Random Fitness Questions

Black Sheep · 28-05-2021 11:48AM

silverharp wrote: »

there is a guy Brignole who promotes not focusing on big lifts , I dont know what exactly he promotes but I'd guess he would be into something like a weighted sissy squat but much lower weights than a conventional back squat?

Doug Brignole. He's not the only one, and I think there is a slow shift back towards a recognition that for hypertrophy / physique goals the bodybuilding stuff that has been derided for the last few years has a lot of value.

I laid out the thinking in my post on the previous page, but basically, yeah, people like Paul Carter make the case that isolation exercises, often using machines, allow for some really effective training protocols that free weights don't, and encourage a more easy establishment of a mind-muscle connection with particular body part you're trying to train and grow.

He's not ****ting on compound barbell lifts, he still uses them if the person has the right leverages to be able to use them effectively for hypertrophy purposes, but people don't understand that the same things that make a compound barbell lift a great all-rounder mean that there is a time and a place where it is not the best choice / has inherent limitations. The example I gave is where someone is high bar squatting or front squatting and they think they're hammering their quads when really they might be far better off using a medley of machine work either in lieu or to accrue useful volume after their barbell work is done.

Carter is a big fan of the sissy squat, believes it is a very useful movement, there's some stuff on his IG about performing them.

It seems like people like to say things are rubbish, and then 10-15 years later the zeitgeist says those things are no longer rubbish, in fact they're rather good, and it goes on and on. It goes on and on. I like Stefi Cohen's view that "Everything works, and nothing works".

Cill94 · 28-05-2021 12:21PM

new2tri19 wrote: »

Met a polish guy today who was just back from underground gym secret knock job , anyways we got chatting about fitness and stuff he used to be a personal trainer in Poland .
In summary
He reckons you can't get big or muscular at home with a barbell and dumbells you need machines , loads of machine to isolate muscles lift really heavy and eat 6 chicken breasts a day .
Don't do deadlifts at all - risk/reward with injury is just not worth it .
Don't squat - use leg press machine .
Basically without machines you'll never progress and only lift 3 days a week .
Is that all bro science or has he a point . I don't necessarily want to get big but is it possible to make the same gains at home as someone in gym , if you have barbell and dumbells ?

People like this are well-intentioned, but if you listen to every guy who comes along with a hot take on training, you’ll end up going nowhere. Short answer is he’s wrong.

Somehow people managed to get big and strong for all the years before the advent of machines. That should tell you all you need to know.

caviardreams · 28-05-2021 07:45PM

new2tri19 wrote: »

Then he says " you married yeah " what do you do if you walk down street with wife and a man takes her off you ? Not much if you can't squat 95kg

:rolleyes: It might be ok - she might be able to squat 95kg herself (or, you know, just think and act independently, do what she wants herself, and not be controlled by men)

new2tri19 · 28-05-2021 07:52PM

caviardreams wrote: »

:rolleyes: It might be ok - she might be able to squat 95kg herself (or, you know, just think and act independently, do what she wants herself, and not be controlled by men)

As I said to your man listen if anyone takes my wife they'll soon return her

Mellor · 29-05-2021 04:11PM

frosty123 wrote: »

my GP wrote down "hypertension", I said that sounds bad could you write down above average blood pressure instead...he said NO! "I'm using the medical term" was he a bit mean? I mean the job application could hinge on this...

No he wasnt mean. You have hypertension.
If that excludes you from the job, there may be a reason.

Mellor · 30-05-2021 11:58AM

Black Sheep wrote: »

Probably the most controversial thing I'll say, but a lot of bodybuilders are probably right that if someone's sole goal is hypertrophy and overall size then depending on their body type and limb lengths they might be better served by not squatting, deadlifting etc and instead find movements that allow them to really train particular muscles in a meaningful, heavy way, with proper mind-muscle connection. Leg presses, hack squat, leg extension, leg curl and calf raises have developed a lot of big legs for people who may or may not also use a barbell.

it's definitely possible to train effectively with machines. And in some instances they offer benefits over free weights. If the guy said you don't need free weights to get big, he wouldn't be wrong.
But that's not what he said. He said you can't get big without machines. That's just wrong.

[QUOTE=new2tri19

Then he says " you married yeah " what do you do if you walk down street with wife and a man takes her off you ? Not much if you can't squat 95kg [/QUOTE]

I think the funniest part of the story is the fact that he thinks an overloaded leg-press turns him into a walking weapon. Guys really do have weird impression of self.

