Murder at the Cottage | Sky

Marcusm · 21-06-2021 12:27pm

I told ya wrote: »

They were around Dublin in the late eighties. Granted, big awkward things, poor battery life and poor reception. Technology moves very fast. I had a mobile phone in 1992, a Motorolla brick but worked ok. By 1996 they were planning move to GSM phones with the 088 being phased out. Mobile phones were all the rage back then. Remember Denis O'Brien and ESAT.

GSM phones were available by early 1995 but were still very uncommon. In Dec 1996, very few people had a mobile phone of any sort. It was my first Christmas trip back to Ireland from working in London and mine (which was no great shakes) attracted lots of attention amongst well paid Dublin professionals. Most gardai would have had service radios etc so would be less likely to have invested in a mobile phone. By 1998/9 all that would change.

coolisin · 21-06-2021 12:46pm

I told ya wrote: »

Watched about 35 minutes of E1.

Couldn't believe the Guard from the Technical Bureau say that when they arrived in W Cork, the local Garda Station was closed for the night and they did not have a mobile phone. Whatever about not having an official mobile phone, I would be amassed if at least one of them did not have a personal mobile.

Also, left Dublin at 3.30pm and arrived in W Cork at 10pm. Yes. I accept 23 December traffic and no M7/M8, Jack Lynch Tunnel etc but effectively, a day wasted. Could they not have used a bit of top brass pressure/back channels and get the Aer Corps to helicopter some of them there with basic equipment.

Looks v poor from the outside, IMO for what it's worth.

God I hated the traffic heading down the country in those days!!
No motorway after naas heading into kildare town, was portlaoise even bypassed in 96.
We lived between Borris in Ossray and Roscrea and it could take you 3-4 hours to get there from Dublin.

Had the Gaurds even got the helicopter and plane yet, I remember the big deal about them getting the helicopter in the late 90's

As for phones, i remember in 1995/96 down around dingle my uncles mobile phone barely working.
Mobile phones where more common in 97, 98

Only watched the first couple episodes so far, my wife knows nothing about it, I've listened to the West Cork Podcast.
So its all kind of "spoiled" on me. We are both in agreement that Jim Sheridan is not made for the narrator of a story.

Larsso30 · 21-06-2021 1:39pm

Just starting the last episode.

Great to see location and imagery of house etc and see Bailey react on camera But so far I've seen nothing new at all, West Cork still surprior for me.

Unless the episode takes a dramatic turn there is no other viable suspect offered here. Bailey is a train wreck, I feel so sorry for his partner who is living with an alcoholic narcissistic gob****e.

I still have major questions about the garda and their absolute failure in this case and I am no closer to saying it was Bailey than I was before. His wearabouts that night and his reluctance to discuss his alibi in start of the last episode is the only thing I can say makes it possible to be him. There is nothing else only hearsay and that's because of the pathetic job done by the garda

Really conflicted about Bailey and his guilt. He is not a good person that is certain but really can't believe this went to trial in France

Butson · 21-06-2021 1:53pm

Watched the first 2 episodes, thought it was good. Not sure why Sheridan is including himself so much. West Cork does look stunning though.

Worth bearing in mind that this is for a UK audience, 99% of which have never heard of the case.

Cona44 · 21-06-2021 1:56pm

Ive always said that the answer in this case is most likely the simplest one. To often, we look for far flung theories about what may have happened and this gets gradually worse as time goes on.

For me, its quite simple. Whoever did this, had to know the area well. On top of that, if it was a local they would have had marks to the body in some form. Bailey was a known vicious, womaniser who was close to killing his own partner.
He was wearing the long dark black jacket that all of a sudden went missing as part of a bonfire in the following days. His hands were destroyed in cuts as well as a nick to the face.

In my opinion, its a bit far fetched for all the above to be a coincidence. The guards knew this too as well as many locals. But without any DNA evidence they knew they would have to prove it by other means. Marie Farrell was the absolute bombshell though. I cannot figure out why she inserted herself into this case at all. I can only guess she wanted a bit of fame which ultimately backfired on her.

I think she probably did see Bailey on Ceal Fada bridge that night. The rest seemed to be lies forced out of her by gardai. Who was in the car with her though and why would she not release the info. She should have been arrested and prosecuted for not supplying this info.

jones · 21-06-2021 2:12pm

Cona44 wrote: »

Ive always said that the answer in this case is most likely the simplest one. To often, we look for far flung theories about what may have happened and this gets gradually worse as time goes on.

