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Sinn Fein has opposed building of 6,000 homes across Dublin - Fine Gael

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    #32
    crooked cockney villain
    Registered Users Posts: 583 ✭✭✭crooked cockney villain


    There shouldn't be a single house built on government owned land that is not affordable (150k to 250k) or social. Not one.

    SF are right in this instance.


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    #33
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,782 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    salonfire wrote: »
    Yes, it is good to see Fine Gael continuously focus on the hypocrisy of SF. We know how stupid the electorate is so the more negative spin dumped on the IRA supporters and enemies of the State the better. Just to reinforce to people who SF are. Don't forget SF want Special Criminal Court stopped.

    I hope the attacks and digging into the antics of SF continue to ramp up.

    Amnesty International, ICCL, the UN and a few past presidents also have grave concerns about the SCC. And the only hypocrisy on show is FG trying to cast the housing crisis on SF. They have been in government with their buddies in FF since the foundation of the state.
    It's their fault.


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    #34
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,059 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    crooked cockney villain wrote: »
    There shouldn't be a single house built on government owned land that is not affordable (150k to 250k) or social. Not one.

    SF are right in this instance.

    What about people not eligible for affordable housing i.e. a single person earning more than €58,000 or a couple earning more than €75,000. What the hell are they meant to do?


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    #35
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    salonfire wrote: »
    We know how stupid the electorate is

    FG marketing in a nutshell.


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    #36
    crooked cockney villain
    Registered Users Posts: 583 ✭✭✭crooked cockney villain


    AlmightyCushion wrote: »
    What about people not eligible for affordable housing i.e. a single person earning more than €58,000 or a couple earning more than €75,000. What the hell are they meant to do?

    The thresholds should be raised.

    In particular the threshold for social housing. It basically excludes all working couples (42K I believe it is?)


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    #37
    padd b1975
    Registered Users Posts: 10,715 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    crooked cockney villain wrote: »
    There shouldn't be a single house built on government owned land that is not affordable (150k to 250k) or social. Not one.

    SF are right in this instance.

    Well said Comrade!

    *Holds fist in the air*


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    #38
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    AlmightyCushion wrote: »
    What about people not eligible for affordable housing i.e. a single person earning more than €58,000 or a couple earning more than €75,000. What the hell are they meant to do?

    Those caps should be significantly raised or abolished altogether.


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    #39
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,617 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    cassette50 wrote: »
    Leo Varadkar,

    “There’s a difference between being in favour of development & being in favour of every single development & I think it’s always the prerogative of a Councillor/TD to object to particular developments that they may see as inappropriate”

    Sure Leo himself was objecting to apartments in Castleknock because the locals were afraid the price of their own properties would go down, and he said as much too. He also said that "four storey apartment blocks are a design model that has fallen into disfavour". In Leos world we should only build two storey apartment blocks :rolleyes:
    Taoiseach Leo Varadkar has defended his decision to object to a four-story apartment block in his constituency, saying the area has been “blighted” by bad planning.

    The Dublin Mid-West TD has been criticised by Fianna Fáil leader Micheál Martin for the “disconnect between the rhetoric” and the “reality on the grounds in terms of substance and policy”.

    In February Mr Varadkar ledged a complaint to Fingal County Council claiming that plans for a development on the Old Navan Road in Castleknock would be “grossly insensitive to local feelings”.

    "To begin, four storey apartment blocks are a design model which has long fallen into disfavour.

    "Yet these type of apartments are a key feature of the Absainte Ltd scheme,” he wrote.

    Mr Varadkar said the development “contravenes residential zoning objectives of the area” and would “be highly generative of traffic and have a negative impact on the market value of homes".
    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/taoiseach-leo-varadkar-defends-objections-to-constituency-development-claiming-area-has-been-blighted-36155759.html

    The ultimate in NIMBYism


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    #40
    crooked cockney villain
    Registered Users Posts: 583 ✭✭✭crooked cockney villain


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    Well said Comrade!

