Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI Read OP For Mod Warnings

ACitizenErased · 29-06-2021 11:12AM

LVA, VFI and RAI all saying they will reject the vaccinated only plan. Surely out the window now?

francogarbanzo · 29-06-2021 11:14AM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Better than nothing though?

If the choice is all pubs closed and shuttered ?

Why present a false dichotomy at all? There are more options than just keep businesses closed or institute a mandatory internal vaccine passport.

gozunda · 29-06-2021 11:14AM

facehugger99 wrote: »

There's a distinct lack of the usual Government clappy-seals on the thread since the leak last night - I wonder have even the slow lads in class figured out what some of us did 15 months ago?
Unfortunately in that time, individual businesses and entire sectors have been decimated. We are on course for 250billion of debt by the year end. What that means in real terms is sobering - we have crippled ourselves from being able to borrow our way out of the next recession and we have needlessly exposed ourselves to any raising of interests rates.
What have we gained for all this - **** all. With better management of hospitals and nursing homes we could have seen the same results for a tiny fraction of the costs. The Irish have exposed themselves as one of the most docile and easily controlled people on the planet.
We will all pay the price for this in the coming years - our kids will be still paying for this when they reach maturity.
Time to get our from under the beds and wake up to what's been done to the country

"Slow lads in the class" and other insults - tbf you describing anyone you disagree with using such bile and puerile language is certainly not unusual. But no matter

If you check facehugger - plenty of rational discussion- you may have missed it.

But What have we gained Facehugger? We have achieved one of the lowest overall death and case rates of our closest EU neighbours. And yes all countries have in incurred huge financial burdens to deal with the Pandemic. And yes we had mountains of debt long before Covid reared its ugly head in 2020.

The issue atm is that some have deliberately only taken the worst case scenario 'leaked' and ran off raving and screaming as if that the one and only thing is most definitely odd.

If you bother to check - the most "benign scenario" 'leaked gives figures in or about where we are at the moment and that seems to have completely flown over the heads of some

This from the IT (the figures are for 3 months - July August Sept)

The Irish Times understands the modelling estimates almost 13,000 hospital admissions over the three months, and more than 1,600 people in intensive care units (ICU) should the most pessimistic scenario play out.

(Vs)

The most benign scenario would see just over 1,500 admissions and 195 people in ICUs.

But hey why ignore that to whipp up even more frenzy?

charlie14 · 29-06-2021 11:15AM

bear1 wrote: »

To be fair, the poster said most, not all.
Also, does this justify delaying reopening?

The poster said most of the vulnerable are almost fully protected.
The 60 - 69 cohort are among the most vulnerable and most of them have only received one dose of AZ vaccine so most are not fully protected.
A further 2 weeks would see 600,000 more doses being administered which would result in most if not all that cohort being fully protected.

You appear to believe that is not a good reason for a delay, whereas I can see the reasoning for doing so.

The Nal · 29-06-2021 11:16AM

normanoffside wrote: »

The ultimate conspiracy theorist/tin-foil hatter was almost right in everything he said was going to happen this time a year ago.

https://twitter.com/sheik22032443/status/1355688425198919681

Nah they really weren't.

Leftwaffe · 29-06-2021 11:16AM

Responder XY wrote: »

What's being reported as the NPHET presentation is so outlandish, I don't understand how the cabinet doesn't feel required to reject it out of hand. There is no need for independent validation of this. Dogs on the street know that any independent review will reject the analysis.

They can't be let get away with pushing their agenda further by insulting the entire nation's intelligence. Time to open up and live with Covid.

They won't reject it out of hand because they are terrified of a situation even similar to January. If they get it independently reviewed it will cast doubt over NPHET and undermine them, in turn they will have to make decisions themselves and if there's one thing this gov don't want to do its make a decision.

SusanC10 · 29-06-2021 11:16AM

PhoneMain wrote: »

I'm one of those who, not so much as agreed with everything NPHET proposed but went along with it as they are the experts in public health that we have. I dont subscribe to the notion that some people have here that they are doing it for the power, Public Health in normal times is generally seen as a cushy enough number so I'm sure they'd prefer to return to that. I know the less high profile public health doctors who are on the ground would prefer life to return to normal! I wouldnt have thought they're getting extra compensation for the extra work, maybe they are.
Maybe theres a degree of groupthink ongoing in NPHET at the moment. I think the letter to the minister and NPHETs minutes should be released ASAP.

