Sinn Fein has opposed building of 6,000 homes across Dublin - Fine Gael

RandomName2 · 25-06-2021 10:53am #1

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sinn-f%C3%A9in-has-opposed-building-of-6-000-homes-across-dublin-says-fine-gael-report-1.4602893

One of the salient bits from the article

The document also gives the example of the rezoning of old industrial lands across Dublin for up to 3,500 homes.

“Sinn Féin voted against the majority of these rezoning projects – a majority of SF councillors voted yes on only three of the rezoning projects, and no on 14.”

The sites are spread across the city, with a concentration in the southwest and northeast.

Several councillors, including from the Social Democrats, Fianna Fáil and Sinn Féin raised concerns.

They said they could not support the rezonings because they did not know what sort of housing would be built on the lands, with a particular concern that tall apartments and co-living blocks would be built.

Cllr Mícheál Mac Donncha of Sinn Féin said the rezoning was being proposed “within a deeply flawed planning and zoning system”.

While we need homes to be affordable, multinational 'vulture' companies do pose a legitimate threat. On the other hand we see objections to the very nature of rezoning for things like the hypothetical heights of housing being too.. high. The best way to decrease prices is to increase supply. Provided that that supply is not monopolized, and is subject to the correct tax to disincentive hoarding, building more homes that should pose the best way to reduce prices.

jam_mac_jam · 25-06-2021 11:17am

It's almost like they don't want the housing crisis solved.

Planning needs to be taken away from local councils if they are refusing everything for political reasons.

blanch152 · 25-06-2021 12:07pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

It's almost like they don't want the housing crisis solved.

Planning needs to be taken away from local councils if they are refusing everything for political reasons.

Of course Sinn Fein don't want the housing crisis solved. That would leave them with little ammunition to throw at the government. It is possibly the single worst example of opposition for opposition's sake in the history of the state. Cynical opportunistic populist politics at its worst.

maccored · 25-06-2021 12:34pm

"Several councillors, including from the Social Democrats, Fianna Fáil and Sinn Féin raised concerns."

You need to change the title of the thread to reflect the reality

Fann Linn · 25-06-2021 12:39pm

In other words, Fine Gael report says, '.... but SF... '

Chips Lovell · 25-06-2021 12:44pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

It's almost like they don't want the housing crisis solved.

Not till the next election at least.

RulesOfNature · 25-06-2021 12:47pm

All politicians from all parties are in the real estate game. Dont be naive in thinking Sinn Fein will solve all your problems.

Floppybits · 25-06-2021 1:21pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Of course Sinn Fein don't want the housing crisis solved. That would leave them with little ammunition to throw at the government. It is possibly the single worst example of opposition for opposition's sake in the history of the state. Cynical opportunistic populist politics at its worst.

I see again that you are blinded by your complete and utter hatred for SF and as usual like a lot of people on you are incapable of judging anything involving SF neutrally and without bias.

Go read it again and read the reasons for the objections and read who else opposed it.

For what its worth I think they are correct to the be opposing planning where it is not clear what is type of housing is going to be built. This just nonsense from some quarters of just removing any planning and giving developers carte blanche to build what they like, how they like and where ever they like is complete and utter idiocy.

blanch152 · 25-06-2021 1:33pm

Floppybits wrote: »

I see again that you are blinded by your complete and utter hatred for SF and as usual like a lot of people on you are incapable of judging anything involving SF neutrally and without bias.

Go read it again and read the reasons for the objections and read who else opposed it.

For what its worth I think they are correct to the be opposing planning where it is not clear what is type of housing is going to be built. This just nonsense from some quarters of just removing any planning and giving developers carte blanche to build what they like, how they like and where ever they like is complete and utter idiocy.

Nonsense, they are opposing for the sake of opposing. They are stuck with the idea that everyone should have a three-bed house with a garden big enough for a trampoline paid for by the State. No country in the world can do that, but they oppose every single other initiative.

Fann Linn · 25-06-2021 1:33pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

It's almost like they don't want the housing crisis solved.

Planning needs to be taken away from local councils if they are refusing everything for political reasons.

Councillors cannot oppose planning applications as a body. I think it's the gifting of public lands to developers that's at issue.

AirGuitarist · 25-06-2021 1:49pm

Floppybits wrote:

For what its worth I think they are correct to the be opposing planning where it is not clear what is type of housing is going to be built. This just nonsense from some quarters of just removing any planning and giving developers carte blanche to build what they like, how they like and where ever they like is complete and utter idiocy.

