Told off for being on leave

slo007 · 01-07-2021 1:35pm #1

Hello,

I was on approved leave and an activity which was planned for 2 days after I planned to return occurred early, whilst I was away. I answered my phone throughout the activity and it went well without a hitch.

Nevertheless, instead of getting the expected congratulations, my manager told me off for being on leave, having lack of ownership, being hard to reach, etc. and that I should have cancelled my leave, etc.

I disagreed with the arguments and he told me I was being defensive.

I suspect this will come up again at year-end.

Should I follow up now? How can I do so from a position that makes sense? Should it be in writing or verbal?

Can the business expect someone to drop everything (holidays) on the spot and without notice?

Fann Linn · 01-07-2021 1:40pm

You're on approved leave.
Clown brings meeting/event forward.
It's his fault.

Take screenshot of above and give it to your boss,

topdecko · 01-07-2021 1:41pm

You mean you were on leave and the company rescheduled a work activity to take place when you were on leave which you took part in (on your leave). You returned to a manager berating you for being on leave.
Would need to understand context here - how important was this activity? When was it rearranged etc. When did you book the leave and had you organised something for that week or were you sitting in your underpants at home etc

Stovepipe · 01-07-2021 1:42pm

Tell him to piss off,politely,of course. You are entitled to leave and entitled to not being disturbed on your days off. You could have been at a sick child's bedside for all he knew. Don't commit anything to paper or email as it will be used as a weapon against you. If they use this against you at a later date, tell them you will go legal if they interfere with your private life again.

HeidiHeidi · 01-07-2021 1:44pm

topdecko wrote: »

You mean you were on leave and the company rescheduled a work activity to take place when you were on leave which you took part in (on your leave). You returned to a manager berating you for being on leave.
Would need to understand context here - how important was this activity? When was it rearranged etc. When did you book the leave and had you organised something for that week or were you sitting in your underpants at home etc

If sitting in his underpants at home is what he wants to do with his leave, that's his perogative, surely?

Who decided to move the event, and when and why?

Fann Linn · 01-07-2021 1:45pm

topdecko wrote: »

You mean you were on leave and the company rescheduled a work activity to take place when you were on leave which you took part in (on your leave). You returned to a manager berating you for being on leave.
Would need to understand context here - how important was this activity? When was it rearranged etc. When did you book the leave and had you organised something for that week or were you sitting in your underpants at home etc

In fairness the op doesn't need to answer any of those questions.
The leave was APPROVED.

sbs2010 · 01-07-2021 1:47pm

Holy sh1t, that boss sounds like a total ass hole.

And tells you you're defensive when you explain it from your side.

If you were essential to the piece of work the fault is entirely with whoever decided to reschedule it without knowing all the key people were available.

Was that the boss? Is he trying to shift blame for his fcuk up?

antodeco · 01-07-2021 1:51pm

Surely this would fall under the Right to Disconnect and you were under zero obligation on approved leave to even know if the existence of stuff happening!

o1s1n · 01-07-2021 2:08pm

sbs2010 wrote: »

Holy sh1t, that boss sounds like a total ass hole.

And tells you you're defensive when you explain it from your side.

If you were essential to the piece of work the fault is entirely with whoever decided to reschedule it without knowing all the key people were available.

Was that the boss? Is he trying to shift blame for his fcuk up?

Yeah it sounds like the boss has pressure coming down on him from above and he's looking for an easy target to blame.

I'd be having none of that! In our fast paced modern world, leave is bloody sacred. You should be able to switch off and be left alone for the duration.

I'd seriously be looking for another place to work if they were unable to do something as simple as respect when I'm on leave.

slo007 · 01-07-2021 2:11pm

topdecko wrote: »

Would need to understand context here - how important was this activity?

Expensive, not business critical.

When was it rearranged etc.

