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Murder at the Cottage | Sky

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  • #1292
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,497 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Mackinac wrote: »
    I think back then a lot of holiday homes would have been fairly easy to get in to especially the more simple and basic (but stylised) ones in West Cork. I guess the flashier ones now have triple locked doors and smart security but not so much in 1996.

    Yeah, I'd expect anyone determined would get in - but to get in without leaving any signs of forced entry?
    Would that take a bit of know how \ access to a key?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #1293
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,557 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Mackinac wrote: »
    Just came across this regarding the wine, from The Independent, December,2011
    One source close to the investigation recalled that, at the time, alcohol was often stolen from the drinks cabinets of empty holiday homes.
    This takes me back again to thinking a couple having an affair might want to use the cottage for a couple of hours. Maybe they had a habit of going to empty holiday homes. Sophie thought someone had been using her cottage while she was away.
    why would they throw it away?. i think the person using her home was a homeless person or semi homeless and took the wine and dumped it because they didn't have a corkscrew, nowhere to get one, and didn't want to be lugging it around


  • #1294
    Mackinac
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 195 ✭✭Mackinac


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Yeah, I'd expect anyone determined would get in - but to get in without leaving any signs of forced entry?
    Would that take a bit of know how \ access to a key?
    Depends on the house I guess. A friend of mine got locked out her house some years ago while the window cleaners happened to be there. One of the window cleaners broke in for her, whilst grateful she was also rather alarmed at the speed and execution with which he did it. As you say if you know what you’re doing.


  • #1295
    ingalway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 683 ✭✭✭ingalway


    am_zarathustra wrote: »
    Has anyone read the book by Foster, Murder at Roaringwater.....half tempted to buy it but he seems to have made his mind up regardless.
    I've read it. It's pretty good. He had huge access to Bailey over a period of time and then did some work with Jim Sheridan and Donal McIntyre later on. He interviewed more people than either the West Cork podcast or the Sky programme and there is a piece near the end that I have never heard before, which, if true, really points to Bailey being guilty. Worth the read.


  • #1296
    Yurt2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    ingalway wrote: »
    I've read it. It's pretty good. He had huge access to Bailey over a period of time and then did some work with Jim Sheridan and Donal McIntyre later on. He interviewed more people than either the West Cork podcast or the Sky programme and there is a piece near the end that I have never heard before, which, if true, really points to Bailey being guilty. Worth the read.


    What's the gist?


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  • #1297
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,557 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ingalway wrote: »
    I've read it. It's pretty good. He had huge access to Bailey over a period of time and then did some work with Jim Sheridan and Donal McIntyre later on. He interviewed more people than either the West Cork podcast or the Sky programme and there is a piece near the end that I have never heard before, which, if true, really points to Bailey being guilty. Worth the read.
    spill. i looked through it in a bookshop. At one point he gave the impression bailey has some sort of control over jules


  • #1298
    ShamNNspace
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,978 ✭✭✭ShamNNspace


    SoulWriter wrote: »
    why would they throw it away?. i think the person using her home was a homeless person or semi homeless and took the wine and dumped it because they didn't have a corkscrew, nowhere to get one, and didn't want to be lugging it around

    Not having a corkscrew never stopped me opening a bottle of wine


  • #1299
    Mackinac
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 195 ✭✭Mackinac


    SoulWriter wrote: »
    why would they throw it away?. i think the person using her home was a homeless person or semi homeless and took the wine and dumped it because they didn't have a corkscrew, nowhere to get one, and didn't want to be lugging it around

    Maybe they couldn’t go back home with the unopened bottle of wine they were seen leaving the house with.


  • #1300
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,557 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Mackinac wrote: »
    Maybe they couldn’t go back home with the unopened bottle of wine they were seen leaving the house with.
    maybe i'm thinking more of someone who does not have a home or much privacy. If you're walking and have no pocket it might be annoying to carry or they didn't want to be seen with it. maybe a car approached


  • #1301
    Mackwiss
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 83 ✭✭Mackwiss


    Yurt! wrote: »
    A couple having an affair...hmmm

    Who could that be? Could it be the couple that supposedly went to a beach to spend a night?

    Not to mention giving false clues to the Gardai through phone calls but also being in the spotlight giving statements and counter statements is well known to be a behavioral trait from murderers

    More and more convinced MF and her supposed lover went to the cottage to spend the night. Tried to break in, Sophie heard them opens the door a fight ensues and we know what happens next. MF could've been in the car this whole time while the "lover" went to check the house and he gave her strict instructions to not mention anything about going to the cottage. The news break out and the "lover" we now know would brutally kill another person keeps MF under control in a web of lies. If this is the case 100% he's still alive and controlling her


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  • #1302
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,557 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Mackwiss wrote: »
    Who could that be? Could it be the couple that supposedly went to a beach to spend a night?
    never heard this, when did it happen?


  • #1303
    Mackwiss
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 83 ✭✭Mackwiss


    SoulWriter wrote: »
    never heard this, when did it happen?