For me, its quite simple. Whoever did this, had to know the area well. On top of that, if it was a local they would have had marks to the body in some form. Bailey was a known vicious, womaniser who was close to killing his own partner.
He was wearing the long dark black jacket that all of a sudden went missing as part of a bonfire in the following days. His hands were destroyed in cuts as well as a nick to the face.

In my opinion, its a bit far fetched for all the above to be a coincidence. The guards knew this too as well as many locals. But without any DNA evidence they knew they would have to prove it by other means. Marie Farrell was the absolute bombshell though. I cannot figure out why she inserted herself into this case at all. I can only guess she wanted a bit of fame which ultimately backfired on her.

I think she probably did see Bailey on Ceal Fada bridge that night. The rest seemed to be lies forced out of her by gardai. Who was in the car with her though and why would she not release the info. She should have been arrested and prosecuted for not supplying this info.

Totally agree with the above. To my mind Bailey is guilty as sin and a total narcissist with a known history of violence - it wouldn't surprise me if he admits to it on his deathbed (even if he didn't do it) just to get one last bit of attention. But come on who the feck did this if not him? The phantom French dude? Not likely.

I think the Gardai all 'knew' it was him too and they definitely acted strangely themselves in trying to get him convicted but i think it all came from trying to get their man. The less said about Marie Farrell the better, absolute train crash of a person IMO and definitely knows more than she's saying. None of her story makes sense at all even taking into account the affair.

I haven't actually watched this yet but will start tonight but finished west Cork recently and loved it.

am_zarathustra · 21-06-2021 2:12pm

Cona44 wrote: »

Ive always said that the answer in this case is most likely the simplest one. To often, we look for far flung theories about what may have happened and this gets gradually worse as time goes on.

For me, its quite simple. Whoever did this, had to know the area well. On top of that, if it was a local they would have had marks to the body in some form. Bailey was a known vicious, womaniser who was close to killing his own partner.
He was wearing the long dark black jacket that all of a sudden went missing as part of a bonfire in the following days. His hands were destroyed in cuts as well as a nick to the face.

In my opinion, its a bit far fetched for all the above to be a coincidence. The guards knew this too as well as many locals. But without any DNA evidence they knew they would have to prove it by other means. Marie Farrell was the absolute bombshell though. I cannot figure out why she inserted herself into this case at all. I can only guess she wanted a bit of fame which ultimately backfired on her.

I think she probably did see Bailey on Ceal Fada bridge that night. The rest seemed to be lies forced out of her by gardai. Who was in the car with her though and why would she not release the info. She should have been arrested and prosecuted for not supplying this info.

The coat was found, and processed. Nothing found on it. Not a speck of blood on a coat with below freezing temp outside.

Marie F was with a married man that night, apparently he has passed away since which is why she came forward with the truth. But I'd agree, with the tooing and froing I'd be suspicious of anything she said.

The burden of proof is high in Ireland, and rightly so. Being a strange person who is violent when drunk would damn 10% of men his age in the country, a sad indictment of our country but we can't pin every murder on the local eccentric without actual evidence. Maybe he did it, maybe he didn't but the local guards made damn sure the truth would be hard to find.

Munstergirl854 · 21-06-2021 2:21pm

Has anyone heard the theory about the local married guard who is now deceased?
Violent temper with a history of affairs...

I heard it years ago but if someone local could add more detail that would be great.

Apologies if it has been mentioned I havnt read this thread or watched doc yet.

am_zarathustra · 21-06-2021 3:38pm

I've heard that one too, again from a local but I'd know cases in my own locality with odd stories surrounding them that have grown legs so I'd take it with a pinch of salt. It might explain a lot of the missing bits from the case, it's a cover up or the most shambolic investigation I've even seen.

Radio5 · 21-06-2021 4:11pm

Watched the 1st episode last night. Was surprised to learn that at least 1 of the houses close to Sophie's house was occupied. I thought they were holiday homes which were empty at that time of year. Strange that those people heard nothing given their proximity.
The murderer clearly knew the area well, it didn't look like somewhere you'd be just passing by chance and you'd need to know your way out. Given the location, there weren't likely to be too many witnesses out and about.