Same day it took place, no notice

When did you book the leave

2-3 months ago

had you organised something for that week or were you sitting in your underpants at home etc

I was away due to personal commitments

superflyninja · 01-07-2021 2:15pm

So even though you were on leave you took calls? Id be going to HR. Sounds like the boss is trying to dump this on you.

sprucemoose · 01-07-2021 2:20pm

topdecko wrote: »

how important was this activity? When was it rearranged etc. When did you book the leave and had you organised something for that week or were you sitting in your underpants at home etc

none of those are relevant whatsoever, if it were approved then thats that. The op was being incredibly helpful by dealing with the matter as best they could while on leave and was in no way at fault for any possible problems

Calahonda52 · 01-07-2021 2:50pm

Document your recall of the meeting now on paper for your own use, sign and date it and then request a meeting with HR and your manager to seek clarification of the company policy to such issues so that you can be a team player.
You can use the notes as an aide memoir during the meeting but don't part with it.

loyatemu · 01-07-2021 3:40pm

slo007 wrote: »

Same day it took place, no notice

so they rearranged it while you were already on leave?
probably shouldn't have even answered your phone.

Thoie · 01-07-2021 3:46pm

I'd also be asking for that day of leave back as well.

Was it the manager rearranged it, or someone else (like a client, for example)?

I'd document a mail to the manager saying that you were out of office on annual leave, as agreed on <date in April>. Everyone had notice that you were unavailable during that time, yet after you had already left the office <someone> rearranged important meeting to happen during your absence.

You facilitated the change to the best of your ability under the circumstances, but would like that day's vacation time back, and would like his suggestions on how to avoid similar issues in future.

Hooked · 01-07-2021 3:48pm

Just stumbled in from the home page...

Sorry to sound harsh, but you took a work call while on approved annual leave? I'm more upset with you, than your boss, to be honest.

While I work VERY hard during my scheduled 9-5.30, Mon to Friday job... I've never entertained a call/email or otherwise, outside of those hours...

And you'd have a snowballs chance in hell of getting hold of me while on leave!

Telly · 01-07-2021 3:54pm

Why did you answer calls on your day off?

Supercell · 01-07-2021 3:55pm

Sounds like your manager is being a power mad dick.
I'd be talking to HR about this as in no way should you be punished for helping when on leave that was requested a few months beforehand.
Oh in future dont answer work calls when on leave at all, tell them your phone broke, dog ate it or whatever, they have no right to be bothering you when on approved leave.

Ash.J.Williams · 01-07-2021 3:56pm

slo007 wrote: »

Hello,

I was on approved leave and an activity which was planned for 2 days after I planned to return occurred early, whilst I was away. I answered my phone throughout the activity and it went well without a hitch.

Nevertheless, instead of getting the expected congratulations, my manager told me off for being on leave, having lack of ownership, being hard to reach, etc. and that I should have cancelled my leave, etc.

I disagreed with the arguments and he told me I was being defensive.

I suspect this will come up again at year-end.

Should I follow up now? How can I do so from a position that makes sense? Should it be in writing or verbal?

Can the business expect someone to drop everything (holidays) on the spot and without notice?

getting all to normal now

Hooked · 01-07-2021 3:56pm

Supercell wrote: »

Sounds like your manager is being a power mad dick.
I'd be talking to HR about this as in no way should you be pushished for helping when on leave that was requested a few months beforehand.
Oh in future dont answer work calls when on leave at all, tell them your phone broke, dog ate it or whatever, they have no right to be bothering you when on approved leave.

Better still - tell them that you saw the call... but you were on féckin' leave!

Ash.J.Williams · 01-07-2021 3:56pm

Telly wrote: »

Why did you answer calls on your day off?

in 2021 things need sorting asap and can't wait for key people to return

sad but true

Potatoeman · 01-07-2021 4:26pm

Depends on your job, how many projects you have and how high profile they are. You’re entitled to leave but they can get you to move it. You can negotiate losses on deposits and flights if it was already approved.

