Home charge points (purchase/problems/questions) (See mod note post#1)

Felexicon · 28-06-2021 10:33PM

Tazium wrote: »

Having my install completed tomorrow. The house is a new build completed in 2020 and is pre-wired for Electric car charging. KN are still talking about drilling through the house to the fuse board so thought I’d ask the knowledge base here, is that necessary? Can the CT clamp and power be drawn from the smart meter box and mains at the front?

I’ve read the links posted for the updates to the regulations but with pre-wiring I don’t know where that will leave me.

So you have a 6sq ran from fuse board to junction box outside?

I've had a few like that and have no issue using existing cabling once tests are ok.

Not sure what the CT clamp set up is like with the EO though.

Is the current cable near your ESB cabinet?

Tazium · 28-06-2021 10:58PM

Felexicon wrote: »

So you have a 6sq ran from fuse board to junction box outside?

I've had a few like that and have no issue using existing cabling once tests are ok.

Not sure what the CT clamp set up is like with the EO though.

Is the current cable near your ESB cabinet?

I’ve not opened or checked the connections. Expecting it’s been done to whatever standard was in place for 2020 buildings. Details I have state it’s been prepared for charger but no specifics unfortunately. There’s an outside point that looks like a closed off grey external socket housing and it’s less than a metre from the External cabinet where the smart meter lives. Fuse board is in a utility cabinet at the back of the house there’s space for more fuses but I’ve no idea what’s cabled in there.

Felexicon · 28-06-2021 11:12PM

Tazium wrote: »

I’ve not opened or checked the connections. Expecting it’s been done to whatever standard was in place for 2020 buildings. Details I have state it’s been prepared for charger but no specifics unfortunately. There’s an outside point that looks like a closed off grey external socket housing and it’s less than a metre from the External cabinet where the smart meter lives. Fuse board is in a utility cabinet at the back of the house there’s space for more fuses but I’ve no idea what’s cabled in there.

Yeah that's fairly standard on new houses now. Cable is probably just left coiled up in the fuse board. He should just need to fit an RCBO and then fit the isolator where that grey box is.

Most places will give a worst case scenario but once the installer see it he'll be happy he doesn't have to go drilling and pulling in new cables

Tazium · 29-06-2021 03:48PM

In and out in an hour. The pre-wired cable to the fuse board was used and a new cable for the CT to the external meter cabinet. Very tidy work. If only the car could arrive as quick, that'd be great.

Sam the Sham · 02-07-2021 06:01PM

I had a guy out to the house to talk about installing an EV charger. Turns out I need to upgrade at least the mains tails coming out of my meter and probably other work as well. Am I allowed to ask here for recommendations of Dublin-based electricians?

THE ALM · 03-07-2021 11:21AM

Couple of questions regarding install, really for my own curiosity as I have a electrician hopefully coming out on Monday. Have spoken to him on the phone about the location etc. and ideally it would be an easier job to install from the meter box although with a bit of work could get to the consumer unit.

Zappi going in and the meter was changed during the week to a day/night digital.

Reading up on install it would appear that a new set of tails will have to be brought from the meter to a new isolation unit in the meter box if going that route and if going from the consumer unit tails of 25mm2 will be required, looks like ours are 16mm2. If both these cases who takes care of the new tails/changing the tails?

Looking at the various videos of installs, granted they are mainly UK based, the electrician looks to have the option to remove a section from the meter to install/change tails. Looking at the meter we have installed the unit is sealed with the ESB metal tag with no access to install/change tails.

Am I looking at getting the ESB out again to connect the new tails as, I assume, an electrician has no way of accessing them?

If running from the meter box will the tails to the consumer unit still have to be upgraded?

the_amazing_raisin · 03-07-2021 11:52AM

There should be a small fuse panel inside the meter box, the live from the meter should go through that and then into your house

I believe the electrician can swap that out for a slightly larger panel with 2 fuses. One for the charger and the other will go to the CU

THE ALM · 03-07-2021 12:02PM

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

There should be a small fuse panel inside the meter box, the live from the meter should go through that and then into your house

I believe the electrician can swap that out for a slightly larger panel with 2 fuses. One for the charger and the other will go to the CU

seen them on various install videos alright but not in our installation, 2006 built house. Tails are going straight from the meter to the consumer unit.