    *Holds fist in the air*

    I am as far removed from left wing politics as you could imagine. However there is absolutely no argument that publicly owned land should ever be sold to a private developer to build homes for sale at full market prices. The state should set up a state owned development firm and built homes at cost price on publicly owned land (circa 150 to 180k for a 3 bed terrace).

    It's no harm, you will still have plenty of people willing to pay 450K for the ugly monstrosity new builds that have come about in the last 5 or 6 years.


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    #41
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,224 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    salonfire wrote: »
    Yes, it is good to see Fine Gael continuously focus on the hypocrisy of SF. We know how stupid the electorate is so the more negative spin dumped on the IRA supporters and enemies of the State the better. Just to reinforce to people who SF are. Don't forget SF want Special Criminal Court stopped.

    I hope the attacks and digging into the antics of SF continue to ramp up.

    How would you say it’s been going on that front? Do you feel like progress is being made? Because the polls would beg to differ.


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    #42
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,224 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    I think the best thing FFG could do is get to a position where their positive impact on the housing crisis is obvious and easily explained to the average voter. Right now, their argument is very complicated and excuse laden. But that’s up to them in the end.


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    #43
    padd b1975
    Registered Users Posts: 10,715 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    crooked cockney villain wrote: »
    I am as far removed from left wing politics as you could imagine. However there is absolutely no argument that publicly owned land should ever be sold to a private developer to build homes for sale at full market prices. The state should set up a state owned development firm and built homes at cost price on publicly owned land (circa 150 to 180k for a 3 bed terrace).

    It's no harm, you will still have plenty of people willing to pay 450K for the ugly monstrosity new builds that have come about in the last 5 or 6 years.

    Would the "Peoples Building Company" be expected to tender fairly against privately owned firms.

    How would this be monitored?


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    #44
    salonfire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    How would you say it’s been going on that front? Do you feel like progress is being made? Because the polls would beg to differ.

    Going excellently. SF are not in power and never will be. FG, FF will always ensure to go into coalition with other like-minded parties to keep Pearse Doherty and his ranting and raving off the handles of power,.


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    #45
    tipptom
    Registered Users Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭tipptom


    salonfire wrote: »
    30 years ago?

    Just this month, SF refused to back the Special Criminal Court and attended memorials for garda killers.

    How do SF intend to provide more housing by blocking more housing? Square that circle there in your own head, genius.


    Wow,your an angry little maneen,bet you dont talk to people like that face to face.


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    #46
    salonfire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    FG marketing in a nutshell.

    Am I wrong? The electorate is stupid. Already hood-winked by Bertie by his low tax, high spending policies. Now more of the electorate are hitching to the SF wagon hoping for more of the same again and feck the consequences.


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    #47
    salonfire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    tipptom wrote: »
    [/B]

    Wow,your an angry little maneen,bet you dont talk to people like that face to face.

    I like the way you explained how SF could provide more housing by actually blocking more housing. What a well-thought response you provided there.


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    #48
    tipptom
    Registered Users Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭tipptom


    salonfire wrote: »
    I like the way you explained how SF could provide more housing by actually blocking more housing. What a well-thought response you provided there.

    They are not blocking them,read the report,FF,SDs and SF have objected to it because they want to know what they intend to build on it and rightly so.
    FG object to housing planning the whole time especcially if its ordinary housing in affluent areas.

    The people wont accept going back to the times of giving the develepors carte blanche to do whatever they want to do and rape the country again.

    You still did not answer the question,do you talk to people like that face to face?


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    #49
    salonfire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    tipptom wrote: »
    They are not blocking them,read the report,FF,SDs and SF have objected to it because they want to know what they intend to build on it and rightly so.
    FG object to housing planning the whole time especcially if its ordinary housing in affluent areas.

    The people wont accept going back to the times of giving the develepors carte blanche to do whatever they want to do and rape the country again.