I doubt that anyone will ever be found guilty at this stage. Forensic evidence was crucial and that seems to have been one of many failings in the investigation.

There was a lot of hyped up Hollywood style even in 1 episode, with Jim at the centre of it. I'm not sure what bearing the Civil War had on the whole thing. Beal na mBlath is a tidy step from Toormore, it's not as if it's just down the road. I guess all of this and the endless landscape / coastal shots are for the UK/US audience.

AdrianG08 · 21-06-2021 4:13pm

I am enjoying this, i've read and listened to so much about the case but apart from a picture of the house it was hard to get an image of the setting in its entirety.

Had no idea about the close proximity of the neighbours. Would have liked to see some hypothesising from investigating officers basically retracing the steps they believe were taken on the night.

Do they suspect someone came into her house?

Do they think she fled and if so why run down the road rather than to a neighbours house? Was a strange move legging it down the hill towards the gate which was taking her further from safety if anything. Or was she subdued in the house and carried down the road and killed?

Just little things like that, countless hours of playing out how events transpired can unlock some microcosm of evidence that can lead to even bigger leads. The Garda work was trully dreadful.

We will never know, but I don't think Bailey did it (speculating myself of course). I think someone was sent from France to do it, but then the means of killing her doesn't fit an execution style that would possibly display, but its a theory I suppose

Marcusm · 21-06-2021 4:20pm

am_zarathustra wrote: »

The coat was found, and processed. Nothing found on it. Not a speck of blood on a coat with below freezing temp outside.

Marie F was with a married man that night, apparently he has passed away since which is why she came forward with the truth. But I'd agree, with the tooing and froing I'd be suspicious of anything she said.

The burden of proof is high in Ireland, and rightly so. Being a strange person who is violent when drunk would damn 10% of men his age in the country, a sad indictment of our country but we can't pin every murder on the local eccentric without actual evidence. Maybe he did it, maybe he didn't but the local guards made damn sure the truth would be hard to find.

The other odd thing which was never mentioned was why he would have been at that bridge in any event. As I understand the location, that would have been in the opposite direction to his/Jules Thomas’s house which was 4.2km away by the more direct route. Going via Kealfadda Bridge would have doubled that.

Deeec · 21-06-2021 4:26pm

AdrianG08 wrote: »

I am enjoying this, i've read and listened to so much about the case but apart from a picture of the house it was hard to get an image of the setting in its entirety.

Had no idea about the close proximity of the neighbours. Would have liked to see some hypothesising from investigating officers basically retracing the steps they believe were taken on the night.

Do they suspect someone came into her house?

Do they think she fled and if so why run down the road rather than to a neighbours house? Was a strange move legging it down the hill towards the gate which was taking her further from safety if anything. Or was she subdued in the house and carried down the road and killed?

Just little things like that, countless hours of playing out how events transpired can unlock some microcosm of evidence that can lead to even bigger leads. The Garda work was trully dreadful.

We will never know, but I don't think Bailey did it. I think someone was sent from France to do it, but then the means of killing her doesn't fit an execution style that would possibly display.

Last night it mentioned she was wearing her night clothes and boots. If she was fleeing from somebody would she have had time to put on boots?
Also if she was trying to get away from somebody why did she go towards the road? Why didnt she go towards her neighbours house which was close by?

Did she go down to open the gate for somebody?

marvin80 · 21-06-2021 4:27pm

Radio5 wrote: »

Watched the 1st episode last night. Was surprised to learn that at least 1 of the houses close to Sophie's house was occupied. I thought they were holiday homes which were empty at that time of year.

Came across this when I was looking up bits about the case last night:

https://www.buzz.ie/news/neighbour-murdered-french-filmmaker-sophie-23995031

https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/detached-house-dreenane-toormore-goleen-co-cork/3182114

listermint · 21-06-2021 4:28pm

Throwing stuff into water is nearly number one evidence disposal that people do .

Hangdogroad · 21-06-2021 4:28pm

Marcusm wrote: »

GSM phones were available by early 1995 but were still very uncommon. In Dec 1996, very few people had a mobile phone of any sort. It was my first Christmas trip back to Ireland from working in London and mine (which was no great shakes) attracted lots of attention amongst well paid Dublin professionals. Most gardai would have had service radios etc so would be less likely to have invested in a mobile phone. By 1998/9 all that would change.