I worked with someone that arranged something then went on leave with no handover. Their manager had to agree a project handover to me which meant I got a portion of their annual bonus. They didn’t contact him at all but was told the situation would be reflected in his review when he returned. So it depends how things happen.

01-07-2021 4:52pm

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

in 2021 things need sorting asap and can't wait for key people to return

sad but true

In 2021 if you go on leave and stay out of contact, the company will still be there when you get back. The reality is most people are not really that "key" at all. People shouldn't be working while on PTO and a manager who punishes employees for not working hard enough while on PTO is garbage. I would not work for someone like that under any circumstances.

Mrs OBumble · 01-07-2021 5:03pm

slo007 wrote: »

Hello,

I was on approved leave and an activity which was planned for 2 days after I planned to return occurred early, whilst I was away. I answered my phone throughout the activity and it went well without a hitch.

What level are you at?

If you're a VP or MD or a C-level exec, then your manager is right. And yes, they do own your soul.

If you're middle management, you need to learn to delegate so you don't get caught owning stuff. And you need to manage relationships better so that stuff isn't changed at the last minute on you.

If you're a project manager, then suck it up: owning stuff is what you do.

If you're a clerical officer, PA, admin assistant, General operative etc, then the other posters here are right.

LapsypaCork · 01-07-2021 5:06pm

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Document your recall of the meeting now on paper for your own use, sign and date it and then request a meeting with HR and your manager to seek clarification of the company policy to such issues so that you can be a team player.
You can use the notes as an aide memoir during the meeting but don't part with it.

I agree that the above would the best route, also outline the pointers you made earlier such as, how long ago the leave was arranged but your under absolutely no obligation to state why you needed the leave.
Maybe wait a day or 2, no longer, definitely request a sit down meeting and include a 3rd person, such as HR, under no circumstances have a one to one with your boss, he may twist the story. Indeed, it could come up in your annual review so best sort it out now. Also, if you let this incident go, your creating a precedent…

SunnySundays · 01-07-2021 5:30pm

Dear Manager,

Further to our conversation last week where you expressed disappointment with me, raised concerns I wasn't a team player etc. (list all of the complaints), I am seeking to understand the situation better so I can take the learnings from it.

As you know I booked my annual leave in April for a specific reason/requirement I had on Xth of June.

Despite the fact I was on annual leave, I'm sure you will agree that I facilitated several calls (document them all - time & duration) during the day to provide you with as much support as possible even though I was supposed to be on a day off. I also understand from other colleagues that the event was a resounding success and in no way negatively impacted by my leave.

Can you please advise as to what you think I should do differently going forward as I am extremely disappointed to receive negative feedback, especially considering I made myself available by phone on the day to support you in every possible way. I am keen to avoid similar situations in future.

Kind Regards,
X

Elwood_Blues · 01-07-2021 5:35pm

SunnySundays wrote: »

Dear Manager,

Further to our conversation last week where you expressed disappointment with me, raised concerns I wasn't a team player etc. (list all of the complaints), I am seeking to understand the situation better so I can take the learnings from it.

As you know I booked my annual leave in April for a specific reason/requirement I had on Xth of June.

Despite the fact I was on annual leave, I'm sure you will agree that I facilitated several calls (document them all - time & duration) during the day to provide you with as much support as possible even though I was supposed to be on a day off. I also understand from other colleagues that the event was a resounding success and in no way negatively impacted by my leave.

Can you please advise as to what you think I should do differently going forward as I am extremely disappointed to receive negative feedback, especially considering I made myself available by phone on the day to support you in every possible way. I am keen to avoid similar situations in future.

Kind Regards,
X

You forgot, P.S. Kindly go Fu(k yourself

01-07-2021 5:39pm

Potatoeman wrote: »

Depends on your job, how many projects you have and how high profile they are. You’re entitled to leave but they can get you to move it. You can negotiate losses on deposits and flights if it was already approved.

I worked with someone that arranged something then went on leave with no handover. Their manager had to agree a project handover to me which meant I got a portion of their annual bonus. They didn’t contact him at all but was told the situation would be reflected in his review when he returned. So it depends how things happen.

