Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

sydthebeat · 28-06-2021 10:46PM

damianmcr wrote: »

This is my third post in here. I asked could it be moved to the Leinster thread as it is genuinely pathetic the toys being thrown about in here because one of your players didnt get picked. Get a grip. No one has said anything derogatory about the player.

is james ryan not an ireland player ???

VANG1 · 28-06-2021 10:47PM

He’s the Ireland captain at the moment.

molloyjh · 28-06-2021 10:47PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

is james ryan not an ireland player ???

Yes but that'd be no fun. You cant stir an almost entirely Irish forum based on that. You have to make it provincial.

28-06-2021 10:49PM

damianmcr wrote: »

This is my third post in here. I asked could it be moved to the Leinster thread as it is genuinely pathetic the toys being thrown about in here because one of your players didnt get picked. Get a grip. No one has said anything derogatory about the player.

When you accidentally admit you only support players from your province for Ireland :pac:

damianmcr · 28-06-2021 10:51PM

Deleted User wrote: »

When you accidentally admit you only support players from your province for Ireland :pac:

I could have came in here for a windup and it is genuinely funny how Leinster fans are taking it but I didnt. I clicked in here today to see if anyone had any team news for the weekends game.

Either way I wont post again. Dont want to upset anyone else.

TRC10 · 28-06-2021 10:53PM

damianmcr wrote: »

I could have came in here for a windup and it is genuinely funny how Leinster fans are taking it but I didnt. I clicked in here today to see if anyone had any team news for the weekends game.

Either way I wont post again. Dont want to upset anyone else.

Most devastated I've been since my beloved Leinster player wasn't picked for the Lions

El_Duderino 09 · 28-06-2021 11:10PM

VANG1 wrote: »

James Ryan is a top player and will prove all his detractors wrong. He is very young and is improving. I have no doubt he will be on the next Lions tour. It is pathetic to see Irish supporters talking him down. Get a life, he always gives everything to the jersey.

Ah, that's silly. I agree he gives everything for the Jersey, but I also acknowledge that his form hasn't been great this year (which makes it hard to argue that he is improving when we acknowlthst his form has actually disapproved this year) but he will certainly gain experience over the years. Picking the next lions tour is ridiculous considering that we would all have presumed Ryan would have been picked on form for this tour until his form dipped and he wasn't picked.

I think he's a very good player and I imagine his form will pick up again. Pretending we can pick players who will make the 2025 tour is silly when we would have all picked the same player for thisbtour but he wasn't picked.

28-06-2021 11:16PM

I don't think there is any much glee on display, but definitely a couple of posters who would seem to preference the narrative that Ryan was not picked due to his inferiority as a player and not his inferior fitness as they are resoundingly dismissing the latter as a possibility.

Outside of a few headers on twitter and some journo's seeking retweets the majority (if not uniform) sentiment on here from anyone else is not that "Ryan definitely missed out because of injury" but more that he may well have missed out on merit, but it's also possible that an injury (the extent to which may not yet be understood, and adductor injuries are finicky) may have been a deciding factor.

Cowan Dickey travelling is not the same situation at all, a player isn't going to be dropped that has already been selected if they are likely to feature soon enough (and there are countless examples of this - Tommy Bowe being a particularly long term example). Bringing in a replacement with a potential fitness issue however when you have the luxury of calling up someone with no such issue is a no brainer and Cowan Dickey might be Gatland's first preference, Beard and Ryan are definitely not.

People clinging to this 'might be available at the weekend' are ignoring the 'might' for some reason and it's not like there haven't been literally countless examples of players 'maybe featuring this weekend' only to disappear for a few months with a more serious than perceived issue.

I personally couldn't really care less who goes - happy to have more live sport and with the Irish contingent going well last weekend we may see good representation in the test team. Looking forward to getting revenge on Japan on Saturday so personally I hope Ryan is fit and has a stormer.

aloooof · 28-06-2021 11:58PM

So… anyone wanna talk about the possibility of Balacoune starting at the weekend??