Yeah, it wasn't till 97/98 that mobiles became really commonplace. I got my first one in 98 and I remember the reception being virtually non existant travelling in some rural areas especially if you had hills or mountains.

lalababa · 21-06-2021 4:29pm

One really can't believe much stories from local country areas as they have nothing better to do than to make up or give legs to innocent scenes. They might see a married man talking to a young woman and a week later lo and behold tis 'all around' that he's having an affair.
So tis hard to believe a word of 'stories'.

Larsso30 · 21-06-2021 4:45pm

One thing I do agree with the garda is that I do think it had to be someone local.

In many ways it makes more sense if the person who did it had a link to France but just because of the location I have to believe its a local or familiar with the area and also the sheer violence of the murder screams not a planned execution

Deeec · 21-06-2021 4:59pm

Larsso30 wrote: »

One thing I do agree with the garda is that I do think it had to be someone local.

In many ways it makes more sense if the person who did it had a link to France but just because of the location I have to believe its a local or familiar with the area and also the sheer violence of the murder screams not a planned execution

It wouldnt be that difficult for someone to figure out the locality if they had time to plan the murder.

Her husbands reaction to her death was very strange. Sophie died in December 1996, he had a new baby with another women by March 1998 and was remarried by June 1998. He didnt mourn Sophie for very long. I know he was in France when she was murdered but it wouldnt be impossible for him to organise her murder. He had money and power. The gardai discounted him as a suspect very quickly as he was in France. I doubt if the gardai ever investigated any theories relating to France.

I told ya · 21-06-2021 5:05pm

Deeec wrote: »

It wouldnt be that difficult for someone to figure out the locality if they had time to plan the murder.

Her husbands reaction to her death was very strange. Sophie died in December 1996, he had a new baby with another women by March 1998 and was remarried by June 1998. He didnt mourn Sophie for very long. I know he was in France when she was murdered but it wouldnt be impossible for him to organise her murder. He had money and power. The gardai discounted him as a suspect very quickly as he was in France. I doubt if the gardai ever investigated any theories relating to France.

Listening to the Jim Sheridan on RTE yesterday with Brendan O'Connor, he said that the Gardai went to France and the local police told them to go home. Got no co-operation.

Yet, the French police were allowed to conduct interviews in Ireland, on at least two occasions IIRC. Had at least one meeting with Dermot Aherne Minister for Justice, presumably a number of meetings/communications with senior Gardai and were given the Garda files to boot. Which they then used for the French court case.

Seems strange alright.

odyssey06 · 21-06-2021 5:11pm

Larsso30 wrote: »

One thing I do agree with the garda is that I do think it had to be someone local.

In many ways it makes more sense if the person who did it had a link to France but just because of the location I have to believe its a local or familiar with the area and also the sheer violence of the murder screams not a planned execution

You're assuming that just because someone is hired to do a murder, they are consummate pros who know what they are about ... crime cases are filled with 'amateurs' hired to do a murder who make a botch of it in one way or another. They can panic too.
Or conversely, you may not want it to look like a professional execution... this wasn't a mafia informant...

am_zarathustra · 21-06-2021 5:25pm

I told ya wrote: »

Listening to the Jim Sheridan on RTE yesterday with Brendan O'Connor, he said that the Gardai went to France and the local police told them to go home. Got no co-operation.

Yet, the French police were allowed to conduct interviews in Ireland, on at least two occasions IIRC. Had at least one meeting with Dermot Aherne Minister for Justice, presumably a number of meetings/communications with senior Gardai and were given the Garda files to boot. Which they then used for the French court case.

Seems strange alright.

The husband was also a good friend of Chirac so it makes more sense in that context. He wasn't going to allow garda to come an interview the hoi polloi of the french cultural scene. The french have conducted a witch hunt by all accounts. Hearsay is a ludicrous thing to consider in a trial given than eye witness testimony is not even particularly accurate.

