036
    Penfailed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,684 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    beaz2018 wrote: »
    'Tonys job is to give advice...its the govs fault....' christ almighty if i hear that again. Yes in a normal country where they dont have murals, freedoms of the city, late late show appearances, yes the cmo gives advice and the gov act. In this backwater, we have given such an enormous pedestal to a GP with a dodgy past that it is political suicide to go against him. Therefore he doesnt just advise, he dictates.

    ...and that is the government's fault.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES, And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Spiritualized, Supergrass, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Queens of the Stone Age, Electric Picnic, Vantastival, And So I Watch You From Afar



  • #4037
    Floppybits
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,020 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    Economics101 wrote: »
    But the hospitals have been a full capacity for years, as evidenced by long waiting times even before Covid. Do we want to use a chronically underperforming (thought not underfunded) HSE as an excuse for more continuing disruptions to everyday life?

    We did have an opportunity to do it right when the HSE was set up which was a good idea at the start but then as always the government caved into Unions and vested interests and the mess we now have was created.

    The problem we have is that we don't have the people with the backbone in the positions to take on the vested interests and change the service. For a more recent example look at the children's hospital, everyone in their right mind knows that it should never have been built where it is being built but again the vested interests won and look at the mess that has turned out to be.


  • #4038
    Floppybits
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,020 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    growleaves wrote: »
    I didn't know you could become a multi-millionaire by working as a consultant for the HSE. Make me regret doing that Women's Studies PhD I put so much sweat into.

    Oh well downwards and onwards.

    Should have went into cable laying like Paul Reid did.


  • #4039
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,998 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Penfailed wrote: »
    ...and that is the government's fault.

    Yes and they don't have the authority to give away their authority to a Chief Medical Officer.

    There is too much focus on personalities, and not enough holding the Government to account.


  • #4040
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Floppybits wrote: »
    I never said suppress the numbers that is what you said, I was saying that the focus should be on the hospitalisation numbers from Covid. We can have a 1million cases of people infected with Covid but if only 10 people are hospitalised it would indicate that the vaccines are working and people are developing immunity are therefore no need for restrictions but if as we do at the moment put all the focus on the number of cases then that is just driving fear in the community.

    No what you said was "We need to stop counting the number of people with Covid"

    And yes all metrics are measured atm. We know vaccines are working unfortunately the virus has just slipped us another ace and we're seeing risng case numbers and rising hospitalisations in the UK. So no I dont believe we can ditch the information just yet. I really don't accept this 'fear in the community' stuff. People aren't stupid. Most can work things out for themselves without hiding stuff.


  • #4041
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    gozunda wrote: »
    No. Simply an example. And yes we know bot accounts exist on all social media or do you believe its only anti Boris et al stuff is being posted by bots?

    OK we better have a moratorium on twitter then.

    Hang on what if there is bots on boards :eek:

    Mostly anti-lifting of restrictions, I would say.

    In many ways I think the world would be so much better without Twitter and social media. I can't think of a single good thing about Twitter.

    But anyway, won't labour the point.


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  • #4042
    Archeron
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,546 ✭✭✭Archeron


    growleaves wrote: »
    Yes and they don't have the authority to give away their authority to a Chief Medical Officer.

    They don't have the authority and yet they have done it anyway. The people in Ireland have been utterly betrayed by this government.

    Genuine question because I dont the answer, how do we call for the collapse of this government? How do we get these w*nkers out of Leinster House? Is it a case that we all need to take to the streets? Because I am ready to do that now.


  • #4043
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,126 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Archeron wrote: »
    They don't have the authority and yet they have done it anyway. The people in Ireland have been utterly betrayed by this government.

    Genuine question because I dont the answer, how do we call for the collapse of this government? How do we get these w*nkers out of Leinster House? Is it a case that we all need to take to the streets? Because I am ready to do that now.
    Because you can't eat inside in a pub or restaurant??
    I don't know about you but I'd consider that a strange hill to die on tbh.


  • #4044
    JacksonHeightsOwn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,913 ✭✭✭JacksonHeightsOwn


    regarding this digital covid passport thing.