TRC10 · 29-06-2021 12:12AM

aloooof wrote: »

So… anyone wanna talk about the possibility of Balacoune starting at the weekend??

I'd love to see it. But I fear Farrell will go for established players like Larmour or Conway v Japan and then hand out the debuts v USA.

But I'd love to see Baloucoune start. I've been impressed with his aerial and finishing ability and obviously his speed. His 2 finishes v Leinster were top drawer. I've seen him lose the ball in contact or try to force an offload a few times but nothing that can't be ironed out. He's a cracking player.

Dubinusa · 29-06-2021 02:28AM

These matches are certainly an opportunity to blood some new lads. I would like to see O'Toole start and Coombes start. Carberry will probably start, I would prefer HB. I think Farrell will opt for experience against Japan.

pickarooney · 29-06-2021 06:57AM

sydthebeat wrote: »

thats quite a selective narrative. is that any more likely than:

Gatland: "we're assessing options for replacing AWJ, what's the story with James Ryan?"

IRFU: "he picked up an abductor injury during the week, which we are monitoring."

Gatland: "Ok, We need him to go immediately, but hes out of contention now, thanks anyway"

Meanwhile at Exeter...

Gatland: "How's Cowan Dickie doing?"

Exeter: "Well he got KTFO and stretchered off and will have to miss at least a week"

Gatland: "Hmm..."

Exeter: "Also, this is Exeter, **** knows if he's vaccinated and SA is being ravaged by Covid"

Gatland: "Ah **** it, have you any idea what a PITA a name change on a flight is? Send him over with Hill and Hogg."

Exeter: "And Gray?"

Gatland: "Who?"

TRC10 · 29-06-2021 08:19AM

pickarooney wrote: »

Meanwhile at Exeter...

Gatland: "How's Cowan Dickie doing?"

Exeter: "Well he got KTFO and stretchered off and will have to miss at least a week"

Gatland: "Hmm..."

Exeter: "Also, this is Exeter, **** knows if he's vaccinated and SA is being ravaged by Covid"

Gatland: "Ah **** it, have you any idea what a PITA a name change on a flight is? Send him over with Hill and Hogg."

Exeter: "And Gray?"

Gatland: "Who?"

If anybody was pissed off about Ryan missing out, it was in May when the squad was announced. People think that Beard getting picked is some sort of last nail in the coffin, but it really is not.

Cowan-Dickie could well be in Gatland's test team and only has to go through the RTP protocols and is guaranteed to be available in a week.

Ryan obviously wasn't within an asses roar of the test team, and now he has a groin strain which could flare up at any moment.

It's really not difficult to understand why a player who is not even in Gatland's top 6 locks, and now also has fitness doubts wouldn't be taken on the eve of the tour, when all he's going to be doing is playing against the provincial sides anyway.

The Ryan debate was had in May when he wasn't picked in the original squad. This is really a non-issue. And I don't get why so many people are determined to make it an issue.

Anyway, my team for Japan

15-Keenan
14-Baloucoune
13-Hume
12-McCloskey
11-Stockdale
10-Carbery
9-Casey
1-Killer
2-Kelleher
3-O'Toole
4-Baird
5-Ryan
6-Coombes
7-VDF
8-Doris

Wegians89 · 29-06-2021 08:44AM

Japan are a very decent side, I’d go for:

Kilcoyne
Herring
Bealham
Dillane
Baird (Ryan I’d fit)
Pom
Vdf
Doris
Jgp
Carbery
Stockdale
Mccloskey (possibly Daly)
Farrell
Larmour
Keenan

Kelleher
Byrne
O toole
Wycherley
Coombes
Casey
Burns
S Daly

29-06-2021 09:12AM

I really hope we don't get beaten by Japan

yerrahbah · 29-06-2021 09:16AM

Turns out G.Coombes and F.Wycherley are the exact same age having been born on the same day

Would be fitting if they make their Irish debut on the same day

Seems strange as I've thought of Commbes being an up and coming player and Wycherley being almost part of the furniture

El_Duderino 09 · 29-06-2021 09:17AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I really hope we don't get beaten by Japan

It wouldn't be good but if they play a team for the future and get beaten then its not so bad.

