Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

El_Duderino 09 · 18-06-2021 06:21AM

MadYaker wrote: »

Verstappen claimed in an interview that his team shared all their data with Pirelli.

I suppose they did, particularly if they were told to do so - I don't know ow how these investigations work. The might have been compelled to hard over the information. And they tested compliant before the race so they have nothing to fear. Pirelli said everyone tested compliant before the race.

The trick is to get the tyres to test compliant before the race, but drop pressure through one clever mechanism or another, without breaking the rules, so they run at lower pressure during the race (but obviously without the tyre failing, which it did in this race and in Silverstone last year).

El_Duderino 09 · 18-06-2021 06:24AM

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

Connections and contract aren't the same thing

He doesn't have a contract with his own management team? You're stretching a bit now. But that's OK. No idea why this seemed to matter so much to you anyway. It was a pretty trivial point. Well just have to wait and see how it pans out.

Frank Bullitt · 18-06-2021 04:49PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

He doesn't have a contract with his own management team? You're stretching a bit now. But that's OK. No idea why this seemed to matter so much to you anyway. It was a pretty trivial point. Well just have to wait and see how it pans out.

His manager is Toto, not Merc. Yes there are "connections", but that is not a contract to the Merc team. His contract for racing is with Alpine, how is that stretching?

flazio · 19-06-2021 07:35AM

Alex Albon is racing for Alpha Tauri this weekend....with Ferrari power...... in DTM.

https://twitter.com/AlphaTauriF1/status/1406152173185011714?s=09

weisses · 19-06-2021 12:35PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I suppose they did, particularly if they were told to do so - I don't know ow how these investigations work. The might have been compelled to hard over the information. And they tested compliant before the race so they have nothing to fear. Pirelli said everyone tested compliant before the race.

The trick is to get the tyres to test compliant before the race, but drop pressure through one clever mechanism or another, without breaking the rules, so they run at lower pressure during the race (but obviously without the tyre failing, which it did in this race and in Silverstone last year).

You cannot compare the situation in Silverstone with the incident in Baku ...

pjohnson · 19-06-2021 01:11PM

flazio wrote: »

Alex Albon is racing for Alpha Tauri this weekend....with Ferrari power...... in DTM.

https://twitter.com/AlphaTauriF1/status/1406152173185011714?s=09

Some will say Albon has a Ferrari contract

El_Duderino 09 · 19-06-2021 02:53PM

pjohnson wrote: »

Some will say Albon has a Ferrari contract

Has he a ferrari contract? Hadn't heard that.

El_Duderino 09 · 19-06-2021 02:54PM

weisses wrote: »

You cannot compare the situation in Silverstone with the incident in Baku ...

Why not?

El_Duderino 09 · 19-06-2021 02:56PM

quokula wrote: »

You seem to be making stuff up - there is zero evidence that either team didn’t comply with the recommended tyre pressures - in fact all evidence is to the contrary, that they did comply, and you’re just advancing a conspiracy theory that two completely different teams with completely different car designs somehow both magically got around the limits in a way nobody can prove or measure.

I have sympathy for Pirelli, it’s near impossible for them to make good tyres with the extreme testing limits and the seriously overweight unfit for purpose hybrid cars, but they have produced absolutely nothing to suggest the tyre failure was anyone else’s fault.

As a matter of interest, are you still calling the tyre pressure explanation of the tyre failure a "conspiracy theory"?

20-06-2021 05:00PM

flazio · 20-06-2021 09:15PM

Theory, if you told Christian and Toto that your team could only win the drivers or the constructors championship, Toto would let Max win the drivers championship if it meant Mercedes-Benz won the constructors and Christian would rather Max win the drivers race then Red Bull winning the constructors.

Harika · 20-06-2021 09:31PM

I would say the constructor's championship is something either takes en passent. Nice to have, driver championship is what has priority and in majority of cases both is won together. Without Google I won't be able to tell you when it happened.

TheQ_Man · 20-06-2021 09:34PM

Harika wrote: »

I would say the constructor's championship is something either takes en passent. Nice to have, driver championship is what has priority and in majority of cases both is won together. Without Google I won't be able to tell you when it happened.

2008 was the last time both weren’t won by the same team.