    MF mentioned I think on JS documentary she and her "friend" went to Barleycove Beach and then returned and saw the man at the bridge...


  • #1304
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,497 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Mackwiss wrote: »
    Who could that be? Could it be the couple that supposedly went to a beach to spend a night?

    Not to mention giving false clues to the Gardai through phone calls but also being in the spotlight giving statements and counter statements is well known to be a behavioral trait from murderers

    More and more convinced MF and her supposed lover went to the cottage to spend the night. Tried to break in, Sophie heard them opens the door a fight ensues and we know what happens next. MF could've been in the car this whole time while the "lover" went to check the house and he gave her strict instructions to not mention anything about going to the cottage. The news break out and the "lover" we now know would brutally kill another person keeps MF under control in a web of lies. If this is the case 100% he's still alive and controlling her

    Snap... the same angle is starting to occur to me.
    It ties into Sophie thinking someone used property while she was away.

    But how would they access the cottage while Sophie was away without leaving obvious signs of entry?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #1305
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,557 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Mackwiss wrote: »
    MF mentioned I think on JS documentary she and her "friend" went to Barleycove Beach and then returned and saw the man at the bridge...
    Sorry I misunderstood, thought you meant another couple


  • #1306
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,497 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Mackwiss wrote: »
    MF mentioned I think on JS documentary she and her "friend" went to Barleycove Beach and then returned and saw the man at the bridge...

    Dubious... in December even in a car most of the tine that sounds like recipe for hypothermia.
    Suggests the angle re using a vacant holiday home...
    Could hardly check into a hotel / b&b without rumours spreading.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #1307
    irishgeo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,731 ✭✭✭irishgeo


    Why does bailey say he doesn't know Sophie or where she lives in episode 1 of Netflix but later on either in episode 1 or 2 say he was supposed to do some gardening for her.
    He must have known her for her to ask him to some gardening for her and to find out where she lived to actually get there.


  • #1308
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,497 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    irishgeo wrote: »
    Why does bailey say he doesn't know Sophie or where she lives in episode 1 of Netflix but later on either in episode 1 or 2 say he was supposed to do some gardening for her.
    He must have known her for her to ask him to some gardening for her and to find out where she lived to actually get there.

    Not necessarily... he could know 'of her' and may not have been asked directly by her?
    Would have a rough idea of where she lives but not its exact spot?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #1309
    Mackwiss
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 83 ✭✭Mackwiss


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Snap... the same angle is starting to occur to me.
    It ties into Sophie thinking someone used property while she was away.

    But how would they access the cottage while Sophie was away without leaving obvious signs of entry?

    As explained before, an old cottage, old locks, old windows, way easier to open than modern locks if it's common practice.

    Looking for a hidden key which was common back then and entering even?

    Happened to me that some folks found the hidden key of a family property, completely vandalized it on purpose, spend the night in it, then close and locked the door and left the key in the same place. From outside it looked like nothing had happened at all until you turn the key.

    Not to mention what's told numerous times that back then most people didn't think of locking themselves in their houses as it was that peaceful.


  • #1310
    irishgeo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,731 ✭✭✭irishgeo


    Mackwiss wrote: »
    Who could that be? Could it be the couple that supposedly went to a beach to spend a night?

    Not to mention giving false clues to the Gardai through phone calls but also being in the spotlight giving statements and counter statements is well known to be a behavioral trait from murderers

    More and more convinced MF and her supposed lover went to the cottage to spend the night. Tried to break in, Sophie heard them opens the door a fight ensues and we know what happens next. MF could've been in the car this whole time while the "lover" went to check the house and he gave her strict instructions to not mention anything about going to the cottage. The news break out and the "lover" we now know would brutally kill another person keeps MF under control in a web of lies. If this is the case 100% he's still alive and controlling her

    one flaw in this is if the car was up near the house there would be tyre tracks. It's a sandy road. Looks like a narrow road too. Your not turning around unless you drive up to Sophie house or the neighbours house. The only option is to reverse down the road.

    The guards might not be able to establish whose tyre tracks they were but they would have known a car was in the vicinity.


  • #1311
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,497 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    irishgeo wrote: »
    one flaw in this is if the car was up near the house there would be tyre tracks. It's a sandy road. Looks like a narrow road too. Your not turning around unless you drive up to Sophie house or the neighbours house. The only option is to reverse down the road.

    The guards might not be able to establish whose tyre tracks they were but they would have known a car was in the vicinity.

    Would they or would they have destroyed the tracks when they went to the cottage?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • #1312
    Mackwiss
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 83 ✭✭Mackwiss


    irishgeo wrote: »
    one flaw in this is if the car was up near the house there would be tyre tracks. It's a sandy road. Looks like a narrow road too. Your not turning around unless you drive up to Sophie house or the neighbours house. The only option is to reverse down the road.