The important thing is getting gamete for the younger lads and experience of being in camp and the week prepping for an international. I think Ireland puts too much emphasis on being in camp for a 6 nations before they consider picking some players, but that's the way it works. Once they're capped, they can be capped in bigger games.

phog · 29-06-2021 09:31AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I really hope we don't get beaten by Japan

Looking at them play last weekend it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that we could be chasing the game. At this stage they have a game under their belt too so should have a bit more fluidity in their game.

Clegg · 29-06-2021 09:57AM

I just hope we see signs that the England game wasn't a complete fluke. That performance was great, but was so much better than anything that preceded it that I'm not sure if it's a genuine sign of squad development or not.

Squidgy Black · 29-06-2021 10:14AM

Clegg wrote: »

I just hope we see signs that the England game wasn't a complete fluke. That performance was great, but was so much better than anything that preceded it that I'm not sure if it's a genuine sign of squad development or not.

Completely different squad to the England game, there's something like 13 or more out of the 23 that faced England not available for these tests, so I wouldn't be drawing any parallels at all from past games to be honest.

I think the tempo Japan showed against the Lions could really stretch us defensively if there isn't that cohesion there depending on what sort of 15 he puts out

El_Duderino 09 · 29-06-2021 10:24AM

Clegg wrote: »

I just hope we see signs that the England game wasn't a complete fluke. That performance was great, but was so much better than anything that preceded it that I'm not sure if it's a genuine sign of squad development or not.

That would be ideal but I given that it's a different squad of players, i don't think form could possibly carry over to any great degree. It would be nice to see a good brand of rugby and nice to see more ingenuity in attack.

arsebiscuits1 · 29-06-2021 11:24AM

yerrahbah wrote: »

Turns out G.Coombes and F.Wycherley are the exact same age having been born on the same day

Would be fitting if they make their Irish debut on the same day

Seems strange as I've thought of Commbes being an up and coming player and Wycherley being almost part of the furniture

That's gas that they're the same age to the day. Given they're both Cork men I wonder were the in the same hospital. Some story if that was the case

I can see the point of it seems Wycherley being a good bit older - he made his debut a full 18 months before Coombes and has racked up 25 more appearances than him so far.

They were seriously looking at Fineen as a 6 in his earlier career with him racking up 7 starts at blindside in the 18/19 (season in which Coombes made his debut) all the while they were seriously looking at Coombes in the 4/6 Hybrid in his earlier days before he settled on 8 and had his breakout season.

bilston · 29-06-2021 11:25AM

Clegg wrote: »

I just hope we see signs that the England game wasn't a complete fluke. That performance was great, but was so much better than anything that preceded it that I'm not sure if it's a genuine sign of squad development or not.

As others have said, the fact it is a significantly different squad means the comparisons will be hard to make.

But it will be interesting to see how some of the younger guys integrate into the squad and how our game has evolved. The players will have had a decent amount of time in camp so they'll have had a chance to prepare well.

Personally I'm looking forward to these two matches.

Dubinusa · 29-06-2021 12:37PM

Think I'd go with:
Dooley
Herring
Tot
Baird
Ryan/ Dillane
POM
VDf
Coombes
Blade
HB
Stockdale
McCloskey
DALY
Larmour
Keenan

Kilcoyne
Kelleher
Bealham
Molony
Doris
Casey
Carberry
Hume

Jump_In_Jack · 29-06-2021 05:08PM

I'd hope they just pick the strongest possible side for Japan, as they looked good against the Lions, and we should treat it like a grudge match not an experimental match.
The USA match is tailor-made for experimenting, and we're playing USA again in a few months so can beat them then if we don't beat them this time.

