Working From Home Megathread

Antares35 · 28-06-2021 6:06pm

2lazytogetup wrote: »

i think some people wanting to work from home are being selfless (not selfish), means they can have family time and save money on commuting.

but i think long term consequences of being home all day must have a toll on their mental health. going out and meeting people is what we humans need to do.

i feel bad for spending less time with my children when i go to hybrid model. but i cant take care of kids if i cant take care of myself.

id say office employers know this and can see long term effects of 100% home working. they risk people leaving for companies wfh 5 days. but i dont think they think this is going to happen.

many people seen first hand people up sticks from dublin to move to the West and commute to dublin 1 or 2 days a week?

I agree that we can't stay stuck at home all day, but that's a lockdown issue not a WFH issue. No reason at all why we can't go out and meet a friend for a coffee or walk/cycle when the working day is finished. I think some people's view of WFH has been coloured because their first experience of it took place in the context of a pandemic. That won't be the norm in the future (we hope at least!). We can still leave the house, only difference is we don't need the office to house commute in between.

I've been offered total flexibility in terms of office/ home days so I will likely do 1-2 office based. My fiancé was offered 60:40 hybrid. So we are upping sticks (I never wanted to live in Dublin anyway) and looking at buying somewhere we can commute from, ideally on a train line. A long commute two days a week seems a good tradeoff for me

_Kaiser_ · 28-06-2021 9:33pm

2lazytogetup wrote: »

i think some people wanting to work from home are being selfless (not selfish), means they can have family time and save money on commuting.

but i think long term consequences of being home all day must have a toll on their mental health. going out and meeting people is what we humans need to do.

Personally speaking, I'm quite happy WFH indefinitely - but then I have a separate room, proper desk and chair, 2 large monitors, and a job I could do from pretty much anywhere on the planet if I had a phone and laptop.

For me commuting to an office is a waste of time, money and energy that can be better spent actually getting on with my job. I don't use/rely on work as a social outlet, and while everyone I work with is great, the reality is that these people will almost all only ever be colleagues that you will never hear from again when/if you leave.

A recent staff survey has reflected the national trend of a clear majority wanting to retain the right to WFH full-time, or flexibility with only a small minority wanting a full-time return to office. Management seem to have taken this to heart and are examining the options to facilitate this, but then I'm told they've always been flexible in that regard so that's a positive.

Me I'll probably only go in when necessary (as generally defined by me), but beyond that I'll quite happily remain WFH and enjoy having more time, energy and options in the evening than sitting in traffic or being too knackered when I do get home.

But each to their own - and that for me is the key. It's a bit like those people who call radio stations complaining about what others are doing in regards covid rules - do what is right for you, but stop trying to dictate to others or complaining that they don't feel the same way about the issue you do.

Infoanon · 28-06-2021 10:02pm

Leo Varadker launched the 'makeremotework' campaign today.
The minister for trade and enterprise also confirmed that legislation to allow employees to request WFH is being worked on.

Both the minister and the ICTU both noted that WFH doesn't work for everyone but that it works for many.

The full details are on the RTE website, an article has also appeared in the Irish Times by Pilita Clark about 'the great resignation ' titled 'smart employers know there is no going back to the old ways'.

28-06-2021 10:52pm

Infoanon wrote: »

Leo Varadker launched the 'makeremotework' campaign today.
The minister for trade and enterprise also confirmed that legislation to allow employees to request WFH is being worked on.

Both the minister and the ICTU both noted that WFH doesn't work for everyone but that it works for many.

The full details are on the RTE website, an article has also appeared in the Irish Times by Pilita Clark about 'the great resignation ' titled 'smart employers know there is no going back to the old ways'.

He has certainly changed his tune. He came out with some awful stupid soundbites earlier on

“At the moment, it’s not a choice. Many want to return to the office, many want to continue to work from home or a remote hub local to where they live. Most want a blend.”

He said that remote working should be a matter of choice for the future, so long as businesses can run smoothly and service needs are met.

“We need to make sure we do not drift back to the office and the old normal just because it’s safe to do so. We need to seize this opportunity to create a new normal, a better normal,” he said.

“I’m asking employers to consider how they can make remote working a more permanent feature of life after the pandemic. Whether it means keeping home working and remote working as an option, or a blended model of home and the office, or working from the office and remote working hubs, now is the time for employers to speak to staff about works best for them and the company as a whole.”

This is good to see. I think even he has coped on to the fact that the horse has bolted on WFH, now its about making it as beneficial as possible.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/e1403-tanaiste-calls-on-employers-to-make-remote-working-a-much-bigger-part-of-life-after-covid-19/

Frank Bullitt · 29-06-2021 4:56pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I don't think any managers want you in so they can "keep an eye" on you - and besides that can be easily enough done with monitoring functions on your laptop (and those functions give actionable evidence more easily than direct personal observation).

But there are a host of other reasons, eg there are plenty of companies whose GDPR policies say that customer data will never leave company premises.

You have said previously in this thread that you would actively want to keep an eye on your team, and that WFH prevented you from doing that. So you are contradicting yourself on that one.

