Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Dempo1

Can some confirm if NPHET actually advised this Vacinated only re indoor dining/Pubs, or is it the case, they didn't object to this bizzare notion. I'm getting a sense of an impression NPHET actually recommended this but I'm not sure they actually did.

is_that_so

AdamD wrote: »

Also how do we get 7 months into the year before they propose an internal vaccine passport? I fundamentally disagree with the premise, but if they actually wanted to do it they should have been organising it months ago. This is the standard of planning that's deciding whether industries open or not, infuriating stuff.

It's not been planned because they never intended to do it but this latest NPHET missive is effectively forcing them into it, it's also not a government idea either. As a concept it's pretty unworkable.

is_that_so

Dempo1 wrote: »

Can some confirm if NPHET actually advised this Vacinated only re indoor dining/Pubs, or is it the case, they didn't object to this bizzare notion. I'm getting a sense the impression NPHET actually recommended this but I'm not sure they actually did.

Yeah, they have recommended this as a sop to the delay.

SusanC10

Dempo1 wrote: »

Can some confirm if NPHET actually advised this Vacinated only re indoor dining/Pubs, or is it the case, they didn't object to this bizzare notion. I'm getting a sense of an impression NPHET actually recommended this but I'm not sure they actually did.

I want to read the NPHET letter for myself. I don't think it has been published yet - I can't find it anyway

_Kaiser_

eviltimeban wrote: »

Do they achieve anything though?

Irish Water was a unusual situation as the way they went about things was flawed from the start.

Not unlike how this situation has been handled then.

funnydoggy

leahyl wrote: »

This is possibly the biggest decision of Michael Martins political career….he’s gonna f**k it up, isn’t he?!

He'll have to drink in shebeens for the rest of his life lol, no pub in Cork will serve him after today.

GeorgeBailey

average_runner wrote: »

And Leo. Both are in it together

Leo will be leaking like crazy over the next while about how he wanted everything to go ahead as planned on July 5th.

screamer

Watch now, they’ll make a decision, and then change their mind, like everything else they’ve made decisions on. Clowns have kept us locked down too long, now the delta virus is banging on the door, so we’ll stay locked up. They’ll need to ensure schools and colleges resume as normal in September so forget any removal of these final restrictions unless we get 80% of the population fully vaccinated. Meanwhile the economy is a basket case and I half wonder if the game plan is to hand that over to the shinners in the next election!!!!
I’m utterly fed up now with it all

average_runner

GeorgeBailey wrote: »

Leo will be leaking like crazy over the next while about how he wanted everything to go ahead as planned on July 5th.

Leo mentioned the vaccinated idea last night

average_runner

screamer wrote: »

Watch now, they’ll make a decision, and then change their mind, like everything else they’ve made decisions on. Clowns have kept us locked down too long, now the delta virus is banging on the door, so we’ll stay locked up. They’ll need to ensure schools and colleges resume as normal in September so forget any removal of these final restrictions unless we get 80% of the population fully vaccinated. Meanwhile the economy is a basket case and I half wonder if the game plan is to hand that over to the shinners in the next election!!!!
I’m utterly fed up now with it all

Shinners aren't saying much against it though. No one wants to be in power after the next election

TomTomTim

average_runner wrote: »

Shinners aren't saying much against it though. No one wants to be in power after the next election

This is what I don't get. A new election wouldn't change anything, the opposition have constantly be calling for stricter lockdowns.

facehugger99

The response to this virus had been driven by social media hysteria from the outset.

Don't be surprised to see a rollback from Government on the latest leaks.

There is no logic or following of science at play here.

Corholio

In Netherlands at the moment and reading about the last 72 hours in Ireland, it comes across as bonkers. The unvaccinated only stuff will never work and is a nightmare for pubs. Went to a bar/club here on Saturday till 4am without masks and distancing, just needed a test earlier in the day, no masks needed in shops etc now either. Had meals a few times indoors too.

Hopefully a compromised decision can be made today rather than the rumoured horrific ones touted. There was a few here who agreed and argued for everything that the government/NPHET proposed, surely even some of these disagree with this?

agoodpunt

TomTomTim wrote: »

This is what I don't get. A new election wouldn't change anything, the opposition have constantly be calling for stricter lockdowns.

Money is going to runout eventually

TomTomTim

agoodpunt wrote: »

Money is going to runout eventually

We said that a year ago

Russman

I'm really struggling to join up the dots on all this tbh, and get to the "why ?" of it all.

I've no real opinion on Tony either way, I think Glynn is far more personable and empathetic but that's neither here nor there. However I can't believe he's some Bond villain type character sitting back trying to bring destruction, despite some of the more irrational posts on here. I just don't buy it.
That said, the worst case modelling numbers that are being highlighted do seem absolutely off the wall bonkers and I'd love to see them explained, along with the best case and middle case numbers for comparison.

Even if NHPET was on some mad solo run, I still can't understand the "why". What do they gain from it ? It makes no sense.
Likewise, why would any elected government, who depend on votes, willingly go with it, if there wasn't a good reason ? They'd be killing themselves at the next election, especially with that other madcap party waiting in the wings. Surely between the cabinet members (of 3 different parties) and their advisors and the senior civil servants etc etc they can't all be in on it, whatever "it" is ? Why would any government want to impose restrictions for a day longer than necessary ?