Dtp1979 · 30-05-2021 12:03PM

Mellor wrote: »

it's definitely possible to train effectively with machines. And in some instances they offer benefits over free weights. If the guy said you don't need free weights to get big, he wouldn't be wrong.
But that's not what he said. He said you can't get big without machines. That's just wrong.

I think the funniest part of the story is the fact that he thinks an overloaded leg-press turns him into a walking weapon. Guys really do have weird impression of self.

Asking someone how much they can leg press is akin to asking them how much Monopoly money they have.

03-06-2021 04:01PM

If you were limited to a 180mm bar because of space and we're given the choice, would you prefer a shorter bar in the middle with a narrower rack, or a normal rack and shorter sleeves?

I'm a pretty normal 65kg guy and wouldn't be using the full sleeves of any bar ever. Are there any disadvantages of a shorter bar and narrower rack?

Black Sheep · 03-06-2021 04:48PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If you were limited to a 180mm bar because of space and we're given the choice, would you prefer a shorter bar in the middle with a narrower rack, or a normal rack and shorter sleeves?

I'm a pretty normal 65kg guy and wouldn't be using the full sleeves of any bar ever. Are there any disadvantages of a shorter bar and narrower rack?

I’m struggling a little bit with what you’re asking, but I’d tend to suggest getting a normal sized rack either way, assuming you ever might want to sell it on.

I have quite a narrow rack, and it won’t rack certain speciality bars, it’s a pain.

When you say a shorter bar are you talking something like a Blk Box stinger bar?

03-06-2021 05:09PM

Black Sheep wrote: »

I’m struggling a little bit with what you’re asking, but I’d tend to suggest getting a normal sized rack either way, assuming you ever might want to sell it on.

I have quite a narrow rack, and it won’t rack certain speciality bars, it’s a pain.

When you say a shorter bar are you talking something like a Blk Box stinger bar?

I can't visit first to check. He says the rack would be 15cm-20cm narrower than a normal one to fit this smaller bar he has. Didn't think of specialty bars.. I'm just used to a regular Olympic bar in my gym..

Never heard of that type of bar. It's late here so I'll ask him tomorrow for dimensions of the bar.

new2tri19 · 21-06-2021 09:55AM

On seated overhead press the instruction on the strong app was to unrack the bar behind the neck. So I was planning to do 40kg sets but the limiting factor was the unracking. I was too weak to lift that way . I know there's alternatives like standing or unrack and move forward on bench but is there some weakness I should be addressing ?
Should you be able to unrack your 5-9 rep max ohp from behind your neck?
Thanks

Alf Veedersane · 21-06-2021 10:02AM

new2tri19 wrote: »

On seated overhead press the instruction on the strong app was to unrack the bar behind the neck. So I was planning to do 40kg sets but the limiting factor was the unracking. I was too weak to lift that way . I know there's alternatives like standing or unrack and move forward on bench but is there some weakness I should be addressing ?
Should you be able to unrack your 5-9 rep max ohp from behind your neck?
Thanks

It depends how far back it is....it doesn't need to be too far behind the bar path. Just enough that you're not clipping the j-hooks.

Sounds like it's just too far back and further back than it needs to be.

new2tri19 · 21-06-2021 02:08PM

Thanks Alf .
I'm back tracking my calories as I slipped back into missing protein targets .
How bad is supplementing twice a day to hit targets ?
I eat the same most days .

Breakfast
Morning protein shake 25g protein
Porridge on protein milk with fruit - 10g protein
Lunch
Tuna wrap with grated cheese -~35g or
Eggs whites 200ml and 2 eggs with brown bread ~ 35g
Dinner
Mostly some meat and veg or pasta ~ 50g protein
Snack
Fage yogurt fruit and 1scoop protein ~35g protein .

So around 50g a day is from powders .
And around 100g from meals
Is this bad ? I'd like to get more in through meals but struggle to have the appetite for it .
I weigh about 78kg so I need ~150.
Thanks

Brian? · 21-06-2021 02:14PM

new2tri19 wrote: »

Thanks Alf .
I'm back tracking my calories as I slipped back into missing protein targets .
How bad is supplementing twice a day to hit targets ?
I eat the same most days .

Breakfast
Morning protein shake 25g protein
Porridge on protein milk with fruit - 10g protein
Lunch
Tuna wrap with grated cheese -~35g or
Eggs whites 200ml and 2 eggs with brown bread ~ 35g
Dinner
Mostly some meat and veg or pasta ~ 50g protein
Snack
Fage yogurt fruit and 1scoop protein ~35g protein .