It wonder how hard it would be to sneak around that area though, it's small, lots of dead ends, nosy people in general. Hard to believe a lad in a beret in a small town in 96 wasn't noticed by more people, we'd have nearly followed him in my town just for something to do as kids. We'd have definitely asked if he was from France.

odyssey06 · 21-06-2021 5:38pm

am_zarathustra wrote: »

The husband was also a good friend of Chirac so it makes more sense in that context. He wasn't going to allow garda to come an interview the hoi polloi of the french cultural scene. The french have conducted a witch hunt by all accounts. Hearsay is a ludicrous thing to consider in a trial given than eye witness testimony is not even particularly accurate.

It wonder how hard it would be to sneak around that area though, it's small, lots of dead ends, nosy people in general. Hard to believe a lad in a beret in a small town in 96 wasn't noticed by more people, we'd have nearly followed him in my town just for something to do as kids. We'd have definitely asked if he was from France.

The person hired wouldnt have to be french though. They could even be sonewhat local.

hole in my lovelywall · 21-06-2021 6:04pm

Deeec wrote: »

Last night it mentioned she was wearing her night clothes and boots. If she was fleeing from somebody would she have had time to put on boots?
Also if she was trying to get away from somebody why did she go towards the road? Why didnt she go towards her neighbours house which was close by?

Did she go down to open the gate for somebody?

The impression I got was that she may have been expecting a caller and went out to let them in.

Was there ever an explanation or scenario proposed for how her blood got on her door?

robwen · 21-06-2021 6:15pm

Did Bailey ever reveal/explain his sources for the ITK stories he was writing about the murder at the time?

Larsso30 · 21-06-2021 6:17pm

robwen wrote: »

Did Bailey ever reveal/explain his sources for the ITK stories he was writing about the murder at the time?

It is not beyond the realms of possiblity that a local garda gave him that info, especially back then. (not surprised if it was to happen now either!)

That never convinced me of baileys guilt tbh, that's his job to have sources

gmisk · 21-06-2021 8:00pm

Deeec wrote: »

It wouldnt be that difficult for someone to figure out the locality if they had time to plan the murder.

Her husbands reaction to her death was very strange. Sophie died in December 1996, he had a new baby with another women by March 1998 and was remarried by June 1998. He didnt mourn Sophie for very long. I know he was in France when she was murdered but it wouldnt be impossible for him to organise her murder. He had money and power. The gardai discounted him as a suspect very quickly as he was in France. I doubt if the gardai ever investigated any theories relating to France.

Were they not seperated for a good while before her death though?
Not impossible for him to arrange it.

From what I have have seen and read previously, I think Bailey is the most likely person to have killed her. I do think the Gardai made a hash of things (the gate disappearing is bizarre) and tried to engineer some evidence (not unlike making a murderer).

Larsso30 · 21-06-2021 8:36pm

The international hitman angle is just a bit to far fetched for me. The violence involved in the murder says a lot about the crime.

After seeing the show I was surprised how close she was to her neighbours and a little surprised nothing was heard.

lukin · 21-06-2021 10:00pm

The time of death was never established which was a big handicap in finding the killer. John Harbison was very unprofessional to not get to the scene of the crime as soon as possible. He knew he could get away with it I suppose.
The Garda investigation was inept, no doubt about that. Deliberately inept?
Possibly so. What has come to light in the years since regarding Garda corruption makes that easy to believe. The Gardai were not used to dealing with homicides so that was another factor in the mishandling of the case.
Also the time of year being Christmas didn't help. A sort of an Irish "erra I can't be a###d attitude" was there I think. It doesn't matter if it is Christmas though, you still have to do your job.
All in all a bit of a cock-up, the Irish justice system failed Sophie and her poor family. I know murders occur all the time and the killer is not brought to justice but it still makes me sad.

Taeholic · 21-06-2021 10:04pm

hole in my lovelywall wrote: »

The impression I got was that she may have been expecting a caller and went out to let them in.

Was there ever an explanation or scenario proposed for how her blood got on her door?

I'm just as conflicted as I was before I watched the show.
No blood anywhere in the house only on the door?

If she went to let someone in, then how did her blood end up on only the door and her body/scene of murder was found at the gate? It makes no sense to me. Surely there would have been a trail of blood. Up or down

Incompetence of the Gardai maybe? Her body being left overnight is shocking and disturbing. How does a gate disappear also?

Ian Bailey gives me the creeps but the only parts that swayed my opinion towards his guilt was his previous assault on his partner. And his behaviour when asked about his alibi in the final episode.