So if we discount the idea that there's some nefarious plan that they're all in on, as being a bit too crackpot, we're back to the modelling. It can't be right, or can it ? Why is the worst case scenario the one being focussed on and not the middle case or best case ?
Is filling a few thousand pubs with unvaccinated 20/30 year olds really going to lead to the numbers they talk about with the new Delta ? I've no idea tbh. That story from Australia about how easily it spreads with a few seconds worth of contact is worrying but maybe its an outlier.
Is our health service that bad that it can't handle even a small spike in cases while still doing the normal stuff and that's what they're trying to protect ?

Meh, I dunno, its all a bit mad Ted.

RobitTV

:D

https://twitter.com/IrlCovid19/status/1409808174249648131

Ballynally

AdamD wrote: »

Also how do we get 7 months into the year before they propose an internal vaccine passport? I fundamentally disagree with the premise, but if they actually wanted to do it they should have been organising it months ago. This is the standard of planning that's deciding whether industries open or not, infuriating stuff.

Or more likely another delaying technique. You know... not now. Will take another look later. Might cause some problems implementing. Might be unfair. Technical issues. No clear passway. Disagreements need to be straightened out before any decisions can be made. Situations changed so further committee to investigate. Delay upon delay.
It is exactly like in 'yes, minister'!

Note: it is also precisely the way I sometimes operate. "Yes darling, i WILL paint the house but not yet". Prolonged decision about which paint to use, where to buy it, pricing.
"Are you sure you want that colour? look at the other houses".We might have to re evaluate. Ive gone off that colour now".
It is dubious we can go ahead and that type of paint might not protect as well. It rains more, more frost, more drought. Not sure. Doubt. Fear the wrong decision will be made. Anyway, prognosis unclear. Dont move..

Gael23

Gael23 wrote: »

Deaths not being reported due to cyber attack but I agree with your sentiment

Mad that the cyber attack has crippled every aspect of the HSE. Except Tony's spreadsheet.

stephenjmcd

I'd say cabinet is right craic this morning

https://twitter.com/MichealLehane/status/1409809676750004229?s=20

Murph85

The only light at the end if the tunnel, is ffg are totally responsible for this farce... they womt he able to say " but we weren't in power " , " we would have done this differently "

Hurrache

Murph85 wrote: »

The only light at the end if the tunnel, is ffg are totally responsible for this farce... they womt he able to say " but we weren't in power " , " we would have done this differently "

SF can't say anything either as they never disagreed with the restrictions.

JPCN1

TomTomTim wrote: »

This is what I don't get. A new election wouldn't change anything, the opposition have constantly be calling for stricter lockdowns.

FG under Varadkar don't know where they are from one day to the next as he goes off chasing soundbites.

We badly need a party who are an alternative to the drivel we have to chose from now. A quarter of a trillion in debt and shyte public services to show for it. Tax hikes incoming.

Best case scenario is projected at 1,500 hospital admissions over 3 months, with the worst case scenario projected at 13,000 hospital admissions.

How can anyone take their modelling seriously with such an enormous range?

It's bordering guesswork.

The worst-case scenario would potentially see almost 700,000 cases of the virus over July, August and September, with as many as 2,170 deaths as the Delta variant becomes dominant. The most optimistic projection would see 81,000 cases and 165 deaths.

There is an expectation that Nphet will seek a delay of several weeks in reopening indoor hospitality.

The Irish Times understands the modelling estimates almost 13,000 hospital admissions over the three months, and more than 1,600 people in intensive care units (ICU) should the most pessimistic scenario play out. One source said this would see hospitals “overrun”.

The most benign scenario would see just over 1,500 admissions and 195 people in ICUs.

And apparently hospitals are at risk of being overwhelmed.

This is absolutely ridiculous stuff.

No independent analysis of the data, either. So, that means Government is taking decisions on the back of no independent analysis.

You couldn't make this stuff up. Actually I'm wrong, NPHET have done precisely that.

is_that_so

TomTomTim wrote: »

We said that a year ago

When Paschal uses the word trillion to talk about our debt you know we're near the end of it. 2-3 months max before they begin to reverse things.

ThunbergsAreGo

Hurrache wrote: »

SF can't say anything either as they never disagreed with the restrictions.

I dont really understand why they havent taken any position on this,

would likely win them alot of voters

facehugger99

agoodpunt wrote: »

Money is going to runout eventually

The access to cheap credit has destroyed us.

It's allowed the Government to load us with debt to abdicate any decision making.

Klonker

Corholio wrote: »

In Netherlands at the moment and reading about the last 72 hours in Ireland, it comes across as bonkers. The unvaccinated only stuff will never work and is a nightmare for pubs. Went to a bar/club here on Saturday till 4am without masks and distancing, just needed a test earlier in the day, no masks needed in shops etc now either. Had meals a few times indoors too.

Hopefully a compromised decision can be made today rather than the rumoured horrific ones touted. There was a few here who agreed and argued for everything that the government/NPHET proposed, surely even some of these disagree with this?

You would think but there's still some trying to justify all this as if it makes some sense. Sunk cost fallacy at this stage I think. They've defended NPHET for so long they can't admit to themselves they've been wrong all along.

the kelt

For the first time since this started COVID scares me.

And it has nothing to do with the virus itself.

RobitTV

The Department of Health has published a tender document seeking a bidder to provide up to 1600 hotel rooms for Mandatory Hotel Quarantine, with the contract due to run until.......September 2022.