That's also ludicrous.

Mimon · 01-07-2021 5:39pm

I'd be asking for a full days pay and and the day's holiday back for being disturbed and having to take calls on one of the days my leave.

Manager is living in lala land if he thinks you have done anything wrong and needs to be taken down a peg.

SunnySundays · 01-07-2021 5:40pm

Elwood_Blues wrote: »

You forgot, P.S. Kindly go Fu(k yourself

That's in white font underneath!!!

01-07-2021 5:42pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

What level are you at?

If you're a VP or MD or a C-level exec, then your manager is right. And yes, they do own your soul.

If you're middle management, you need to learn to delegate so you don't get caught owning stuff. And you need to manage relationships better so that stuff isn't changed at the last minute on you.

If you're a project manager, then suck it up: owning stuff is what you do.

If you're a clerical officer, PA, admin assistant, General operative etc, then the other posters here are right.

Ignore all this ( as usual). Booked leave is booked leave "C-Level" or not. Project manager or not.

These people just need to have a replacement set up.

In this case its all moot anyway as the event was re-arranged in one day and the OP was actually on the call. Complaining in that situation is insane..

Mimon · 01-07-2021 5:44pm

I've cancelled a week of leave voluntarily because we were swamped and would be leaving one colleague to cope on their own. Not for the company but for my colleagues sake.

Company didn't want to assign another person to be cross trained so they created the situation where I had to do this.

BrianD3 · 01-07-2021 5:52pm

It is completely unacceptable behaviour from this boss. If it is the first time it or something equally bad has happened then I might write it off as someone losing their composure due to pressure. It would be an idea as suggested here to take a polite approach, explain and document the situation and ask for feedback and a constructive path forward. While also documenting it in your own Bullying and Harassment notebook that you keep at home.

If it happens again, you know you have a problem and will need to push back (most people don't like doing this) and let the employer know that this is unacceptable. If you don't let them know, as far as I'm aware it weakens any case you may take further down the line.

01-07-2021 5:55pm

Mimon wrote: »

I've cancelled a week of leave voluntarily because we were swamped and would be leaving one colleague to cope on their own. Not for the company but for my colleagues sake.

Company didn't want to assign another person to be cross trained so they created the situation where I had to do this.

While I would feel sorry for your colleague, you cancelling your leave just lets your employer off the hook for not cross training anyone.

In my experience it's best to let things fall flat on their face and when the employer complains just point to the numerous emails sent highlighting that the issue had been raised previously and they ignored all communication.

MonkieSocks · 01-07-2021 8:14pm

OP back up your phone call Log, so you have a record that the calls you received, were received while you were on approved leave.

If the leave approval was in any written form or email, back that up to your computer too

0ph0rce0 · 01-07-2021 8:36pm

I bet if it was your manager on leave and yous called them they'd be telling you to kindly piss off and deal with someone else in the company.

Then when they get back in the office they'd be walking around scoffing and talking crap to all the hierarchy about getting phone calls and how the team can't cope without them.

Surely the managers job here is to manage. If one or more of the team is away then they should be able to step up and jump in on any project to get things done without having to interrupt peoples personal time off.

But most likely like 99.9% of these so called managers they couldn't cross a street without holding somebody's hand. All show and no substance.

slo007 · 01-07-2021 8:48pm

SunnySundays wrote: »

Dear Manager,

Further to our conversation last week where you expressed disappointment with me, raised concerns I wasn't a team player etc. (list all of the complaints), I am seeking to understand the situation better so I can take the learnings from it.

(...)

This is great. Thank you. My only challenge is that it puts the onus on me to change, whereas I feel I did nothing wrong. The project was a success. Everyone reached me as necessary.

I'm also concerned it admits guilt which I think makes it easy for them to give that year-end low score I'm trying to avoid.

marcuslally2 · 01-07-2021 8:54pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

What level are you at?