This is the reason for my curiosity as looking at it the ESB will have to come out for either install location that we use whether from the meter box or the consumer unit. We will need a new set of tails if installing in the meter box or ungraded tails if coming from the consumer unit both scenarios entail opening the meter.

meercat · 03-07-2021 06:20PM

https://www.garo.ie/docs/2021/specs/gc6ev40 spce.pdf

You’ll most likely need this one if fitting in the meter box

If your mains are being upgraded then your earth rod may need to be done also along with equipotential bonding in your home.

Surge protection is also a requirement for new cables installed from February unless a risk assessment has been done.

When your rec does his work then a certificate will be issued to Esbn and then they call to connect to the meter. They charge for this (€180 approx)

The preferred method is still to connect your chargepoint to the distribution board. The meterbox should only be a last resort. If your rec installs new mains cables then the whole house has to be tested and any issues must be rectified before issuing a certificate (or else a notice of potential hazard must be issued)

THE ALM · 04-07-2021 02:34PM

meercat wrote: »

https://www.garo.ie/docs/2021/specs/gc6ev40 spce.pdf

You’ll most likely need this one if fitting in the meter box

If your mains are being upgraded then your earth rod may need to be done also along with equipotential bonding in your home.

Surge protection is also a requirement for new cables installed from February unless a risk assessment has been done.

When your rec does his work then a certificate will be issued to Esbn and then they call to connect to the meter. They charge for this (€180 approx)

The preferred method is still to connect your chargepoint to the distribution board. The meterbox should only be a last resort. If your rec installs new mains cables then the whole house has to be tested and any issues must be rectified before issuing a certificate (or else a notice of potential hazard must be issued)

Thanks Meercat, a bit of work either way and a lot to discuss with the rec.

Ozreb · 04-07-2021 06:36PM

Looking for help on installing a charger in the underground car park of my apartment block. Have management company approval to run the cable from my meter along the cable rack to the pillar of my space (circa 80m). Will need an untethered lockable charger to prevent others using it. Given the space is underground, connecting to home wifi isn't easy. Just wondering if anyone has come across these challenges?

What's the best charger (thinking Zappi).
Is there any way of being able to use the app if the wifi is that far away? Does that make things v difficult?
Will 80m cause a lot of electrical loss?
Any other advice help would be appreciated

KCross · 04-07-2021 06:48PM

You could look at a charge point that supports an RFID card to start the charge

Another option is simply run a cat6 cable alongside the power cable so that it has internet access (ie avoid WiFi issues).

eddhorse · 04-07-2021 06:55PM

Could also get a Zappi and put a password on it, other chargers might have similar, I have no experience with them.
It also uses a Harvi from Myenergi which isn't WiFi, I think it's Zigbee so hard to know if you will be covered, doubtful.
Depending on your car you might be able kick off a charge over 4G.

04-07-2021 07:01PM

80 metres sounds difficult to say the least. That's going to have to be serious stuff.

eddhorse · 04-07-2021 07:11PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

80 metres sounds difficult to say the least. That's going to have to be serious stuff.

The cable run could differ to the actual straight line from WiFi, but even in open space and not in an underground car park 80m is on the upper end.

glynf · 04-07-2021 07:16PM

Ozreb wrote: »

Looking for help on installing a charger in the underground car park of my apartment block. Have management company approval to run the cable from my meter along the cable rack to the pillar of my space (circa 80m). Will need an untethered lockable charger to prevent others using it. Given the space is underground, connecting to home wifi isn't easy. Just wondering if anyone has come across these challenges?

What's the best charger (thinking Zappi).
Is there any way of being able to use the app if the wifi is that far away? Does that make things v difficult?
Will 80m cause a lot of electrical loss?
Any other advice help would be appreciated

+1 for an EVSE with RFID. ABB Terra, Wallbox Pulsar+, ABL eMH2 and Webasto live to name a few have built in readers. If your apartment block uses Mifare cards/fobs for landlord areas, you can add same or most 3rd party 4/7 byte cards to the ABB & ABL kit, I think you can with wallbox as well.

ABB & wallbox units have apps which can start a charging session and unlock the connector respectively. Both connect locally using bluetooth so web connection is not necessary.We have the metered eMH2 and I added the VW 'we charge' card and work fobs to start charging on ours.