All councils employ professional planners to make planning decisions based on agreed national and local planning policy... councillors get involved in planning decisions purely for political gain, another reason why they should be removed from these decisions.

Floppybits · 25-06-2021 1:53pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Nonsense, they are opposing for the sake of opposing. They are stuck with the idea that everyone should have a three-bed house with a garden big enough for a trampoline paid for by the State. No country in the world can do that, but they oppose every single other initiative.

How do you know that?

Floppybits · 25-06-2021 1:58pm

AirGuitarist wrote: »

All councils employ professional planners to make planning decisions based on agreed national and local planning policy... councillors get involved in planning decisions purely for political gain, another reason why they should be removed from these decisions.

So you just want to give developers carte blanche to do what they want? Like say self regulation and developers can be trusted.

Shebean · 25-06-2021 2:18pm

Nasty and cynical propaganda by the Irish Times on behalf of the failed Fine Gael.
This is damaging the prospect of tackling the housing crisis to try get one over on the opposition.
It's cynical and antisocial.
Enough of the games. Fine Gael and Fianna Fail need to step up for the tax paying public.
These desperate spin tactics need to end. Public wellbeing is more important than Fine Gael worrying about polls.
Any party that has an issue has explained it. If FF/FG put forward not fit for purpose building plans they need to be blocked.
This idea that something is better than nothing is a con designed to snake in bad for profit buildings.
Give up the selfish gaming.
It's a desperate piece of spin.

blanch152 · 25-06-2021 2:33pm

Shebean wrote: »

Nasty and cynical propaganda by the Irish Times on behalf of the failed Fine Gael.
This is damaging the prospect of tackling the housing crisis to try get one over on the opposition.
It's cynical and antisocial.
Enough of the games. Fine Gael and Fianna Fail need to step up for the tax paying public.
These desperate spin tactics need to end. Public wellbeing is more important than Fine Gael worrying about polls.
Any party that has an issue has explained it. If FF/FG put forward not fit for purpose building plans they need to be blocked.
This idea that something is better than nothing is a con designed to snake in bad for profit buildings.
Give up the selfish gaming.
It's a desperate piece of spin.

It is the media's fault.

No. 17 of SF excuses.

Shebean · 25-06-2021 3:23pm

blanch152 wrote: »

It is the media's fault.

No. 17 of SF excuses.

Fault for what? Your comment assumes a wrong was done that needs defending.
Nothing wrong with SF/SD/FF objecting to bad builds.
An Irish Times PR piece for Fine Gael showing up Fine Gael, their desperation, excuses, deflection, agenda and people selling the distraction is the problem.
Fine Gael should put that energy into good builds which benefit the people pay their wages.

Fann Linn · 25-06-2021 6:58pm

blanch152 wrote: »

It is the media's fault.

No. 17 of SF excuses.

Not really media Blanch when you're just regurgitating and distributing something which was handed to them.

Kinda like Snap Printers. Just printing a political party's spin.

AirGuitarist · 25-06-2021 8:13pm

Floppybits wrote:

So you just want to give developers carte blanche to do what they want? Like say self regulation and developers can be trusted.

Reiterating my previous point here, but Council planners make planning decisions based on National and Local Policy... nothing in these policies about giving carte blanche to developers.

Podge_irl · 25-06-2021 8:23pm

Floppybits wrote: »

So you just want to give developers carte blanche to do what they want? Like say self regulation and developers can be trusted.

Rezoning the land doesn't remove the requirement for planning permission.

Voting against rezoning means nothing will be built based on hypothetical scenarios were they might not like what people might propose.

Gatling · 25-06-2021 8:32pm

There was big push in Kingswood in tallaght to rezone a green area for housing ,a particular area known for higher value houses and no social housing ,the local councillors blocked the rezoning ,a sf councillor replied to a query on social media about keeping the land out of greedy billionaire developer's hands , meanwhile every bit of green space from tallaght to rathcoole is being hammered with large scale apartment developments

Galwayguy35 · 25-06-2021 8:32pm

Kind of like O Riordain objecting to houses being built in his constituency a few years ago, couldn't have ordinary folk mixing with his posh neighbours.