Drivers: McLaren
Constructors: Ferrari

Since then it’s been:

2009 Brawn
2010-13 Red Bull
2014- present Mercedes

Joeseph Balls · 20-06-2021 10:07PM

Harika wrote: »

I would say the constructor's championship is something either takes en passent. Nice to have, driver championship is what has priority and in majority of cases both is won together. Without Google I won't be able to tell you when it happened.

I always thought constructors is what the team wants as it's where the money is. I know 'usually' the drivers goes hand in hand with it, but if the question was posed to them, I would have thought constructors was the big one

20-06-2021 10:11PM

Joeseph Balls wrote: »

I always thought constructors is what the team wants as it's where the money is. I know 'usually' the drivers goes hand in hand with it, but if the question was posed to them, I would have thought constructors was the big one

They say that but now the prize money's been narrowed a good bit it's less so. Plus most of the publicity has always been about the drivers' championship.

BrentMused · 21-06-2021 09:46AM

Yesterday's French GP was only the 10th in F1 history without a single DNF! :eek:

21-06-2021 09:48AM

And 7 of them were in the last 10 years. The other 3 were Indianapolis 2005 (lol), Italy 2005 and Holland 1961

TheQ_Man · 21-06-2021 10:44AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And 7 of them were in the last 10 years. The other 3 were Indianapolis 2005 (lol), Italy 2005 and Holland 1961

Indianapolis? How the hell did they class that as having no retirements? Because most of the field withdrew after the formation lap?

21-06-2021 10:46AM

TheQ_Man wrote: »

Indianapolis? How the hell did they class that as having no retirements? Because most of the field withdrew after the formation lap?

Yeah 14 DNSes, no DNFs :P

donspeekinglesh · 21-06-2021 10:51AM

TheQ_Man wrote: »

Indianapolis? How the hell did they class that as having no retirements? Because most of the field withdrew after the formation lap?

If you don't take the start it's a DNS and not a DNF.

Although, for I'm guessing political reasons, they were sometimes recorded as DNF for that race.

Cool_CM · 21-06-2021 11:27AM

TheQ_Man wrote: »

Indianapolis? How the hell did they class that as having no retirements? Because most of the field withdrew after the formation lap?

Haha, that podium meme was made for Tiago Monteiro :pac:

21-06-2021 12:45PM

Cool_CM wrote: »

Haha, that podium meme was made for Tiago Monteiro :pac:

I knew I knew it from somewhere! :pac:

quokula · 21-06-2021 02:46PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The evidence for my "conspiracy theory" is growing, I've even got Hamilton here talking about it:
"As you know every weekend, whenever there is a failure, they always put the pressures up - so that tells you something," he said.

"More often than not, [it's] that the tyres are not being run at the pressures that are being asked. We didn't have a problem with our tyres".
Motorsport.com: Hamilton: Pirelli not to blame for Baku tyre blowouts.
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hamilton-pirelli-not-to-blame-for-baku-tyre-blowouts/6577971/amp/
Plus the fact that Pirelli's solution to the problem is to increase the recommended tyre pressure and another rooster said they're going to test the tyres when cold to control for temperature changes to tyre pressure.

"However, a swift response from the FIA to ramp up tyre pressure and temperature checks for this weekend's French Grand Prix, has offered answers about teams potentially trying to get around limits being a factor."

And here's Pirelli saying RB and AM wer running the tyres at low pressures during the race - but didn't break the rules because they complied with the checks at the start - isn't that exactly what I said?

"And while Pirelli confirmed that both Red Bull and Aston Martin had followed the regulations with the minimum starting pressures and maximum blanket temperatures, it says that things deviated from what it expected once the cars were running."

Motorsport.com: Pirelli: Red Bull and Aston Martin were running with lower pressures.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red-bull-and-aston-martin-were-running-with-lower-pressures-says-pirelli/6579071/amp/

Pirelli investigation into Pirelli finds in favour of Pirelli. What a shock. Still zero evidence. The fact that Hamilton is out spreading conspiracy theories against his rivals is hardly anything new - heck he even did it against his own team back when Rosberg was beating him, not to mention his history of deliberately lying to stewards in order to get people penalised.

There is still zero evidence that anyone wasn't running the required PSI. All data was provided by Aston Martin and Red Bull and it was all within the required parameters.