GerardKeating · 21-06-2021 10:06pm

lukin wrote: »

John Harbison was very unprofessional to not get to the scene of the crime as soon as possible.

Was that his fault ?

I remember a few times, we had crimes at opposite ends of the country and he could only be in one place at a time. I don't remember the reason (if any was ever given) for the delay.

Taeholic · 21-06-2021 10:12pm

gmisk wrote: »

Were they not seperated for a good while before her death though?
Not impossible for him to arrange it.

I'm sure her family said she was due to fly home on 24th to spend Christmas with her husband and son. Something else I didn't understand was her husband told her parents he had been speaking to Sophie an hour previous to the news breaking in France. Which was several hours later from what I can gather. And then his son calls to tell her parents to tell them it is Sophie, not him?

He certainly didn't seem to grieve too long and who doesn't get on a flight immediately when they learn their wife has been murdered. Bizarre behaviour but we didn't see any interviews from him either.

ACitizenErased · 21-06-2021 10:12pm

I quite enjoyed it. Went in without much knowledge of the case despite being from Cork.

Found it quite suspicious that Bailey knew the outcome of the post mortem prior to it being conducted. Was a bit strange.
There were times throughout it where I said "he's 100% guilty" and other times where I said "the guards are stitching him up". Will need more time to process it.
What a bizarre story it all is.

am_zarathustra · 21-06-2021 10:18pm

GerardKeating wrote: »

Was that his fault ?

I remember a few times, we had crimes at opposite ends of the country and he could only be in one place at a time. I don't remember the reason (if any was ever given) for the delay.

He'd taken a rare day off for his birthday. He was 60 I think so was at his own party. To be fair he could have had a couple of drinks by the time he got the call given how slow they were out of Bandon.

But yeah, like you said he was the only one in the country, our murder rate actually goes through fluctuations depending on how many Coronors we had on the books, a scary thought really

Comparing it to the Phylis Murphy case nearly a decade and a half earlier the lack of process is really stark. They didn't even know for sure they could ever test DNA and all the sample, and sample from the community were stored and kept almost 20 years and they eventually got the guy, sterling work in that case. In the 90s they would have been aware of forensics, they should have called murder squad immediately, there are plenty of murder investigations in Ireland at the time and before for comparison!

jones · 21-06-2021 10:26pm

ACitizenErased wrote:

There were times throughout it where I said "he's 100% guilty" and other times where I said "the guards are stitching him up". Will need more time to process it. What a bizarre story it all is.

I think in this case both things are true

notahappycamper · 21-06-2021 10:36pm

Just finished it there. As others have said, nothing new in it. An absolute mess of a case how it was handled. Did we really need to see Bailey pulling one of his teeth out with a pliers?!

21-06-2021 11:09pm

Marcusm wrote: »

Not great at all; some insight into the character of Bailey, poignant scenes with the son at the cottage but overall little in the way of analysis. Sheridan spent too much time on camera, it’s not his forte. His scene-setting in the first 10 minutes was difficult to endure. And yes, I have watched all episodes despite the beautiful day outside.

I agree.I think its terrible. Watched 15 mins. Does it get better? Sheridan injecting himself into it makes it seems like its more about him.A lot of modern docs are like that about the presenter. Sheridan doesn't have the voice for narration either

Cona44 · 21-06-2021 11:25pm

Just finished watching it all. I got an answer to the question I previously had about the black coat which I thought he burned in the fire, but apparently the guards took it (and now it’s missing?)

How can a gate go missing? Why is missing?

Sophie’s blood on the door, I would imagine came from the killers hand, who I’m guessing made his way up to the house to maybe look around.

It’s extraordinary there wasn’t more evidence. We’re the guards that bad? Or was the killer that good....