27-06-2021 10:04am

Fann Linn wrote: »

In other words, Fine Gael report says, '.... but SF... '

Yes, it is good to see Fine Gael continuously focus on the hypocrisy of SF. We know how stupid the electorate is so the more negative spin dumped on the IRA supporters and enemies of the State the better. Just to reinforce to people who SF are. Don't forget SF want Special Criminal Court stopped.

I hope the attacks and digging into the antics of SF continue to ramp up.

27-06-2021 10:08am

Well done to all who opposed.

27-06-2021 10:11am

Deleted User wrote: »

Well done to all who opposed.

So you're against land being made available for housing then. Where do suggest people should live?

sydthebeat · 27-06-2021 10:16am

Not at all surprised that SF are ignorant in regards to forward planning policy and procedures.

Objecting to rezoning because you don't know exactly what type of building will be built is illogical and ignorant in the extreme

27-06-2021 10:17am

salonfire wrote: »

So you're against land being made available for housing then. Where do suggest people should live?

I'm against wishy-washy proposals being smuggled through and exacerbating our housing crisis.

McMurphy · 27-06-2021 10:24am

salonfire wrote: »

I hope the attacks and digging into the antics of SF continue to ramp up.

I reckon the shinners are hoping that these "attacks" continue more than anyone else tbh. Went well at the last election, didn't it?

A collaborative media - "Sinn Fein, something something IRA 30 years ago"

"Electorate - "STFU and do something about this health and housing crisis FFS"

The people harping on about the Ra and the troubles are literally a dying breed, being replaced each election cycle with new young voters who couldn't give a rats ass about the IRA in 1984, as they're too occupied with unobtainable mortgages and artificially inflated tenancies.

You'd think FFG would have learned a lesson after the last election and concentrate on the real issues instead of telling young folk there used to be a war/conflict raging up north, but no, seems stupid is as stupid does.

cassette50 · 27-06-2021 10:36am

Leo Varadkar,

“There’s a difference between being in favour of development & being in favour of every single development & I think it’s always the prerogative of a Councillor/TD to object to particular developments that they may see as inappropriate”

27-06-2021 11:00am

McMurphy wrote: »

I reckon the shinners are hoping that these "attacks" continue more than anyone else tbh. Went well at the last election, didn't it?

A collaborative media - "Sinn Fein, something something IRA 30 years ago"

"Electorate - "STFU and do something about this health and housing crisis FFS"

The people harping on about the Ra and the troubles are literally a dying breed, being replaced each election cycle with new young voters who couldn't give a rats ass about the IRA in 1984, as they're too occupied with unobtainable mortgages and artificially inflated tenancies.

You'd think FFG would have learned a lesson after the last election and concentrate on the real issues instead of telling young folk there used to be a war/conflict raging up north, but no, seems stupid is as stupid does.

30 years ago?

Just this month, SF refused to back the Special Criminal Court and attended memorials for garda killers.

How do SF intend to provide more housing by blocking more housing? Square that circle there in your own head, genius.

McMurphy · 27-06-2021 11:17am

salonfire wrote: »

30 years ago?

Just this month, SF refused to back the Special Criminal Court and attended memorials for garda killers.

How do SF intend to provide more housing by blocking more housing? Square that circle there in your own head, genius.

Well it's not just Sinn Fein that are against the SCC, last time I looked into that furore, seems the UN, amnesty international and the ICCL among others disagree with it also, I guess they're all raging shinners now too?

The thirty years thing is a figure of speech, Garda McCabe was killed 25 years ago, might as well be 800 BC to some of the younger electorate who, as already mentioned are more worried about the aforementioned rent/mortgage/health crises.

And lastly, there's little to no point AGREEING with every planning application either, Leo's quote above is on the money, the OP and others contributing to this thread seemed to have wilfully ignored the reasons for the objections.

By the way, when you use the term "genius" in an obnoxious and condescending manner in which you have did in the post I quoted, it gives your argument less merit, just saying.

Ultimate Gowlbag · 27-06-2021 11:23am

salonfire wrote: »

Yes, it is good to see Fine Gael continuously focus on the hypocrisy of SF. We know how stupid the electorate is so the more negative spin dumped on the IRA supporters and enemies of the State the better. Just to reinforce to people who SF are. Don't forget SF want Special Criminal Court stopped.

I hope the attacks and digging into the antics of SF continue to ramp up.

Jesus,the absolute state of this :pac::pac::pac:

crooked cockney villain · 27-06-2021 1:09pm

There shouldn't be a single house built on government owned land that is not affordable (150k to 250k) or social. Not one.