So around 50g a day is from powders .
And around 100g from meals
Is this bad ? I'd like to get more in through meals but struggle to have the appetite for it .
I weigh about 78kg so I need ~150.
Thanks

Can you not up the portion sizes at each meal? It

Black Sheep · 21-06-2021 02:16PM

new2tri19 wrote: »

Thanks Alf .
I'm back tracking my calories as I slipped back into missing protein targets .
How bad is supplementing twice a day to hit targets ?
I eat the same most days .

Breakfast
Morning protein shake 25g protein
Porridge on protein milk with fruit - 10g protein
Lunch
Tuna wrap with grated cheese -~35g or
Eggs whites 200ml and 2 eggs with brown bread ~ 35g
Dinner
Mostly some meat and veg or pasta ~ 50g protein
Snack
Fage yogurt fruit and 1scoop protein ~35g protein .

So around 50g a day is from powders .
And around 100g from meals
Is this bad ? I'd like to get more in through meals but struggle to have the appetite for it .
I weigh about 78kg so I need ~150.
Thanks

It's not "bad", it's probably just not optimal. Like you I have had plenty of days where two protein shakes are doing a lot of the heavy lifting in terms of protein intake, but if I can sub in some extra meat or (for example) a Skyr yoghurt, then I do.

Alf Veedersane · 21-06-2021 02:20PM

new2tri19 wrote: »

Thanks Alf .
I'm back tracking my calories as I slipped back into missing protein targets .
How bad is supplementing twice a day to hit targets ?
I eat the same most days .

Breakfast
Morning protein shake 25g protein
Porridge on protein milk with fruit - 10g protein
Lunch
Tuna wrap with grated cheese -~35g or
Eggs whites 200ml and 2 eggs with brown bread ~ 35g
Dinner
Mostly some meat and veg or pasta ~ 50g protein
Snack
Fage yogurt fruit and 1scoop protein ~35g protein .

So around 50g a day is from powders .
And around 100g from meals
Is this bad ? I'd like to get more in through meals but struggle to have the appetite for it .
I weigh about 78kg so I need ~150.
Thanks

I don't think you need as much as 150g. 110g or so would be fine.

https://mennohenselmans.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

A lot of the studies showed no additional benefit above 0.64 g/lb, which would be ca. 110g for you.

Brian? · 21-06-2021 02:27PM

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I don't think you need as much as 150g. 110g or so would be fine.

https://mennohenselmans.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

A lot of the studies showed no additional benefit above 0.64 g/lb, which would be ca. 110g for you.

But, steak and eggs Alf. Where’s the excuse for steak and eggs!?!

21-06-2021 02:31PM

new2tri19 wrote: »

On seated overhead press the instruction on the strong app was to unrack the bar behind the neck. So I was planning to do 40kg sets but the limiting factor was the unracking. I was too weak to lift that way . I know there's alternatives like standing or unrack and move forward on bench but is there some weakness I should be addressing ?
Should you be able to unrack your 5-9 rep max ohp from behind your neck?
Thanks

I just checked the app. It says behind the head, not the neck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBGeXxnigsQ

Alf Veedersane · 21-06-2021 02:35PM

Brian? wrote: »

But, steak and eggs Alf. Where’s the excuse for steak and eggs!?!

You do not need an excuse for steak and eggs.

If someone asks why you are eating steak and eggs you say "Because steak and eggs".

Brian? · 21-06-2021 02:37PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I just checked the app. It says behind the head, not the neck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBGeXxnigsQ

I object strongly to being the neck presses and pull ups. The risk/reward isn’t high enough on reward. They put your rotator cuffs in serious risk without being much better than a normal press.

I also don’t think people should press sitting down. Strict military press is a brilliant exercise.

Alf Veedersane · 21-06-2021 02:48PM

Brian? wrote: »

I object strongly to being the neck presses and pull ups. The risk/reward isn’t high enough on reward. They put your rotator cuffs in serious risk without being much better than a normal press.

I also don’t think people should press sitting down. Strict military press is a brilliant exercise.

I think it's just to indicate where the bar is in relation to you before you unrack it. I don't think it says to do BTN presses.

21-06-2021 02:50PM

Brian? wrote: »

I object strongly to being the neck presses and pull ups. The risk/reward isn’t high enough on reward. They put your rotator cuffs in serious risk without being much better than a normal press.