If you're a VP or MD or a C-level exec, then your manager is right. And yes, they do own your soul.

If you're middle management, you need to learn to delegate so you don't get caught owning stuff. And you need to manage relationships better so that stuff isn't changed at the last minute on you.

If you're a project manager, then suck it up: owning stuff is what you do.

If you're a clerical officer, PA, admin assistant, General operative etc, then the other posters here are right.

Complete and utter drivel.

Posts like this give the Internet a bad name

slo007 · 01-07-2021 8:57pm

BrianD3 wrote: »

If it happens again, you know you have a problem and will need to push back (most people don't like doing this) and let the employer know that this is unacceptable. If you don't let them know, as far as I'm aware it weakens any case you may take further down the line.

This is the second time he said something awkward. I don't want to explain too much here to avoid giving away more information than needed or desired. I raised my concerns verbally with another boss last time, but I suspect it stopped there.

In prior jobs I never raised complaints and eventually left for other opportunities. I don't know if making formal complaints would have helped; but being quiet about misgivings didn't help either.

This time I feel some red lines are being crossed and am more willing to put things in writing. But I want to take the correct approach (I don't know what that is, which is why I'm here...). That is, I want to have some insight of the outcomes in the end. Perhaps preserving the year-end bonus might be enough?

slo007 · 01-07-2021 9:00pm

Telly wrote: »

Why did you answer calls on your day off?

I have a unique skill set no one else in the company has, worldwide.

I was trying to help

wench · 01-07-2021 9:36pm

Are you Liam Neeson?

SunnySundays · 01-07-2021 9:37pm

slo007 wrote: »

This is great. Thank you. My only challenge is that it puts the onus on me to change, whereas I feel I did nothing wrong. The project was a success. Everyone reached me as necessary.

I'm also concerned it admits guilt which I think makes it easy for them to give that year-end low score I'm trying to avoid.

Your boss is an incompetent, asshole with limited,if any, managerial skills, based on how he handled the situation.

My thinking behind the email is that it covers your ass if things escalate.

1. It sets out a record on the situation

2. It's written in a way that dismisses his claim that you are defensive (I know it's bull**** but it illustrates you as a person who wants to learn, wants to avoid it again etc. You can use this to demonstrate to HR or anyone else you need to in future if he scores you badly in your review or causes any future issues for you)

3. It gives him an opportunity to climb down from his nonsense rather than escalating the situation (he probably won't take it but again it demonstrates to HR you sought to professionally resolve things etc)

4. It also requires a response and if he's as stupid as he comes across, he may even hang himself if stupid enough to respond in writing if he includes any negativity at all.

He's on 2 strikes here, you explain the first incident you tried to resolve things with a chat, the second you felt like you needed to record it & sought to resolve it. There will be a 3rd incident and that's when you escalate it, knowing that you have a record to prove you sought to resolve the situation at every stage and he's the problem not you.

Cover your ass and portray yourself as the more professional in handling things.

wench · 01-07-2021 9:40pm

Has this dependence on you as the only one with this skill-set been flagged at any risk reviews?
It should have been, and any failure to provide cover would reflect poorly on your manager had the project gone wrong in your absence.

This is something that should be addressed as a priority - as my boss keeps reminding me, you could get hit by a bus tomorrow!

NewbridgeIR · 01-07-2021 9:52pm

slo007 wrote: »

I have a unique skill set no one else in the company has, worldwide.

I was trying to help

Do you have a separate work mobile?

If yes, then it should be turned off when you are on annual leave.

If no, then ask your employer to provide one.

FishOnABike · 01-07-2021 10:30pm

slo007 wrote: »

I have a unique skill set no one else in the company has, worldwide.

I was trying to help

And still your manager allows a work event to be rescheduled without prior notice, when you were already on leave and even though you interrupted your leave to deal with matters over the phone yet your manager feels you are responsible for not being there ? I don't have to explain how rediculous their attitude is.