SF are right in this instance.

Fann Linn · 27-06-2021 1:17pm

salonfire wrote: »

Yes, it is good to see Fine Gael continuously focus on the hypocrisy of SF. We know how stupid the electorate is so the more negative spin dumped on the IRA supporters and enemies of the State the better. Just to reinforce to people who SF are. Don't forget SF want Special Criminal Court stopped.

I hope the attacks and digging into the antics of SF continue to ramp up.

Amnesty International, ICCL, the UN and a few past presidents also have grave concerns about the SCC. And the only hypocrisy on show is FG trying to cast the housing crisis on SF. They have been in government with their buddies in FF since the foundation of the state.
It's their fault.

AlmightyCushion · 27-06-2021 1:23pm

crooked cockney villain wrote: »

There shouldn't be a single house built on government owned land that is not affordable (150k to 250k) or social. Not one.

SF are right in this instance.

What about people not eligible for affordable housing i.e. a single person earning more than €58,000 or a couple earning more than €75,000. What the hell are they meant to do?

hatrickpatrick · 27-06-2021 1:25pm

salonfire wrote: »

We know how stupid the electorate is

FG marketing in a nutshell.

crooked cockney villain · 27-06-2021 1:25pm

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

What about people not eligible for affordable housing i.e. a single person earning more than €58,000 or a couple earning more than €75,000. What the hell are they meant to do?

The thresholds should be raised.

In particular the threshold for social housing. It basically excludes all working couples (42K I believe it is?)

padd b1975 · 27-06-2021 1:26pm

crooked cockney villain wrote: »

There shouldn't be a single house built on government owned land that is not affordable (150k to 250k) or social. Not one.

SF are right in this instance.

Well said Comrade!

*Holds fist in the air*

hatrickpatrick · 27-06-2021 1:27pm

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

What about people not eligible for affordable housing i.e. a single person earning more than €58,000 or a couple earning more than €75,000. What the hell are they meant to do?

Those caps should be significantly raised or abolished altogether.

Muahahaha · 27-06-2021 1:42pm

cassette50 wrote: »

Leo Varadkar,

“There’s a difference between being in favour of development & being in favour of every single development & I think it’s always the prerogative of a Councillor/TD to object to particular developments that they may see as inappropriate”

Sure Leo himself was objecting to apartments in Castleknock because the locals were afraid the price of their own properties would go down, and he said as much too. He also said that "four storey apartment blocks are a design model that has fallen into disfavour". In Leos world we should only build two storey apartment blocks :rolleyes:

Taoiseach Leo Varadkar has defended his decision to object to a four-story apartment block in his constituency, saying the area has been “blighted” by bad planning.

The Dublin Mid-West TD has been criticised by Fianna Fáil leader Micheál Martin for the “disconnect between the rhetoric” and the “reality on the grounds in terms of substance and policy”.

In February Mr Varadkar ledged a complaint to Fingal County Council claiming that plans for a development on the Old Navan Road in Castleknock would be “grossly insensitive to local feelings”.

"To begin, four storey apartment blocks are a design model which has long fallen into disfavour.

"Yet these type of apartments are a key feature of the Absainte Ltd scheme,” he wrote.

Mr Varadkar said the development “contravenes residential zoning objectives of the area” and would “be highly generative of traffic and have a negative impact on the market value of homes".

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/taoiseach-leo-varadkar-defends-objections-to-constituency-development-claiming-area-has-been-blighted-36155759.html

The ultimate in NIMBYism

crooked cockney villain · 27-06-2021 1:44pm

padd b1975 wrote: »

Well said Comrade!

*Holds fist in the air*

I am as far removed from left wing politics as you could imagine. However there is absolutely no argument that publicly owned land should ever be sold to a private developer to build homes for sale at full market prices. The state should set up a state owned development firm and built homes at cost price on publicly owned land (circa 150 to 180k for a 3 bed terrace).

It's no harm, you will still have plenty of people willing to pay 450K for the ugly monstrosity new builds that have come about in the last 5 or 6 years.

LuckyLloyd · 27-06-2021 1:48pm

salonfire wrote: »

Yes, it is good to see Fine Gael continuously focus on the hypocrisy of SF. We know how stupid the electorate is so the more negative spin dumped on the IRA supporters and enemies of the State the better. Just to reinforce to people who SF are. Don't forget SF want Special Criminal Court stopped.