    You still did not answer the question,do you talk to people like that face to face?

    If SF are going to oppose all developments if they contain private housing, how are people going to buy their homes?

    The great Irish electorate. Desperate to own their own home but hitch on to the party that only wants to build social housing.


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    #50
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,331 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    Muahahaha wrote:
    The ultimate in NIMBYism

    I think the ultimate in NIMBYism is people believing SF are going to fix the housing crisis whipe Eoin o Broin objects to a development in his constituency. Contrary to what SF fans would have us believe, his objection was against social housing being built by the council itself.


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    #51
    Shebean
    Registered Users Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Shebean


    salonfire wrote: »
    Am I wrong? The electorate is stupid. Already hood-winked by Bertie by his low tax, high spending policies. Now more of the electorate are hitching to the SF wagon hoping for more of the same again and feck the consequences.

    What's your opinion on the people voted Fianna Fail or worse, Fine Gael?
    What's your view on the housing situation and FG's handling of it and those who support them?
    SF are looking to build more social housing to tackle housing. FG are planning to carry on as is and solve the housing crisis. Who's talking out their barney the most do you reckon? You are criticising people for allegedly wanting what FF did last time out, while ignoring the fact they are in now and with FG :rolleyes:
    It's no wonder people are looking elsewhere. Even FG are mimicking SF.


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    #52
    Shebean
    Registered Users Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Shebean


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    I think the ultimate in NIMBYism is people believing SF are going to fix the housing crisis whipe Eoin o Broin objects to a development in his constituency. Contrary to what SF fans would have us believe, his objection was against social housing being built by the council itself.

    That's not true. It's spin. Just because reality doesn't suit you it doesn't mean it's a shinner conspiracy.
    FG PR is like Nero fiddling.


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    #53
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,991 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Nonsense, they are opposing for the sake of opposing. They are stuck with the idea that everyone should have a three-bed house with a garden big enough for a trampoline paid for by the State. No country in the world can do that, but they oppose every single other initiative.

    This!

    This is the opposition !!

    Chancers!


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    #54
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,782 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Good interview with John Fitzgerald Economist on Drivetime this evening.

    In a nut shell he rubbished the latest Govt equity plan on housing and stated that it won't increase builds but just increase profits for developers and landowners.

    Fitzgerald, I suppose is now a Shinner.


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    #55
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,302 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Fann Linn wrote: »
    Good interview with John Fitzgerald Economist on Drivetime this evening.

    In a nut shell he rubbished the latest Govt equity plan on housing and stated that it won't increase builds but just increase profits for developers and landowners.

    Fitzgerald, I suppose is now a Shinner.

    Is that the same economist who said that we would need to increase tax rates by 10% to afford a united Ireland? Is his word now gospel to Shinners?


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    #56
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,782 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Is that the same economist who said that we would need to increase tax rates by 10% to afford a united Ireland? Is his word now gospel to Shinners?

    And?

    Central Bank, ESRI, Dept of Housing also say it's daft.
    More Shinners for your list Blanch.


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    #57
    ineedeuro
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 989 ✭✭✭ineedeuro


    So far we have comments saying Sinn Fein objected to housing
    Then comments from SinnFein supporters saying it’s spin

    So which is it? Did they object or not? Fairly simple question

    I do think loads of the opposition rejected a housing estate because it wouldn’t be finished for 10 years, seems they struggled with the concept that does not mean no houses will be available for 10 years, just the entire project would take that long.


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    #58
    tipptom
    Registered Users Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭tipptom


    ineedeuro wrote: »
    So far we have comments saying Sinn Fein objected to housing
    Then comments from SinnFein supporters saying it’s spin

    So which is it? Did they object or not? Fairly simple question

    I do think loads of the opposition rejected a housing estate because it wouldn’t be finished for 10 years, seems they struggled with the concept that does not mean no houses will be available for 10 years, just the entire project would take that long.