80M from the meter cab is a long enough run so v.drop might be an issue (4-7%-ish)so the sparks would most likely up a cable size to 10sqmm to the isolator.

...Ghost... · 04-07-2021 07:35PM

The old man has picked up one of those Plugin Tucsons. He parks in underground carpark and the MC is supposed to be installing group chargers, so has offered me the "free" charge point from Hyundai/Energia. I'm not sure whether to take him up on the offer. I have a driveway and myself we drive Leafs, so have a type1 charger. We might change one of the Leafs for a newer EV in the next year or two, but it's not on the cards right now. We would have to pay a fee to break our contract with the electricity provider and the Energia rate would not be as good as it would be for a new/returning customer. I am thinking it's probably best to leave it, but wondering if it would be worth my while haveing the type2 charger there if someone needed it, or for when we replace one of the Leafs....hopefully a model 3/Y next year or the year after. What would you do?

zg3409 · 04-07-2021 09:48PM

Ozreb wrote: »

Looking for help on installing a charger in the underground car park of my apartment block. Have management company approval to run the cable from my meter along the cable rack to the pillar of my space (circa 80m). Will need an untethered lockable charger to prevent others using it. Given the space is underground, connecting to home wifi isn't easy. Just wondering if anyone has come across these challenges?

What's the best charger (thinking Zappi).
Is there any way of being able to use the app if the wifi is that far away? Does that make things v difficult?
Will 80m cause a lot of electrical loss?
Any other advice help would be appreciated

You can put a pin on a zappi. No need for internet and wifi. Smart chargers are over rated. I can't see anyone stealing your power in a private car park. You could always install a lockable isolator or turn off at fuseboard in house if it was a problem. If you really want smart charger options you could run a 100 metre Ethernet cable to a myenergi hub, next to zappi and it would be online via a wire.

Gumbo · 04-07-2021 10:49PM

...Ghost... wrote: »

The old man has picked up one of those Plugin Tucsons. He parks in underground carpark and the MC is supposed to be installing group chargers, so has offered me the "free" charge point from Hyundai/Energia. I'm not sure whether to take him up on the offer. I have a driveway and myself we drive Leafs, so have a type1 charger. We might change one of the Leafs for a newer EV in the next year or two, but it's not on the cards right now. We would have to pay a fee to break our contract with the electricity provider and the Energia rate would not be as good as it would be for a new/returning customer. I am thinking it's probably best to leave it, but wondering if it would be worth my while haveing the type2 charger there if someone needed it, or for when we replace one of the Leafs....hopefully a model 3/Y next year or the year after. What would you do?

Be careful. You have to send in copies if the log book etc so your dad would need to do a change of address before sending anything in and he would have to use your address as the contact point.

You then have to send photos of the charger and the car into them after the work is done.

Not a big deal but just make sure it’s done to get the grant.

...Ghost... · 05-07-2021 03:16PM

Gumbo wrote: »

Be careful. You have to send in copies if the log book etc so your dad would need to do a change of address before sending anything in and he would have to use your address as the contact point.

You then have to send photos of the charger and the car into them after the work is done.

Not a big deal but just make sure it’s done to get the grant.

Sounds like more hassle than it's worth. The Hyundai person said the CP can be installed at any address, but the person needed to switch to Energia. Looking on Energia, it's an install worth about €1300, but you don't get the same rates you would get as a new customer....20% off as opposed to over 30% and then there's the cancellation fee with current provider having left Energia a couple of months ago.

apubwithnobeer · 06-07-2021 11:39AM

Home insurance and wall chargers

Hi. I am
Renewing my insurance. I am struggling to find an insurer who will cover the wall charger. Is there any insurer who will cover wall chargers?

Sam W · 06-07-2021 11:46AM

apubwithnobeer wrote: »

Home insurance and wall chargers

Hi. I am
Renewing my insurance. I am struggling to find an insurer who will cover the wall charger. Is there any insurer who will cover wall chargers?

EVinsurance.ie covers EV ‘sundries’. When I got a quote they specifically told me they insure cables but I’m not 100% sure about the charger unit itself.

the_amazing_raisin · 06-07-2021 01:37PM

apubwithnobeer wrote: »

Home insurance and wall chargers

Hi. I am
Renewing my insurance. I am struggling to find an insurer who will cover the wall charger. Is there any insurer who will cover wall chargers?