I would put the facts to your manager in an email, station that you applied for leave from Xth June to Yth June inclusive on whatever date in April, this was approved on whatever date. The event was scheduled to be on (Y+2)th June and your leave had been scheduled with this in mind. While you were already on leave the event was rescheduled to conflict with your leave and though you were unable to attend in person you did oblige by being available and responding by phone even though you were on leave.

Put the onus on you manager by putting it to them that you would have preferred to attend the event in person and ask how they suggest such scheduling conflicts could be avoided in future. (It's damn obvious - don't reschedule events without prior notice / agreement when you already know key people will not be available!)

If it was brought up in any negative way a performance review I would consider refusing to sign the review until it (and any negative effect on rating) was removed and accepted as a positive - being a true team player, willing to put yourself out and being willing to go the extra mile and put the company first. If they still hold it against you and are unwilling to budge I'd escalate it to HR.

If you have unique skills in the company you are in a position of strength.

Your manager can either make having a skilled team player on their team a plus for themselves or if they make an issue of what is their poor scheduling ability and lack of awareness they might end up shooting themselves in the foot.

confusedeire · 01-07-2021 11:49pm

Mimon wrote: »

I've cancelled a week of leave voluntarily because we were swamped and would be leaving one colleague to cope on their own. Not for the company but for my colleagues sake.

Company didn't want to assign another person to be cross trained so they created the situation where I had to do this.

really you created the situation where you had to do this!

Mimon · 02-07-2021 12:04am

confusedeire wrote: »

really you created the situation where you had to do this!

Weird comment. Typical boards turning something good some did into a negative.

Management were terrible/dysfunctional at the time and wouldn't have a contingency in place for increase in workload/people going on leave/people getting sick. I like the job so didn't want to leave, there were no jobs out there at the time in any case.

I'm close with my colleague and couldn't leave them in that situation but somehow it is my fault :rolleyes:

topdecko · 02-07-2021 8:34am

I think the OP needs to draw a line in the sand here. You were put in an invidious position due to the quick rearrangement of an important work related activity to a time when you were on leave - a leave that was approved and booked 3 months in advance. You interrupted your leave to deal with the situation and then get a bollicking from the manager.. it is pretty poor management tbh and should be called out.
I would have a chat to said manager and explain your frustration. If that not working then an email thread on topic - not a complaint but rather a presentation of facts.
Some pretty simplistic response here at times to this scenario - real life situations are usually more nuanced than "leave means leave" etc. Depending on your role, work environment and so forth...i have had to cancel leave at short notice in past to cover for people... thats life...sometimes you have to take it on the chin. Also not sure i could enjoy leave if i felt colleagues were getting shafted, but then maybe i am just a sucker

Mike Murdock · 02-07-2021 8:52am

Mimon wrote: »

Weird comment. Typical boards turning something good some did into a negative.

Management were terrible/dysfunctional at the time and wouldn't have a contingency in place for increase in workload/people going on leave/people getting sick. I like the job so didn't want to leave, there were no jobs out there at the time in any case.

I'm close with my colleague and couldn't leave them in that situation but somehow it is my fault :rolleyes:

Not your fault, but by bailing them out, your management learned nothing.

This is the problem. NEVER cancel your own annual leave for the company. Remember, you are just a number on a spreadsheet and they will can you without any thought if they have to.

Mrs OBumble · 02-07-2021 10:17am

Mimon wrote: »

I'm close with my colleague and couldn't leave them in that situation but somehow it is my fault :rolleyes:

You must have missed the memo: you're supposed to hate your colleagues and want to spend as little time as possible with them.

According to boards posters anyways

AmberGold · 02-07-2021 11:18am

Boss sounds like an emotive twit. Don't attend anymore calls when on leave, get away from this Manager he's toxic.

In the meantime I'd draft an email to him laying out the facts and summarising your confusion + disappointment with the way this matter was dealt with. Get something on record.

Told off for being on leave

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