Pirelli upped the PSI requirement for the following race - that doesn't mean people were disobeying, in fact it implies quite the opposite, as there would be no point in changing the requirement if it wasn't being adhered to.

quokula · 21-06-2021 02:53PM

Harika wrote: »

I would say the constructor's championship is something either takes en passent. Nice to have, driver championship is what has priority and in majority of cases both is won together. Without Google I won't be able to tell you when it happened.

It's an interesting question. For an old fashioned pure F1 team like McLaren or Williams the constructors is probably more important. For a corporation like Mercedes or Red Bull who just use F1 as a marketing tool, the prestige of the driver's title is probably worth more.

If you look at the evidence, you'd have to say Merc are all-in on the drivers with their refusal to replace Bottas on the basis they don't want a repeat of having a second competitive driver like Rosberg, and prefer instead to have someone who's race they will happily completely sacrifice on a whim if there's any way he can help Lewis, whether it's using him as a tow truck in Baku, or as a mobile chicane in France.

Red Bull on the other hand have consistently been even handed with their two drivers for as long as I can remember, whoever those drivers have been. And they have little time for an underperforming second driver, showing no hesitation in replacing them if they think they can find someone who could give their faster driver a harder time. So from that POV you'd think Red Bull perhaps value the constructors more.

El_Duderino 09 · 21-06-2021 03:36PM

quokula wrote: »

Pirelli investigation into Pirelli finds in favour of Pirelli. What a shock. Still zero evidence. The fact that Hamilton is out spreading conspiracy theories against his rivals is hardly anything new - heck he even did it against his own team back when Rosberg was beating him, not to mention his history of deliberately lying to stewards in order to get people penalised.

There is still zero evidence that anyone wasn't running the required PSI. All data was provided by Aston Martin and Red Bull and it was all within the required parameters.

Pirelli upped the PSI requirement for the following race - that doesn't mean people were disobeying, in fact it implies quite the opposite, as there would be no point in changing the requirement if it wasn't being adhered to.

Lol. Now I think your in the realm of conspiracy theory at this stage. It was discussed all weekend, on the coverage I heard anyway, as being a case of cat and mouse. Teams work to test compliant and they run the pressures as low as possible subsequently in the race.

Not to worry. I don't expect you to admit you were wrong. It's not how these things work. Just checking you were still sticking to your guns even after the weekend. Thanks.

ElisaAtWar · 22-06-2021 12:09AM

I do love F1. So here is a daft question, but how come the likes of Audi, Lamborghini don't challenge in this area. I know both of these suppliers are very different but does F1 not have any attraction to them. And if so I would really like to understand why not

mickdw · 22-06-2021 12:19AM

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

I do love F1. So here is a daft question, but how come the likes of Audi, Lamborghini don't challenge in this area. I know both of these suppliers are very different but does F1 not have any attraction to them. And if so I would really like to understand why not

There was talk of it. I think the emissions scandal costs put it to bed for a few years.
I think you need to time your entry to f1 too.
The last 7 ir so years have been locked down solid by mercedes. Audi are not going to throw a billion at it only to be guaranteed to be behind mercedes. Hopefully, over the next few years we will see another german brand in f1.
Bmw came in and failed for the most part.
Toyota came and promised a championship - they achieved nothing and those 2 were years ago. Its even more impossible now to come and succeed.

flazio · 22-06-2021 04:47AM

These turbo hybrids are very complicated and expensive to develop from scratch. Remember Honda spent 3 years being very uncompetitive in the back of a McLaren before Toro Rosso took them on followed by Red Bull.

eviltimeban · 22-06-2021 08:58AM

BMW and Toyota just so happened to enter the sport when Ferrari and Schumacher were dominant - there wasn't much anyone could do to topple them.

I don't have the results at hand, but I remember BMW Williams doing pretty well with Montoya. Toyota had the money but they were never more than a midfield team (they needed a star driver).

But we're seeing now that big budgets etc don't make for race winning teams - Ferrari, McLaren, Renault are a case in point.

MadYaker · 22-06-2021 09:05AM

Do Alpine have a huge budget? I guess Alonso probably doesn't come cheap but I would've thought of them as one of the smaller teams.

Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

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