I assume it's covered under house insurance for damage from flooding or fire

Other than accidental damage like your wife catching the charging cable under her car and ripping the charger off the wall (yep, that happened, and I'm still bitter about it :rolleyes:) there's not much else

Someone might come and nick the cable but you can generally lock it into the car end so that'll minimise the risk there at least

Quin_Dub · 06-07-2021 02:44PM

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

I assume it's covered under house insurance for damage from flooding or fire

Other than accidental damage like your wife catching the charging cable under her car and ripping the charger off the wall (yep, that happened, and I'm still bitter about it :rolleyes:) there's not much else

Someone might come and nick the cable but you can generally lock it into the car end so that'll minimise the risk there at least

It's not something I'd thought about but I'd tend to agree with you , my assumption would be that as it's effectively part of the house given that it's wired in to the mains etc. that the House insurance would cover it.

Depending on the policy you might need to add it as a "specific declared item" like an expensive TV or jewellery etc. though.

GymComerford · 06-07-2021 03:44PM

Any body got 2 zapppis installed ?

KCross · 06-07-2021 06:40PM

apubwithnobeer wrote: »

Home insurance and wall chargers

Hi. I am
Renewing my insurance. I am struggling to find an insurer who will cover the wall charger. Is there any insurer who will cover wall chargers?

Its typically wired and bolted to the house. I'd expect insurance to cover it without any special conditions or declarations, but maybe I'm naive on that.

Also, if it did get robbed, would you claim off your house insurance for it? They would, no doubt, apply an excess (usually €250+) which would take most of the claim amount off you and you'd be red marking yourself with the insurance company as a future theft risk.... I dont think I'd claim for it. I'd try to secure my property better and take it as a lesson learned.

the_amazing_raisin · 06-07-2021 07:39PM

KCross wrote: »

Its typically wired and bolted to the house. I'd expect insurance to cover it without any special conditions or declarations, but maybe I'm naive on that.

Also, if it did get robbed, would you claim off your house insurance for it? They would, no doubt, apply an excess (usually €250+) which would take most of the claim amount off you and you'd be red marking yourself with the insurance company as a future theft risk.... I dont think I'd claim for it. I'd try to secure my property better and take it as a lesson learned.

You'd have to wonder at the logic of someone who spends 30 mins unscrewing a €600 charger from the wall when there's a €40k car sitting beside it

Having said that, there were groups of industrious young gentlemen spending 10 mins or more cutting the catalytic converters off cars in broad daylight last year, so getting caught isn't much of a concern apparently :rolleyes:

Kramer · 06-07-2021 08:51PM

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

You'd have to wonder at the logic of someone who spends 30 mins unscrewing a €600 charger from the wall when there's a €40k car sitting beside it

If they even got €20 for it, that'd be a handy €40 an hour for their time.
I bet some industrious young gentlemen could remove a Zappi in less than 30minutes too

.

Sure haven't we even installed bright red isolator switches for them, lest they get a shock! Next we'll mandate quick release levers, health & safety of course :rolleyes:.

the_amazing_raisin · 06-07-2021 08:56PM

Kramer wrote: »

If they even got €20 for it, that'd be a handy €40 an hour for their time.
I bet some industrious young gentlemen could remove a Zappi in less than 30minutes too .

Sure haven't we even installed bright red isolator switches for them, lest they get a shock! Next we'll mandate quick release levers, health & safety of course :rolleyes:.

Apparently if you pull hard on the cable at a right angle to the charger it comes right off the wall, as my wife found out (yep, I'm still going on about that :pac:)

RonnieL · 18-07-2021 10:12PM

My parents in law are buying my leaf off me, and will need a charger installed. They plan to apply for the grant, but I said I'd look into the best charger option for them. I have a V1 zappi, which has been excellent for me, but their house doesn't really have much space at the front to mount one that size. Is there a tidy tetherless option people would recommend? I've read through some of this thread, and saw mention of the EO mini which looks good from a size perspective. Any good alternatives? Or if the EO Mini is a good option, any good suppliers in Dublin? (google isn't coming back with much here). They have an electrician lined up (just need to double check he has the correct accreditation).

Home charge points (purchase/problems/questions) (See mod note post#1)

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