    Of course its spin if you care to read the report.

    Its like the lions losing to a South African province and a the report says the Irish players lost to a South African province,nothing about the Scottish,English and Welsh players.

    Read the report,FF/fg,social democrats and SF have all objected to it until they know what is going to be built there,quite sensible from all three of them i would say,as what we have went through previously with the country been handed over to these developers to do what they wanted by the most corrupt party in the history of the Irish state.

    More anti SF spin from the Irish media/FF/FG that is backfiring on them and the Irish people dont trust the media anymore because of the medias attempts at subverting democratic elections to favour FF/FG against SF.


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    #59
    ineedeuro
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 989 ✭✭✭ineedeuro


    tipptom wrote: »
    Of course its spin if you care to read the report.

    Its like the lions losing to a South African province and a the report says the Irish players lost to a South African province,nothing about the Scottish,English and Welsh players.

    Read the report,FF/fg,social democrats and SF have all objected to it until they know what is going to be built there,quite sensible from all three of them i would say,as what we have went through previously with the country been handed over to these developers to do what they wanted by the most corrupt party in the history of the Irish state.

    More anti SF spin from the Irish media/FF/FG that is backfiring on them and the Irish people dont trust the media anymore because of the medias attempts at subverting democratic elections to favour FF/FG against SF.

    The “anti Sinn Fein media” is hilarious to be honest. Teh papers are full of political pieces which are positive and negative for all parties yet it seems Sinn Fein supporters are determined to follow along the media circus which followed Trump and all the craziness with that.

    Fact is some journalist will like a specific party and some won’t. No need to throw toys out of pram at every article which is anyway negative

    It’s in Sinn Fein interest for the so called housing crisis to continue so I expect they won’t want to help resolve it. Why would they because the current government will get the plaudits


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    #60
    tipptom
    Registered Users Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭tipptom


    ineedeuro wrote: »
    The “anti Sinn Fein media” is hilarious to be honest. Teh papers are full of political pieces which are positive and negative for all parties yet it seems Sinn Fein supporters are determined to follow along the media circus which followed Trump and all the craziness with that.

    Fact is some journalist will like a specific party and some won’t. No need to throw toys out of pram at every article which is anyway negative

    It’s in Sinn Fein interest for the so called housing crisis to continue so I expect they won’t want to help resolve it. Why would they because the current government will get the plaudits

    So you do realise this is just more anti SF spin and they were just one of three parties that had perfectly reasonable objections to this or do you just want to ignore that to continue the lie they are trying to spin?

    The very reason SF has garnered so much support is because the electorate recognises that there is now no separation between FG/FF and the mainstream media in their attacks on SF and it has become laughable at this stage because it backfires on them so much.

    They had it their own way for so long but they have now being circumvented by social media and been exposed and they are to stupid to recognise this,
    They print something like this with just the "SF party objects"in a massive headline and not be challenged on it.

    The MS media will die out in Ireland if this continues along with the FG/FF voters who are dying out anyway


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    #61
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,302 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    tipptom wrote: »
    So you do realise this is just more anti SF spin and they were just one of three parties that had perfectly reasonable objections to this or do you just want to ignore that to continue the lie they are trying to spin?

    The very reason SF has garnered so much support is because the electorate recognises that there is now no separation between FG/FF and the mainstream media in their attacks on SF and it has become laughable at this stage because it backfires on them so much.

    They had it their own way for so long but they have now being circumvented by social media and been exposed and they are to stupid to recognise this,
    They print something like this with just the "SF party objects"in a massive headline and not be challenged on it.

    The MS media will die out in Ireland if this continues along with the FG/FF voters who are dying out anyway


    This kind of spin is unedifying.

    Yes, FF objected to some proposals, yes SDs objected to some proposals, in fact, you can find (and our dearly departed friend James Brown did so) that FG objected to some proposals, but there is one consistent theme, SF object to all proposals.

    #notanormalparty


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