    I was just reading on RTE this

    People who have recovered from Covid will need a laboratory confirmation of this, alongside a negative PCR test.

    What exactly does that mean?

    I had covid 7 weeks ago and also got my first pfizer vaccine yesterday,

    Technically, im more immune form covid because i had it than taking any vaccine, so what does a "laboratory confirmation" mean?


  • #4045
    Penfailed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,684 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    He did.

    He began by saying alcohol had no part to play in the decision making process, then spent 4 additional minutes explaining the reasons why alcohol was damaging to the process of containing the virus. :rolleyes:

    Of course alcohol access plays a role. Pubs are nuclei of ethanol consumption -- and they've been closed for the best part of 15 months. Other indoor zones remain accessible, but pubs do not.

    The idea that it's got nothing to do with alcohol is absurd.

    Off licences are open. Pubs are open outdoors. Takeaway pints haven't stopped. Hotels are open and serving drink. It's got nothing to do with alcohol.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES, And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Spiritualized, Supergrass, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Queens of the Stone Age, Electric Picnic, Vantastival, And So I Watch You From Afar



  • #4046
    the kelt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,893 ✭✭✭the kelt


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    Because you can't eat inside in a pub or restaurant??
    I don't know about you but I'd consider that a strange hill to die on tbh.

    How many more times are ye going to keep repeating the “it’s all about indoor pints and eating inside” mantra despite being replied to numerous times by people with incidences of how it’s not?


  • #4047
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,126 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    the kelt wrote: »
    How many more times are ye going to keep repeating the “it’s all about indoor pints and eating inside” mantra despite being replied to numerous times by people with incidences of how it’s not?

    Because their arguments don't stack up. It's just blind anger and rage at the inability to eat or drink inside.


  • #4048
    the kelt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,893 ✭✭✭the kelt


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    Because their arguments don't stack up. It's just blind anger and rage at the inability to eat or drink inside.

    Yep that’s it alright

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=117591814&postcount=3521

    There’s a few more posts there in the thread about the actual issues with restrictions etc but sure, All about eating and drinking inside.


  • #4049
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    TefalBrain wrote: »
    Imagine that, hospitals at full capacity in the middle of the summer with no flu season, tiny covid numbers on wards and per capita one of the best funded health services in the world. God help us if we ever had a natural disaster or massive terrorist attack etc..And some see Holohan as a saint of some sort. :pac: This nation is world class at patting itself on the back and not much good at anything else.

    Not sure where you're getting the "Saint" bit. The main ones who seem to be using that moniker are those who are holding him personally responsible for the end of the universe or similar. As for back patting -

    The thing is we know the HSE was in deep doodoo long before covid. And that was never going to be fixed in the midst of a pandemic when resources were been thrown at coping with treating covid patients.

    Re. Tiny covid numbers in wards - vaccines are working and that's good news

    Having recently talked to a number of people working there - the current high numbers in hospital are largely due the backlog from when services were suspended last year and partially from the cyber attack.

    At present the best thing we can hope for is that we won't need more beds for any increase in Covid patients....


  • #4050
    Coillte_Bhoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,932 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy


    Archeron wrote: »
    They don't have the authority and yet they have done it anyway. The people in Ireland have been utterly betrayed by this government.

    Genuine question because I dont the answer, how do we call for the collapse of this government? How do we get these w*nkers out of Leinster House? Is it a case that we all need to take to the streets? Because I am ready to do that now.


    Oh for crying out loud :pac: The sheer ignorance of how democracy and government in this country works is quite scary. Thing is, if vast numbers of people felt like you then maybe an anti govt movement might develop, but they dont and it won't. Suck it up.


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  • #4051
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    Because their arguments don't stack up. It's just blind anger and rage at the inability to eat or drink inside.

    You need a new line. You've said this about ten times already. There's nothing blind about anger towards a state who are unjustly suppressing peoples rights. I honestly find it disgusting how certain posters are willing to frame our rights as some sort of trivial thing, when they anything but trivial.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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