But even I'm struggling with the latest modelling. They're probably in touch with public health at a European level and maybe the fear is there. It's not widely reported but the hospitals are under pressure even now, some hospitals are asking for people not to be referred to the ED. This morning there was 278 on trolleys. I'm not defending NPHET saying this, I'm just speculating that this could be influencing their thinking.
At the end of the day, it's the governments call. Its up to them to balance the public health risk versus the needs of society and the econnomy.
They cant hide behind NPHETs advice, it's up to them to make the hard decisions. They were burned aat christmas but we have a fairly successful vaccine programme now that we didnt have 6 months ago.

But I also feel that we cant just say we are going to lockdown forever, at some point we have to start living with Covid. We cannot get to a point where we start locking down for things like flu... People are going to socialise anyway, in peoples homes if they cant do it in pubs & restaurants. surely a controlled environment would be better to allow people to mix than ghaving dozens going mad in peoples homes!
We wont be able to run the country if lockdown is our go to pandemic response.

I agree with all of this tbh.

We have complied with all the restrictions as for the most part we could see the logic and reasoning behind them. Some we didn't think went far enough at various points in time and made the decision to go further ourselves.

But none of this latest advice makes any sense to me so I would like to read NPHETs advice for myself.

We don't have any plans for indoor dining ourselves in the immediate future and I don't think that is really the point. What worries me is their reasoning and what other restrictions will be imposed because of it.

jester77 · 29-06-2021 11:17AM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Some new app being discussed now

What are they at in Ireland, why don't they use the official Corona App?

Here in Germany, to get into a restaurant/pub/cafe/etc you either need your vaccination certificate or a negative test result scanned into the official Corona app. The vaccination shows up 14 days after the second jab, and the rapid test, which you get for free at any of the multiple test centers, shows up 15 minutes after you get a test. The negative test result is valid for 48 hours. And when you show the cert, you then check in with the app by scanning a QR code at the entrance, and you will be later informed if someone who was there returned a positive test result.

sydthebeat · 29-06-2021 11:17AM

so when can we expect NPHET to release their modelling statistics for peer review?

Leftwaffe · 29-06-2021 11:17AM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Better than nothing though?

If the choice is all pubs closed and shuttered ?

Absolutely. I'd be for it but not on its own. We need to couple it with antigen testing, negative PCR or proof of recovery.

Not aimed at you but a more general question. What about people who can't get the vaccine for whatever reason? Are their social lives effectively over here?

Gael23 · 29-06-2021 11:18AM

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

I see the following on independent.ie

"Ministers will also consider whether the Government should just issue advice to unvaccinated people urging them not to dine indoors."

This is the only viable option. The idea of pubs checking people's vaccine certs is just insane.

Tony Holohan should resign if that happens and I think it is the only viable thing the government can do

castletownman · 29-06-2021 11:18AM

We need a protest outside the Dail, including blocking off a few routes with those beer-keg delivery lorries.

Although those sniveling cowards will probably be too afraid to even acknowledge the public outrage.

sydthebeat · 29-06-2021 11:18AM

vaccine apps are used worldwide.. should be quite simply to purchase the licence for immediate use here

namloc1980 · 29-06-2021 11:18AM

Leftwaffe wrote: »

They won't reject it out of hand because they are terrified of a situation even similar to January. If they get it independently reviewed it will cast doubt over NPHET and undermine them, in turn they will have to make decisions themselves and if there's one thing this gov don't want to do its make a decision.

Absolutely. If/when there is a review of how all this was handled both the government and NPHET can point to each other and lay off the blame.

Govt: we listened to the experts we put in place because we're not experts in this field. It's their fault.
NPHET members: We only provide guidance and advice to government, not decisions. It's their fault.

namloc1980 · 29-06-2021 11:19AM

sydthebeat wrote: »

vaccine apps are used worldwide.. should be quite simply to purchase the licence for immediate use here

What countries are using vaccine only status to access parts of society?

SusanC10 · 29-06-2021 11:19AM

jester77 wrote: »

What are they at in Ireland, why don't they use the official Corona App?

Here in Germany, to get into a restaurant/pub/cafe/etc you either need your vaccination certificate or a negative test result scanned into the official Corona app. The vaccination shows up 14 days after the second jab, and the rapid test, which you get for free at any of the multiple test centers, shows up 15 minutes after you get a test. The negative test result is valid for 48 hours. And when you show the cert, you then check in with the app by scanning a QR code at the entrance, and you will be later informed if someone who was there returned a positive test result.

That sounds reasonable and workable tbh. But NPHET seem to have an issue with rapid tests.

Leftwaffe · 29-06-2021 11:19AM

jester77 wrote: »

What are they at in Ireland, why don't they use the official Corona App?