I hope the attacks and digging into the antics of SF continue to ramp up.

How would you say it’s been going on that front? Do you feel like progress is being made? Because the polls would beg to differ.

LuckyLloyd · 27-06-2021 1:52pm

I think the best thing FFG could do is get to a position where their positive impact on the housing crisis is obvious and easily explained to the average voter. Right now, their argument is very complicated and excuse laden. But that’s up to them in the end.

padd b1975 · 27-06-2021 2:09pm

crooked cockney villain wrote: »

I am as far removed from left wing politics as you could imagine. However there is absolutely no argument that publicly owned land should ever be sold to a private developer to build homes for sale at full market prices. The state should set up a state owned development firm and built homes at cost price on publicly owned land (circa 150 to 180k for a 3 bed terrace).

It's no harm, you will still have plenty of people willing to pay 450K for the ugly monstrosity new builds that have come about in the last 5 or 6 years.

Would the "Peoples Building Company" be expected to tender fairly against privately owned firms.

How would this be monitored?

27-06-2021 3:16pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

How would you say it’s been going on that front? Do you feel like progress is being made? Because the polls would beg to differ.

Going excellently. SF are not in power and never will be. FG, FF will always ensure to go into coalition with other like-minded parties to keep Pearse Doherty and his ranting and raving off the handles of power,.

tipptom · 27-06-2021 3:40pm

salonfire wrote: »

30 years ago?

Just this month, SF refused to back the Special Criminal Court and attended memorials for garda killers.

How do SF intend to provide more housing by blocking more housing? Square that circle there in your own head, genius.

Wow,your an angry little maneen,bet you dont talk to people like that face to face.

27-06-2021 3:42pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

FG marketing in a nutshell.

Am I wrong? The electorate is stupid. Already hood-winked by Bertie by his low tax, high spending policies. Now more of the electorate are hitching to the SF wagon hoping for more of the same again and feck the consequences.

27-06-2021 3:45pm

tipptom wrote: »

[/B]

Wow,your an angry little maneen,bet you dont talk to people like that face to face.

I like the way you explained how SF could provide more housing by actually blocking more housing. What a well-thought response you provided there.

tipptom · 27-06-2021 3:53pm

salonfire wrote: »

I like the way you explained how SF could provide more housing by actually blocking more housing. What a well-thought response you provided there.

They are not blocking them,read the report,FF,SDs and SF have objected to it because they want to know what they intend to build on it and rightly so.
FG object to housing planning the whole time especcially if its ordinary housing in affluent areas.

The people wont accept going back to the times of giving the develepors carte blanche to do whatever they want to do and rape the country again.

You still did not answer the question,do you talk to people like that face to face?

28-06-2021 8:57am

tipptom wrote: »

They are not blocking them,read the report,FF,SDs and SF have objected to it because they want to know what they intend to build on it and rightly so.
FG object to housing planning the whole time especcially if its ordinary housing in affluent areas.

The people wont accept going back to the times of giving the develepors carte blanche to do whatever they want to do and rape the country again.

You still did not answer the question,do you talk to people like that face to face?

If SF are going to oppose all developments if they contain private housing, how are people going to buy their homes?

The great Irish electorate. Desperate to own their own home but hitch on to the party that only wants to build social housing.

jimmycrackcorm · 28-06-2021 9:56am

Muahahaha wrote:

The ultimate in NIMBYism

I think the ultimate in NIMBYism is people believing SF are going to fix the housing crisis whipe Eoin o Broin objects to a development in his constituency. Contrary to what SF fans would have us believe, his objection was against social housing being built by the council itself.

Shebean · 28-06-2021 6:58pm

salonfire wrote: »

Am I wrong? The electorate is stupid. Already hood-winked by Bertie by his low tax, high spending policies. Now more of the electorate are hitching to the SF wagon hoping for more of the same again and feck the consequences.

What's your opinion on the people voted Fianna Fail or worse, Fine Gael?
What's your view on the housing situation and FG's handling of it and those who support them?
SF are looking to build more social housing to tackle housing. FG are planning to carry on as is and solve the housing crisis. Who's talking out their barney the most do you reckon? You are criticising people for allegedly wanting what FF did last time out, while ignoring the fact they are in now and with FG :rolleyes:
It's no wonder people are looking elsewhere. Even FG are mimicking SF.

Sinn Fein has opposed building of 6,000 homes across Dublin - Fine Gael

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