And the second bolded part made my skin crawl. You seem to just lack trust people to do their work, and if you are suggesting using monitoring software or functions, that tells me that you haven't really gotten your head in the game with how people work at all.

If you have to monitor staff with those kinds of functions, it sounds like a massive fail on your processes and work culture.

Thats me · 30-06-2021 10:51am

2lazytogetup wrote: »

but i think long term consequences of being home all day must have a toll on their mental health. going out and meeting people is what we humans need to do.

When these long term consequences should start appearing? Many people are already working remotely for a longer than one year. For myself i see only andvantages, not excluding mental and physical health too - disruptive noisy atmosphere will easier make you mad than your own comfortable silent workplace with ambient music playing when you need to concentrate on the work, i do not miss colleagues since i can see them every day in teams and i even was not exposed to any infection since March 2020 which was not the case while i was managed to visit office.

I'm living in 5 min walk from the office, but i see no single reason for myself to be back to office when and if all this covid story will finish.

Thats me · 30-06-2021 10:57am

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

If you have to monitor staff with those kinds of functions, it sounds like a massive fail on your processes and work culture.

Security reasons requiring this. Novadays it is often cloud-based AI would watch what happens on every office device in combination with periodic manual checks.

Sunny Disposition · 30-06-2021 11:03am

While I think WFH is inevitable and a positive, especially in Ireland given the population imbalance, there are going to be a lot of issues to negotiate.
Some people like to have company during the day and will miss that a lot. They'll also have more free time and for themselves they'll need to find ways to use that to socialise. That mightn't be very simple for some people, especially in rural areas. Also the State needs to prepare for big changes in population.

KaneToad · 30-06-2021 11:07am

2lazytogetup wrote: »

.

but i think long term consequences of being home all day must have a toll on their mental health. going out and meeting people is what we humans need to do.

I think you may be confusing what you need to do with what everyone needs to do. I don't have to go out and meet people during work hours. My mental health is fine with being at home.

limnam · 30-06-2021 11:11am

KaneToad wrote: »

I think you may be confusing what you need to do with what everyone needs to do. I don't have to go out and meet people during work hours. My mental health is fine with being at home.

To be honest I'm sure there's plenty of peoples mental health which has benefited from not been forced to interact with people they don't like/get on with in the office.

It's bloody fantastic!

FlubberJones · 30-06-2021 11:15am

The company I work for made a broadcast overnight, September 7th when there will be a BIG shift towards people being back in the office... all going to by hybrid of some sort but its great to have a date.

Looking forward to having some sort of structure AWAY from the house, and in the office, rather than room to room in the same building.

AdamD · 30-06-2021 11:25am

I see this thread is still the same. Anyone with an interest in working in the office gets immediately piled on.

limnam · 30-06-2021 11:29am

AdamD wrote: »

I see this thread is still the same. Anyone with an interest in working in the office gets immediately piled on.

Not true at all.

Only the people who want to work in the office and think everyone else should join them or want to enlighten us all why WFH = bad.

Mrs OBumble · 30-06-2021 11:53am

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

You have said previously in this thread that you would actively want to keep an eye on your team, and that WFH prevented you from doing that. So you are contradicting yourself on that one.

And the second bolded part made my skin crawl. You seem to just lack trust people to do their work, and if you are suggesting using monitoring software or functions, that tells me that you haven't really gotten your head in the game with how people work at all.

If you have to monitor staff with those kinds of functions, it sounds like a massive fail on your processes and work culture.

No, I said that WFH makes staff welfare checking a lot more difficult. Checking the current work is the easiest bit.

Those who think management is only about making sure that the work gets done have a very limited view. Growing capacity in the organisation is aslo required of most managers.

And if constant monitoring creeps you out, you're the one who is dreaming. It's happening in most jobs already, to some extent. With WFH, some companies have taken it further.

As regards knowing how people work: those who are good workers forget that not everyone is like them. I used to work for a government agency with 1200 staff nationwide. HR said on average every year there would be 6-10 people fired. They couldn't predict who it would be, or what the reason would be, but the rate was remarkably consistent.

Management approaches need to enable superstars to flourish, and average performers to perform (not everyone can be a star). But they also need to detect under-performers, and enable them to perform or at least minimise the harm they do.

Antares35 · 30-06-2021 1:12pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

No, I said that WFH makes staff welfare checking a lot more difficult. Checking the current work is the easiest bit.

Those who think management is only about making sure that the work gets done have a very limited view. Growing capacity in the organisation is aslo required of most managers.

And if constant monitoring creeps you out, you're the one who is dreaming. It's happening in most jobs already, to some extent. With WFH, some companies have taken it further.

As regards knowing how people work: those who are good workers forget that not everyone is like them. I used to work for a government agency with 1200 staff nationwide. HR said on average every year there would be 6-10 people fired. They couldn't predict who it would be, or what the reason would be, but the rate was remarkably consistent.

Management approaches need to enable superstars to flourish, and average performers to perform (not everyone can be a star). But they also need to detect under-performers, and enable them to perform or at least minimise the harm they do.

How is checking keyboard strokes related to staff welfare?