Here in Germany, to get into a restaurant/pub/cafe/etc you either need your vaccination certificate or a negative test result scanned into the official Corona app. The vaccination shows up 14 days after the second jab, and the rapid test, which you get for free at any of the multiple test centers, shows up 15 minutes after you get a test. The negative test result is valid for 48 hours. And when you show the cert, you then check in with the app by scanning a QR code at the entrance, and you will be later informed if someone who was there returned a positive test result.

This is exactly what we need and people have been calling for this for ages. Sir Tony doesn't want antigen testing though and seems to prefer vaccine apartheid.

landofthetree · 29-06-2021 11:20AM

The Nal wrote: »

Nah they really weren't.

They were right about what would happen. ISAG types are talking about vaccines not working and we are highly unlikely to avoid restrictions continuing on this winter.

Beechwoodspark · 29-06-2021 11:20AM

If the choice is between

Hospitality closed up and shuttered with dust balls rolling past

Or the pub passport app to allow some trade

I’d say app worth a go?

sydthebeat · 29-06-2021 11:20AM

namloc1980 wrote: »

What countries are using vaccine only status to access parts of society?

you seem to have read my post incorrectly

daydorunrun · 29-06-2021 11:20AM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

LVA, VFI and RAI all saying they will reject the vaccinated only plan. Surely out the window now?

First you make them depend on supports- then you threaten to remove them.

Publicans have been very quiet over the last few months considering some have been shuttered for 400+ days. Their silence has been bought and paid for with cheap credit that future generations will pay for.

Forcing young people to give up part of their youth to protect the old and vulnerable, roll out vaccines to the older generations and then punish the younger ones who've had no access to a vaccine the majority don't actually need for health reasons.

The lunatics have taken over the asylum.

Leftwaffe · 29-06-2021 11:20AM

sydthebeat wrote: »

so when can we expect NPHET to release their modelling statistics for peer review?

Never. We just have to hope some big shot academic on Twitter calls it out for what it is and ends up on Primetime.

namloc1980 · 29-06-2021 11:21AM

jester77 wrote: »

What are they at in Ireland, why don't they use the official Corona App?

Here in Germany, to get into a restaurant/pub/cafe/etc you either need your vaccination certificate or a negative test result scanned into the official Corona app. The vaccination shows up 14 days after the second jab, and the rapid test, which you get for free at any of the multiple test centers, shows up 15 minutes after you get a test. The negative test result is valid for 48 hours. And when you show the cert, you then check in with the app by scanning a QR code at the entrance, and you will be later informed if someone who was there returned a positive test result.

That works in Germany and Denmark and other EU states because of rapid antigen tests. NPHET have an ideological opposition to them here so it's a non-runner. Philip Nolan called them "snake oil" if you remember at one point and Tony has been consistently opposed to antigen tests.

ACitizenErased · 29-06-2021 11:21AM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

If the choice is between

Hospitality closed up and shuttered with dust balls rolling past

Or the pub passport app to allow some trade

I’d say app worth a go?

LVA, VFI and RAI have all rightly said they won’t do it.

Hurrache · 29-06-2021 11:21AM

castletownman wrote: »

We need a protest outside the Dail, including blocking off a few routes with those beer-keg delivery lorries.

Although those sniveling cowards will probably be too afraid to even acknowledge the public outrage.

Go ahead and organise it so.

RobitTV · 29-06-2021 11:22AM

The publicans are fighting back. They've decided that is the final straw for them.

Beechwoodspark · 29-06-2021 11:22AM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

LVA, VFI and RAI have all rightly said they won’t do it.

So then shuttered up it is?

Talk about harming their own interest

seamus · 29-06-2021 11:22AM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

LVA, VFI and RAI all saying they will reject the vaccinated only plan. Surely out the window now?

They don't really get to reject any plan, they can only refuse to open. But there'll be no appetite to piss them off that much.

Most likely, as per the other thread, the official government advice will be that unvaccinated people should not sit indoors, without creating any obligation on places to check.

And to accommodate this, the opening will be pushed back to the 19th. Whereas if they were willing to get on board with this, they could have opened on Monday.

namloc1980 · 29-06-2021 11:22AM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

If the choice is between

Hospitality closed up and shuttered with dust balls rolling past

Or the pub passport app to allow some trade

I’d say app worth a go?

No vaccine, no entry? Massive legal and moral issues with that.

Hurrache · 29-06-2021 11:23AM

Leftwaffe wrote: »

seems to prefer vaccine apartheid.

Jesus, get off the cross with your apartheid comparisons.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI Read OP For Mod Warnings