I really hope these documentaries actually try to progress the case some day rather than just reporting on it. There are some questions that need further clarification

robwen · 21-06-2021 11:43pm

Looks like there'll be another series, Sheridan was on the radio this morning saying there's more to come focusing moreso on the French side

https://www.goloudnow.com/podcasts/dermot-dave-65/theres-more-to-come-jim-sheridan-talks-about-murder-at-the-cottage-286273

Technophobe · 22-06-2021 12:24am

Have followed this case for years and have only watched the 1st episode but found Jim to be off kilter quite a bit in some of his statements!
For example, he stated about the area known as "3 castle head" something like " why would anyone want to come here alone"?
Thought it was weird thing to say (although not affecting what happened her, unless you count the White Lady sightings!) about an area that most people (especially spiritual or nature loving) would happily visit alone..

vladmydad · 22-06-2021 6:58am

It’s clear to me the killer was known to her. The fact she went there at Christmas time is very strange. This nonsense about fixing the heating. The parents told her in September but she goes over at Christmas to fix it ? Also we know she had an affair before, actually at the house. So I think she may have being having an affair with someone at the time. It would explain the lack of crime scene inside. Also she was wearing boots so there was no chase, she went outside of her own accord. Walking someone out or letting someone in at the gate ? She knew her killer and he was almost certainly local. Another possibilitie is the Man who lived next door ? She would have known him, did he go late at night about something then made a pass ? Sneak back in without the wife knowing. Was his finger prints, hair etc taken . Was their house searched.

Larsso30 · 22-06-2021 8:12am

Taeholic wrote: »

I'm just as conflicted as I was before I watched the show.
No blood anywhere in the house only on the door?

If she went to let someone in, then how did her blood end up on only the door and her body/scene of murder was found at the gate? It makes no sense to me. Surely there would have been a trail of blood. Up or down

Incompetence of the Gardai maybe? Her body being left overnight is shocking and disturbing. How does a gate disappear also?

Ian Bailey gives me the creeps but the only parts that swayed my opinion towards his guilt was his previous assault on his partner. And his behaviour when asked about his alibi in the final episode.

His avoiding his alibi question in he final episode is the only bit that stood out to me also. But he was pissed so maybe had some sort of sense to realise he needs to keep his mouth shut. That is the one piece that will nail him if he makes a change to his alibi. Attack on Jules and the pictures were very striking I agree. But like you I left with very little else to convince me he's guilty.

Taeholic · 22-06-2021 8:32am

Larsso30 wrote: »

His avoiding his alibi question in he final episode is the only bit that stood out to me also. But he was pissed so maybe had some sort of sense to realise he needs to keep his mouth shut. That is the one piece that will nail him if he makes a change to his alibi. Attack on Jules and the pictures were very striking I agree. But like you I left with very little else to convince me he's guilty.

I completely agree. I think Ian Bailey loves the attention and notoriety of being the chief suspect for whatever bizarre reason. I can't understand Jules standing by him until this year, there wasn't an ounce of love displayed between the two of them. Strange relationship.

Perhaps the rumour of the late Garda being the killer is credible. I wonder why this was never mentioned past the comment from Ian about the blue Ford being driven erratically. Either way Sophie never got justice.

Taeholic · 22-06-2021 8:35am

vladmydad wrote: »

It’s clear to me the killer was known to her. The fact she went there at Christmas time is very strange. This nonsense about fixing the heating. The parents told her in September but she goes over at Christmas to fix it ? Also we know she had an affair before, actually at the house. So I think she may have being having an affair with someone at the time. It would explain the lack of crime scene inside. Also she was wearing boots so there was no chase, she went outside of her own accord. Walking someone out or letting someone in at the gate ? She knew her killer and he was almost certainly local. Another possibilitie is the Man who lived next door ? She would have known him, did he go late at night about something then made a pass ? Sneak back in without the wife knowing. Was his finger prints, hair etc taken . Was their house searched.

Agreed about the heating story, it doesn't make sense. Apparently Sophie had a strained relationship with the neighbours but definitely plausible. Considering we know she fought for her life, how did they not hear a sound? Even with the windows closed, it's the middle of nowhere you'd hear a car coming a mile off much less a woman screaming repeatedly.

Deeec · 22-06-2021 8:50am

Taeholic wrote: »

I completely agree. I think Ian Bailey loves the attention and notoriety of being the chief suspect for whatever bizarre reason. I can't understand Jules standing by him until this year, there wasn't an ounce of love displayed between the two of them. Strange relationship.

Perhaps the rumour of the late Garda being the killer is credible. I wonder why this was never mentioned past the comment from Ian about the blue Ford being driven erratically. Either way Sophie never got justice.

I agree Bailey is an crazy attention seeker. On the day of the french court verdict going to the market was pure attention seeking - most rational people would stay away from public places but he wanted the attention.