30-06-2021 1:28pm

Antares35 wrote: »

How is checking keyboard strokes related to staff welfare?

Exactly, some of us work smarter and can get a task done with far less effort than the bean counters have calculated for that task.

Then we can relax without the stress of hitting deadlines in limited time.

Keyboard tracking would be so counterproductive.

limnam · 30-06-2021 1:37pm

Antares35 wrote: »

How is checking keyboard strokes related to staff welfare?

Weak management come up with weak ideas.

None of what was mentioned above is hampered by WFH.

The only thing that's missing from the post is some utter nonsense about GDPR

limnam · 30-06-2021 1:46pm

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

You have said previously in this thread that you would actively want to keep an eye on your team, and that WFH prevented you from doing that. So you are contradicting yourself on that one.
.

I thought she said she wasn't a manager

Infoanon · 30-06-2021 3:23pm

Excellent article on the RTE website , 'here's why your boss really wants you back in the office ' by Prof Kevin Murphy, UL.

The article quashes the arguments put forward for returning to the office and questions 'performance management '.

JohnK · 30-06-2021 3:39pm

Infoanon wrote: »

Excellent article on the RTE website , 'here's why your boss really wants you back in the office ' by Prof Kevin Murphy, UL.

The article quashes the arguments put forward for returning to the office and questions 'performance management '.

Link: https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2021/0629/1232003-back-to-the-office-performance-management/

A Shaved Duck? · 30-06-2021 4:01pm

Infoanon wrote: »

Excellent article on the RTE website , 'here's why your boss really wants you back in the office ' by Prof Kevin Murphy, UL.

The article quashes the arguments put forward for returning to the office and questions 'performance management '.

To be fair its an opinion piece, what data was used to come up with his conclusions?

limnam · 30-06-2021 4:40pm

A Shaved Duck? wrote: »

To be fair its an opinion piece, what data was used to come up with his conclusions?

I'd like to know what data was used to come up with some of the nonsensical commentary from the anti wfh brigade in this thread.

Mrs OBumble · 30-06-2021 4:50pm

limnam wrote: »

I thought she said she wasn't a manager

I have not managed staff for 10 years.

But I know what a manager's generally job includes.

Not quite sure where people got the keystroke logging from. It's only one small component of remote worker monitoring.

If you can "work smarter" and do the job with fewer keystrokes - great. But in that case, do expect to be assigned additional work to occupy you for the rest of your contracted time.

Antares35 · 30-06-2021 6:02pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Not quite sure where people got the keystroke logging from. It's only one small component of remote worker monitoring.

If you can "work smarter" and do the job with fewer keystrokes - great. But in that case, do expect to be assigned additional work to occupy you for the rest of your contracted time.

Bah. If you work as a typist maybe. Who is to say you aren't using that time to research etc? We're not all sitting at computers clacking keys all day singing nine to five you know

30-06-2021 7:10pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I have not managed staff for 10 years.

But I know what a manager's generally job includes.

Not quite sure where people got the keystroke logging from. It's only one small component of remote worker monitoring.

If you can "work smarter" and do the job with fewer keystrokes - great. But in that case, do expect to be assigned additional work to occupy you for the rest of your contracted time.

Ah yes the "contracted time", something that for many jobs is simply irrelevant to your ability to complete the necessary tasks on time. Many jobs need to have "spare time" built in to cover situations where tasks can take much longer than usual, IT support being a classic example.
None of this has anything to do with WFHs so to try to make that shoe fit simply doesen't work.

Anyway, trying to load additional work onto others simply to make them busy for their contracted hours would simply cause people to burn out or vote with their feet.

A Shaved Duck? · 30-06-2021 9:03pm

limnam wrote: »

I'd like to know what data was used to come up with some of the nonsensical commentary from the anti wfh brigade in this thread.

I'm sure it's all opinion so no better than the article itself..lazy journalism at its finest.

I'm for wfh by the way never said otherwise but let's at least have sensible debate.

Mrs OBumble · 30-06-2021 9:06pm

Antares35 wrote: »

Bah. If you work as a typist maybe. Who is to say you aren't using that time to research etc? We're not all sitting at computers clacking keys all day singing nine to five you know

'Cos there are so many things you can be researching from home without using keystrokes or link clicks or reading pages of text.

limnam · 30-06-2021 9:21pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

'Cos there are so many things you can be researching from home without using keystrokes or link clicks or reading pages of text.

You have come out with some amount of claptrap over this thread.

But this is probably your best.

Install the "shaky mouse" app and waltz your way to promotion...

Infoanon · 30-06-2021 9:39pm

A Shaved Duck? wrote: »

To be fair its an opinion piece, what data was used to come up with his conclusions?

There are embedded links in the article to back up the conclusions.

The conclusions are fairly much in line with other recent articles on WFH.

baldbear · 30-06-2021 9:45pm

Got an update that our global offices will be opening in October. It will be voluntary to go back & anyone who isn't vaccinated must wear a covering and adhere to social distancing.

And of course our health is the companies number one priority (probably do a round of redundancies then in November)

Working From Home Megathread

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