I also don’t think people should press sitting down. Strict military press is a brilliant exercise.

I got an image of him misreading and trying to start with it at neck level and had to post in case. Sounds dangerous.

Also love the strict military press. I did my first set of them at home today on the new rack I talked about a while back. Went for standard width but shorter sleeves. Dumbbells on the way.

He brought the wrong hook for the left side so will get that replaced. Apart from that, really happy for the equivalent of 500euro including 95kg of weights. Even came with fake Rogue stencils so you know it's quality.

new2tri19, I highly recommend Alan Thrall's video on OHP.

new2tri19 · 21-06-2021 03:02PM

Brian? wrote: »

Can you not up the portion sizes at each meal? It

I could I suppose but I already have significantly increased , I'd often not be hungry at all after protein shake and struggle to get porridge in. I went years not eating breakfast at all.
For lunch 2 eggs and 200ml of egg whites and 2 brown bread is a fairly full plate or a 110g can on tuna in a wrap with some salad again is fairly filling .
Dinner I'd take the bulk of the meat and eat the kids left overs rather than let it go to waste .

Sorry can't multi quote but thanks for the Skye yogurt idea I forgot about them and thanks also for suggesting 110g might be sufficient that would certainly be more manageable.

I'd like steak every night but the wife normally plans the meals and I don't want to be too awkward so will just eat what family are eating but take the bulk of meats .

new2tri19 · 21-06-2021 03:03PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I just checked the app. It says behind the head, not the neck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBGeXxnigsQ

That's similar to the position I found I had no power in but I was sitting like that without back support .

21-06-2021 03:34PM

new2tri19 wrote: »

That's similar to the position I found I had no power in but I was sitting like that without back support .

Unsupported sounds incredibly difficult.. I'm assuming that requires the strongest core out of any OHP. Before the barbell starts to unrack, you're basically pushing your upper body into your bench with the weight of your 5-9 rep max ohp, and it's behind you.

I'd look into supported, or even kneeling maybe, if your core can't stay rigid enough for the barbell to go upwards.

Brian? · 21-06-2021 04:58PM

new2tri19 wrote: »

That's similar to the position I found I had no power in but I was sitting like that without back support .

So you’re not pressing behind the neck?

Mars Bar · 21-06-2021 05:41PM

Brian? wrote: »

I object strongly to being the neck presses and pull ups. The risk/reward isn’t high enough on reward. They put your rotator cuffs in serious risk without being much better than a normal press.

I also don’t think people should press sitting down. Strict military press is a brilliant exercise.

and I went to a crossfit class where the coach had us doing behind the neck shoulder press. It was my first class (granted I'm pretty experienced and knew how ****ing dumb that was). I went extremely light but what a waste of a class. I had to go away to my own spot and not watch anyone else for fear of what I'd see.
Won't going to his class again...

new2tri19 · 21-06-2021 05:47PM

Brian? wrote: »

So you’re not pressing behind the neck?

No sorry I probably didn't explain it very well , I was doing a seated ohp on a flat bench , my starting position was pretty much like the still in that video above ( maybe I had my bar a bit lower . But I found it hard from that position to unrack the bar to bring it to the front of my chest to do standard seated ohp .

Black Sheep · 21-06-2021 05:54PM

I don't do behind the neck pressing either, but ... Behind the neck press, seated press, pin press, z-press.... They could all have their place for fixing sticking points, avoiding stagnation and perhaps in order to vary loading in your programming. Depends on the trainee. The conventional overhead press is the staple but I wouldn't dismiss the possibility of doing the others any more than I would dismiss bench variations like close grip bench, pin bench, fat grip bench, floor press etc. All depends.

Assuming no gross technical errors are being made, if the behind the neck presses just feel incredibly difficult with the weight you're shooting for, could be that you're not giving it its dues. It's a different movement from the standing pressing, and it's new to you, first thing is I would not base weights for the work sets off the standing overhead press. Start with the bar and work up from there.

There's always a bit of a learning curve with new movements too. If you're using a light weight then bear in mind it'll climb as you improve in your performance of that particular lift and its demands.

Cill94 · 21-06-2021 06:24PM

I don’t personally use btn press but I wouldn’t say its inherently dangerous. It will just require some verrryyy light weights for most people in the beginning. Preference would be standing OHP though.

Random Fitness Questions

Comments