    The guards might not be able to establish whose tyre tracks they were but they would have known a car was in the vicinity.

    there's at least three sets of tires in the picture once the body is discovered. The one from the car of the person that found the body, the Gardai and the priest. And it's not at dirt road by the pictures seen afaik


  • #1313
    Icantthinkof1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 410 ✭✭Icantthinkof1


    It doesn’t make sense that a couple came to Sophie’s cottage that night. They would have seen the lights on in her house and a car in the driveway so would have known it wasn’t unoccupied; even if they had been using her house before


  • #1314
    Mackinac
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 195 ✭✭Mackinac


    irishgeo wrote: »
    one flaw in this is if the car was up near the house there would be tyre tracks. It's a sandy road. Looks like a narrow road too. Your not turning around unless you drive up to Sophie house or the neighbours house. The only option is to reverse down the road.

    The guards might not be able to establish whose tyre tracks they were but they would have known a car was in the vicinity.
    If someone was trying to break in would they have driven all the way right up to the cottage though where they could have been heard by the neighbours? If they wanted to sneak up maybe they would have left their car further down the road. Otherwise, if they had parked their car right outside the cottage the struggle wouldn’t have happened down the lane?


  • #1315
    Mackinac
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 195 ✭✭Mackinac


    Icantthinkof1 wrote: »
    It doesn’t make sense that a couple came to Sophie’s cottage that night. They would have seen the lights on in her house and a car in the driveway so would have known it wasn’t unoccupied; even if they had been using her house before

    Were there lights on?


  • #1316
    Gussie Scrotch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    Has anybody read "murder at Roaringwater" by Nick Foster?

    Apparently, he concludes that IB is guilty of the murder and that he has left a clue in the book that only Bailey will recognise, indicating that he knows.

    Sounds a bit strange to me...if he has some information that clarifies the mystery, then he should take it to the Authorities no?

    Maybe just a hook to sell the book, but intriguing.............


  • #1317
    Weddings ahoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 ✭Weddings ahoy


    Icantthinkof1 wrote: »
    It doesn’t make sense that a couple came to Sophie’s cottage that night. They would have seen the lights on in her house and a car in the driveway so would have known it wasn’t unoccupied; even if they had been using her house before

    Agree, her car was parked outside even if there was no lights on, and if it was a full moon even if they were approaching house with lights dimmed they would have seen her car as it was above their approach,
    I still don't believe MF was even out that night, never mind the untraceable mystery man she was with...im guessing she was a bit of a busybody who inserted herself into the story, if Sophie was in her shop browsing why was M looking out the window long enough to take note of a person's height, features ,clothes and headwear, why not be focused on someone you didn't know inside your shop, shouldn't it be more plausible that the stranger inside her store would be of more interest ?


  • #1318
    Weddings ahoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 ✭Weddings ahoy


    Gussie Scrotch wrote: »
    Has anybody read "murder at Roaringwater" by Nick Foster?

    Apparently, he concludes that IB is guilty of the murder and that he has left a clue in the book that only Bailey will recognise, indicating that he knows.

    Sounds a bit strange to me...if he has some information that clarifies the mystery, then he should take it to the Authorities no?

    Maybe just a hook to sell the book, but intriguing.............

    Yes i have read it, its quite good he interviewed a few ppl I hadn't heard mention of before,
    I think the clue he alluded to is as you say a hook, can't imagine its anything that will solve the case ,
    He feels he has identified a link between IB and Sophie that show they definitely met or conversed, although IB has always denied ever meeting her, it's something i have always doubted about him, perhaps by admitting he once vaguely met her it might provide guards with another angle so probably not in his best interest,
    Yes book is well worth a read, i will most likely re read again


  • #1319
    bb12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 888 ✭✭✭bb12


    after watching the NF doc I think I'm leaning more towards IB now. The scratches on his head and arms are pretty telling. he tries to explain it away by saying he was cutting down the top of a pine tree for christmas and got the scatches when climbing it to cut off the top...but pine tees don't have needles that would scratch you...also if you were up a tree in december you'd be wearing a jacket with long sleeves because of the cold, so even less likely to get any scratches from softer pine as opposed to wrestling with someone in a briars bush...also his explanation of how killing a turkey caused the scratch on his forehead doesn't gel with me...and interestingly he says that sophie's house was 2 or 3 km away but only about 1 mile as the crow flies.


  • #1320
    Shelga
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,054 ✭✭✭Shelga


    I’ve watched all of the Jim Sheridan doc, and the first episode of the Netflix one, and all I can say with certainty right now is that the West Cork podcast leaves them both in the dust.


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  • #1321
    Yurt2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Weddings ahoy wrote: »
    Yes i have read it, its quite good he interviewed a few ppl I hadn't heard mention of before,
    I think the clue he alluded to is as you say a hook, can't imagine its anything that will solve the case ,
    He feels he has identified a link between IB and Sophie that show they definitely met or conversed, although IB has always denied ever meeting her, it's something i have always doubted about him, perhaps by admitting he once vaguely met her it might provide guards with another angle so probably not in his best interest,
    Yes book is well worth a read, i will most likely re read again


    Was it Bailey mentioning the Indian goddess Kari en passant to the media? Sophie apparently was into Hinduism and was writing something about that goddess.


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