So for Japan, I'd say best possible selection is,

Kilcoyne, Heffernan, Bealham,
Baird, Ryan,
O'Mahony, Coombes, Van der Flier,
Blade, Carbery,
Stockdale, McCloskey, Hume, Baloucoune,
Keenan.
Replacements: Kelleher, Byrne, O'Toole, Dillane, Doris, Casey, Burns, Larmour.

Paul Smeenus · 29-06-2021 05:20PM

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

I'd hope they just pick the strongest possible side for Japan, as they looked good against the Lions, and we should treat it like a grudge match not an experimental match.
The USA match is tailor-made for experimenting, and we're playing USA again in a few months so can beat them then if we don't beat them this time.

So for Japan, I'd say best possible selection is,

Kilcoyne, Heffernan, Bealham,
Baird, Ryan,
O'Mahony, Coombes, Van der Flier,
Blade, Carbery,
Stockdale, McCloskey, Hume, Baloucoune,
Keenan.
Replacements: Kelleher, Byrne, O'Toole, Dillane, Doris, Casey, Burns, Larmour.

Has Herring really gone from starting hooker to, at best, third choice?

I'd say Hume is more likely to feature against the States (although he is obviously well-versed in playing with McCloskey). Would love to see Baloucoune start, and Coombes.

I'll be honest - very nervous about what that Matsushima might do to Stockdale.

TRC10 · 29-06-2021 05:57PM

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Has Herring really gone from starting hooker to, at best, third choice?

I'd say Hume is more likely to feature against the States (although he is obviously well-versed in playing with McCloskey). Would love to see Baloucoune start, and Coombes.

I'll be honest - very nervous about what that Matsushima might do to Stockdale.

Not 3rd choice but I'd say probably 2nd choice. Kelleher has ironed out his set piece issues and his work around the field is top notch. Hence why he's 1st reserve for the Lions.

I don't rate Heffernan too highly myself. I'd have Scannell ahead of him personally. At least Scannell is solid as a rock at scrum and lineout and also handy at the breakdown. I don't see what Heffernan's selling point is and he's 30.

Jump_In_Jack · 30-06-2021 12:56AM

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Has Herring really gone from starting hooker to, at best, third choice?

I'd say Hume is more likely to feature against the States (although he is obviously well-versed in playing with McCloskey). Would love to see Baloucoune start, and Coombes.

I'll be honest - very nervous about what that Matsushima might do to Stockdale.

No issue starting Herring either, just in my opinion Heffernan is worth a start, he has been good this season getting plenty of starts with Connacht, all three hookers are well capable.

Jump_In_Jack · 30-06-2021 01:25AM

Just reading back my last post, I realise it sounds contradictory to say no experimenting but I suggested a load of new caps.

I was thinking along the lines of selecting the strongest possible team in my opinion rather than the most experienced team.

The most experienced selection could be:
Kilcoyne, Herring, Ryan,
Dillane, Ryan,
O'Mahony, Doris, Van der Flier,
Gibson-Park, Burns,
Stockdale, McCloskey, Farrell, Larmour,
Keenan.
Replacements: Kelleher, Byrne, Bealham, Baird, Coombes, Casey, Carbery, Conway.

Dubinusa · 30-06-2021 02:41AM

I really don't think this match should be squandered. It's and ideal chance to give some new lads a run out against a strong enough side. Playing the Eagles is really not a barometer to measure a players ability at international level. There's nothing to be gained playing John Ryan. He won't be traveling to the next world cup. O'Toole is worth a shot. Nothing to fear, he's either going to sink or swim. Same situation with Coombes! He is ready, imo.
It's really a chance to gauge new players! Why play lads who won't make the rwc? Timoney, Boyle and Molony are probably fringe players. The Eagles would be a good opportunity for them. Balacoune will be starting soon, imo.

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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