The 70th birthday party for Jules was uncomfortable watching. I feel so sorry for Jules that she has wasted a good chunk of her life with Bailey.

He is a very odd man but I still dont think he murdered Sophie.

fryup · 22-06-2021 9:06am

Deeec wrote: »

Her husbands reaction to her death was very strange. Sophie died in December 1996, he had a new baby with another women by March 1998 and was remarried by June 1998. He didnt mourn Sophie for very long.

hmmm baby born in march 98 would have been conceived in the summer of 97 just 6 months or so after her death, not very mournful behaviour alright..although maybe their marriage was on the wain anyway, both having extra marital affairs?

Deeec wrote: »

Last night it mentioned she was wearing her night clothes and boots. If she was fleeing from somebody would she have had time to put on boots?
Also if she was trying to get away from somebody why did she go towards the road? Why didnt she go towards her neighbours house which was close by?

Did she go down to open the gate for somebody?

she definitely knew her killer and was expecting him (or her- who knows) that night, a heated argument ensued and she was killed in a fit of rage ....and as others have alluded to i find it hard to understand how her neighbours didn't hear any commotion unless they were heavy sleepers

odyssey06 · 22-06-2021 9:16am

fryup wrote: »

she definitely knew her killer and was expecting him (or her- who knows) that night, a heated argument ensued and she was killed in a fit of rage ....and as others have alluded to i find it hard to understand how her neighbours didn't hear any commotion unless they were heavy sleepers

And, correct me if wrong here, but nothing to suggest that 'person known to her' was Bailey?

Was it windy that night? Could sounds have carried in a different direction?

AdrianG08 · 22-06-2021 9:31am

fryup wrote: »

hmmm baby born in march 98 would have been conceived in the summer of 97 just 6 months or so after her death, not very mournful behaviour alright..although maybe their marriage was on the wain anyway, both having extra marital affairs?

she definitely knew her killer and was expecting him (or her- who knows) that night, a heated argument ensued and she was killed in a fit of rage ....and as others have alluded to i find it hard to understand how her neighbours didn't hear any commotion unless they were heavy sleepers

Very plausible the neighbours heard nothing. Winter time, high winds, rough seas could drown out most noises.

Whats startling in alot of these cases (not just sophies) is how the cops draw their own conclusion and only follow that single line of enquiry. When you hear in some cases certain people not even being questioned the mind really boggles, it only takes a few hours.

The Gardai being sent home with their tails between there legs is just so Irish, not wanting to rock the both with our EU superiors.

I wonder did she travel much in Ireland outside of West Cork during her previous travels here? Possibly meet another man from elsewhere in Ireland who had visited her from time to time? There is potentially an individual nobody has even mentioned (non local) who was very familiar with where she lived.

G1032 · 22-06-2021 9:54am

lukin wrote: »

The time of death was never established which was a big handicap in finding the killer. John Harbison was very unprofessional to not get to the scene of the crime as soon as possible. He knew he could get away with it I suppose.
The Garda investigation was inept, no doubt about that. Deliberately inept?
Possibly so. What has come to light in the years since regarding Garda corruption makes that easy to believe. The Gardai were not used to dealing with homicides so that was another factor in the mishandling of the case.
Also the time of year being Christmas didn't help. A sort of an Irish "erra I can't be a###d attitude" was there I think. It doesn't matter if it is Christmas though, you still have to do your job.
All in all a bit of a cock-up, the Irish justice system failed Sophie and her poor family. I know murders occur all the time and the killer is not brought to justice but it still makes me sad.

I think that by the time Harbison had been contacted it was then too late to determine time of death. Him rushing down to Cork wasn't going to change that fact

fryup · 22-06-2021 9:55am

AdrianG08 wrote: »

I wonder did she travel much in Ireland outside of West Cork during her previous travels here? Possibly meet another man from elsewhere in Ireland who had visited her from time to time? There is potentially an individual nobody has even mentioned (non local) who was very familiar with where she lived.

excellent point, we shouldn't concentrate on west cork all the time, more than likely she would have hired a car and travelled around the country on occasion

and also what airport did she use? Dublin? Cork? did she stay overnight in these city's? did she meet some guy in a bar? have a fling? countless possibilities to consider

Murder at the Cottage | Sky

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